Busting the myth that gays can't change....

KomissarSteve · Jul 20, 2007

NeTrips said:
another ridiculous statement. By this standard, morality would be a moving target, it would change based on the players.

As it was considered moral in the days of the Old Testament to stone a disrespectful child to death, yet such an act would be considered exceedingly immoral nowadays, I think it should be pretty clear to anyone that morality is, indeed, a moving target. That's part of why God gave us minds capable of figuring out complicated moral arguments, instead of just being able to see in blacks and whites.

Beanieboy · Jul 20, 2007

NeTrips said:
good points.

(not to convey any negative connotations, judgement, or similarities below, just following this discussion)

since we have recovering addicts (those resisting the urge or temptation of whichever drug they were/are addicted to), is it possible to have recovering homosexuals (those resisting the urge or temptation of same sex activity/attraction)?

You logic is comparing a person physically addicted to alcohol, and someone who is simply attracted to the same sex.

Addiction is different than attraction.

Comparing the two is like saying, "Can't we have recovered ex-Christians just like we have ex-Smokers", deceitfully suggesting one thing that causes cancer, and one that is a religion.

Dishonest logic.

What you should compare are like things. Can there be a group that resists homosexual urges just like heterosexuals who resist the urge to have premarital sex?

Well, nuns and priests. Wait, just nuns. And then again...

Heterosexuals have sex before marriage even though they know that they can have it during their marriage, yet, you want to suggest for the homosexual to have a life of celibacy.

Yes, that is possible, but being a heterosexual that is sexually active, you are asking for far more than you yourself are ready to do.

I don't think most people choosing to be with someone they love who is of the same sex really care much what you think. Do you care what an atheists things about how you should stop going to church and believing in fairy tales?

Same idea. I'm gay, and even if there was a pill I could take tomorrow to "change" me, I wouldn't do it. This is who I am, and if someone has a problem with that, that's what it is - their problem.

NeTrips · Jul 20, 2007

I think they're into Liza now, but i'm not 100% yet

AuraTwilight · Jul 20, 2007

What are you talking about?

KomissarSteve · Jul 20, 2007

AuraTwilight said:
What are you talking about?

I think he's trying to make a ham-fisted stereotype.

AuraTwilight · Jul 20, 2007

If he is, it's the most incoherent stereotype I've ever seen.

selfinflikted · Jul 20, 2007

five said:
haha what? wow...

This is indicative of a gross misunderstanding of homosexuals. No biggie, most breeders have that same misunderstanding

flicka said:
By equating homosexuals to addicts of any sort you are basically admitting they can't change, but that you just want them to act different ....for your benefit.

I swear, you read my mind.

NeTrips said:
hey, relax for a second. your cohort made the claim that not quite 3% are capable of orientation change and i am taking her on her word. Please clarify for me, it appears you are calling her a liar now?

You're taking that quote out of context. SimplyMe's stance is basically the same as mine - those 3% are not exclusively homosexual. Reading comprehension ftw!

jayem said:
...BTW: Re. that 3% of homosexuals who reportedly did change...does that mean they no longer like Judy Garland, or Broadway musicals?

hehe

NeTrips said:
I think they're into Liza now, but i'm not 100% yet

ROFL! Man, you made a funny!

KomissarSteve said:
I think he's trying to make a ham-fisted stereotype.

regardless, it was funny as hell

PS I'm not into the usual stereotypical gay icons. I was never one of the "in" crowd anways...

MrPirate · Jul 20, 2007

NeTrips said:
hey, relax for a second. your cohort made the claim that not quite 3% are capable of orientation change and i am taking her on her word. Please clarify for me, it appears you are calling her a liar now?

With that 3% having its financial well being dependant on making the claim.

People will claim a lot of things if you pay them

MrPirate · Jul 20, 2007

NeTrips said:
refer to the OP

See http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36891542&postcount=20

MrPirate · Jul 20, 2007

NeTrips said:
that definition is ridiculous. By this ridiculous definition, anyone responsible for making a child unhappy has harmed them. There sure are going to be long lines at the candy counter if this definition is embraced. lol

straw man http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#straw

SimplyMe · Jul 20, 2007

NeTrips said:
hey, relax for a second. your cohort made the claim that not quite 3% are capable of orientation change and i am taking her on her word. Please clarify for me, it appears you are calling her a liar now?

Please don't try to speak for me, it only makes you look foolish. I find it amusing that you are so desperate to grasp for straws that you actually claim victory in a statement that claims 97% of homosexuals are incapable of change.

If a drug came out that had a 3% change of helping your children but over a 1 in 3 change of doing harm and possibly killing them, would you give your children that drug? There are reasons why drugs like that are banned, and the same reasons are what is the driving force behind the APA banning reparative therapy. And this is beyond the fact that there is no medical or psychological evidence to claim homosexuals need to change.

aspiringchef · Jul 21, 2007

My entire life I've been trying to figure out precisely what it is that I am, in every sense of the word, religiously, morally, orientation-wise and even gender, well that's not all accurate, I knew the gender thing just didn't want to deal with it, now I have a firm grasp on the others, but not the orientation. I've been attracted to men, dated, had sex with, fallen in love with, had my heart broken by. I have been in love with one women and very attracted to them also, but that is all thus far. I've went back and fourth and finally settled on, I don't know, I don't care, I could go either way, and it doesn't really matter.

Some people become so obsessed with having to identify one way or the other, gay or straight. Straight people assume me straight, insist I am etc. gay people say I'm really gay, etc. When it comes down to it, I can't make myself go any which way. I'd rather just be straight, easier, less troubles. But it's what it is, and no pill or therapy will change that. All the science in the world be danged.

Further more, who cares? Love you love, like who like, the end.

AuraTwilight · Jul 21, 2007

And that, my friend, is Pansexuality. Congrats.

Netbug009 · Jul 22, 2007

I was raised by a lesbian couple. Both converted to Christ, became just friends/roommates, and never had issues with lust for one another again. So yes, it is possible for a gay person to change.

rambot · Jul 22, 2007

I think there are people who CHOOSE to live a homosexual lifestyle for a variety of reasons. It is possible to "Change" them because being gay isn't necessarily "who they are" but "who they want to be seen as".

That said, there are a lot of people who are just, no going around it, attracted to people of the same sex.

You cannot change them. You C-a-n-n-o-t change them. You can only cause severe psychological damage.

IzzyPop · Jul 22, 2007

Netbug009 said:
I was raised by a lesbian couple. Both converted to Christ, became just friends/roommates, and never had issues with lust for one another again. So yes, it is possible for a gay person to change.

Did they join a church? It has been my experience that most churches that discourage homosexuality would have asked them to live separately.

AuraTwilight · Jul 22, 2007

I was raised by a lesbian couple. Both converted to Christ, became just friends/roommates, and never had issues with lust for one another again. So yes, it is possible for a gay person to change.

The two could've just been bisexuals who THOUGHT they were lesbians because they never found a guy they were attracted to.

Mumei · Jul 22, 2007

Netbug009 said:
I was raised by a lesbian couple. Both converted to Christ, became just friends/roommates, and never had issues with lust for one another again. So yes, it is possible for a gay person to change.

Lesbians are far less "exacting" in their sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is different for men than it is for women. Some women simply prefer other women emotionally, but their physical attraction is still geared towards men. They call themselves "lesbians," though it isn't strictly accurate.

Women have been known for some time to have more flexibility insofar as their sexual orientation than men do, who are much more exacting.

Robbie_James_Francis · Jul 22, 2007

Firstly, let me make it clear that I think this is totally wrong...

But let's say it was possible. What if someone didn't want to change? I'm sure I could change the colour of my skin if I wanted to, through some artificial means or other, but there's nothing wrong any skin colour, just as there's nothing wrong with being gay. So why bother changing?

Would it be easier to be straight? Sure. But that's not because there is something wrong with being gay, but becaue the homophobes (the ones that are wrong) make it hard.

So forget it...I'm not going anywhere and I'm not changing anything.

KomissarSteve · Jul 22, 2007

Netbug009 said:
I was raised by a lesbian couple. Both converted to Christ, became just friends/roommates, and never had issues with lust for one another again. So yes, it is possible for a gay person to change.

They did not change their sexual orientation. They simply stopped having sex, which is something that many lesbian couples are known to do after a few years anyway.

Busting the myth that gays can't change....

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