Burning of the Q'uoran, and Biblical perspectives...

[dbhost]

I am seeing something about a Church in Florida that wanted to hold a public Q'uoran burning on September 11th, for whatever reason I do not know. I am concerned, not so much with the sentiment that Christians are in spiritual war with the powers of darkness, and that darkness does include any false teachings about God. My concern was more with the manner in which that spiritual warfare is proposed to be conducted.

I have some serious doubts about the Biblical standing of this minister and his congregation in this regard. My doubt is based on Matthew 5:9

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."

Now I know there are some things that simply need to be stood up for, and strongly so. I just believe that the manner this is being done is as inflamatory as the site selection of that proposed Mosque within 2 blocks of ground zero in New York.

Is this minister right in what he proposed? If not, how should Christians deal with the darkness that Islam represents in the world? How do we reach out to the lost that are trapped in the world of Islam, and show them the love that God has for them too?

 

[onemorequestion]

I am seeing something about a Church in Florida that wanted to hold a public Q'uoran burning on September 11th, for whatever reason I do not know. I am concerned, not so much with the sentiment that Christians are in spiritual war with the powers of darkness, and that darkness does include any false teachings about God. My concern was more with the manner in which that spiritual warfare is proposed to be conducted.

I have some serious doubts about the Biblical standing of this minister and his congregation in this regard. My doubt is based on Matthew 5:9

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."

Now I know there are some things that simply need to be stood up for, and strongly so. I just believe that the manner this is being done is as inflamatory as the site selection of that proposed Mosque within 2 blocks of ground zero in New York.

Is this minister right in what he proposed? If not, how should Christians deal with the darkness that Islam represents in the world? How do we reach out to the lost that are trapped in the world of Islam, and show them the love that God has for them too?

They really shouldn't do this Koran burning thing "as Christians," but they are entitled to do it as free Americans.

 

[anopenhand]

Thank you onemorequestion, you have illustrated something important here. They are free to do as they wish, free will is a gift from the Lord. Morality is something that Christians must apply ourselves, it is up to us to know what is right and wrong for us to do. As a Christian, I feel his decision to burn their holy book is misguided. Matthew 5:9 is one of my favourite parts of the New Testament, as you will see by my signature. We must however also be careful not to judge others too harshly, remember to remove the log from your own eye before helping your brother with the speck in his. I pray that this American pastor will learn something from his actions, and that they will not result in any further hatred or unnecessary bloodshed. There are those that believe in the Lord differently than us, on this note Christians hardly present a united front in and of themselves, but the Lord gave them the free will to choose their way and only time will tell what comes of it. Personally, I'm just as likely to feed a hungry Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Atheist as I am a Christian, a fellow man is a fellow man. It is not my place to judge them, that is the place of the Lord.

 

[drich0150]

I am seeing something about a Church in Florida that wanted to hold a public Q'uoran burning on September 11th, for whatever reason I do not know. I am concerned, not so much with the sentiment that Christians are in spiritual war with the powers of darkness, and that darkness does include any false teachings about God. My concern was more with the manner in which that spiritual warfare is proposed to be conducted.

I have some serious doubts about the Biblical standing of this minister and his congregation in this regard. My doubt is based on Matthew 5:9

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."

Now I know there are some things that simply need to be stood up for, and strongly so. I just believe that the manner this is being done is as inflamatory as the site selection of that proposed Mosque within 2 blocks of ground zero in New York.

Is this minister right in what he proposed? If not, how should Christians deal with the darkness that Islam represents in the world? How do we reach out to the lost that are trapped in the world of Islam, and show them the love that God has for them too?

The "church" has called of the book burning. It was in protest to the ground zero mosque. Supposedly the pastor of that church is going to NY Monday to "talk things out" with whomever is in charge of the ground zero mosque. Their is alot of local speculation that has not made it to the news of death threats directed at the pastor and the burning of the church by out raged Muslims, as to the real reason the book burning has been called off.

 

[Zebra1552]

That is the dumbest idea I've ever seen. Ever. I mean, are they trying to give more fuel to the terrorists? And how Christian is it to intentionally tick people off?

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

I put it on my facebook "This pastor held the Quran HOSTAGE?!" *headdesk*
I'm against the quran burning because 1. Burning books never led to anything good 2. It's not some harry potter book, it is the religious scripture another group of people hold as the infallible word of God 3. Many muslims will willingly die and kill others because of this, so more than a suppository of spiritual belief will be destroyed: many innocent lives, including the lives of Christians, could be lost.
Think about it: Jesus and the apostles fought against the dark we face without resorting to demeaning another faith. In fact what I remember is they tended to be accepting of those who were considered outside of Judaism. Jesus talked to the woman at the well, he philosophized with a gentile woman, and told a roman centurion his faith was greater than many Jews. Jesus didn't condone their beliefs, but he did not offend them either. He accepted them as they were, where they were at in their walk with God, and eventually won them over (at least the woman at the well, and traditionally the roman centurion was the one who declared Jesus' godhead and eventually became one of the first converts).

 

[Voice in the Desert]

Did it ever occur to these seemingly short sighted people how many brothers and sisters in Christ will pay with their lives for their arrogant political statement?

 

[Phinehas2]

What the church needs ot focus on is to witness Christ, focus on Christ, not focus on the denial of Christ.
IF, they refrian, and this burning does not happen, and I pray it doesnt, a lot of good can come of this.
Appreciate how thousands of Christians (and other non-Muslims) in some Islamic countries cant even own a Bible, and many more can't read from it in public without persecution. Bible are confiscated and destroyed.
Yet as soon as one relatively small church wants to do the same with a Quran there is uproar.
Wake up, Jesus Christ is used as a curse word all the time, a cartoon appears of Mohammed and death threats abound. Is Islam a religion of peace?

 

[Phinehas2]

Did it ever occur to these seemingly short sighted people how many brothers and sisters in Christ will pay with their lives for their arrogant political statement?

Many have been paying for their lives for years without this happening.

 

[anopenhand]

Wake up, Jesus Christ is used as a curse word all the time, a cartoon appears of Mohammed and death threats abound. Is Islam a religion of peace?

This is seemingly a good question, but one Christians don't need to ask. Turn the other cheek and love your enemies. We should not be too hasty to judge them, in fact forget hastiness totally, we shouldn't judge them at all. Jesus taught that we should judge only ourselves, in all circumstances. As for how we should think of and behave toward those of other faiths, I remember reading something that Saint Francis of Assisi had said (I paraphrase), "preach with your feet." By this I take the following meaning in the context of this discussion; just live the gospel as best you can, and you will be a good example to non-Christians. Do not worry about if their faith is this or that. The city on a hill can not be hidden.

 

[Phinehas2]

anopenhand
Yes I agree with you that’s basically what I also said, the focus for the church needs to be on Christ. My point was really for the non-Christian world who when presented with this story may be unaware that Bibles are restricted, confiscated or destroyed in Islamic all the time. No need to make a fuss.

 

[onemorequestion]

Did it ever occur to these seemingly short sighted people how many brothers and sisters in Christ will pay with their lives for their arrogant political statement?

Have you ever considered to hold guilty the persecutors and murderers of Christians?

Burning a book is not harming anyone.

I'm not for it, but it is simply ridiculoius to look the other way at the reactions TO the Pastor and what he can do in a free society.

 

[onemorequestion]

anopenhand
Yes I agree with you that’s basically what I also said, the focus for the church needs to be on Christ. My point was really for the non-Christian world who when presented with this story may be unaware that Bibles are restricted, confiscated or destroyed in Islamic all the time. No need to make a fuss.

There needs to be a fuus.

Why is this so ignored the world over?

And why isn't the Imam Rauf speaking out against this intolerance?????

 

[DamianWarS]

Anyone can burn the Q'uoran and certainly American Christians can easily find excuses to do so. One could even say they deserve to have moments like these and no one can blame them for their behavior.

However we are not just another organization or another religion. As the church we are the body of Christ. We are his extension into the world and we impact people through Jesus Christ. Certainlty God interacts with the people without the churches involvement however there is a close relationship with the church and the actions of God; It is what the church is designed for.

The church as a body should always strive to achieve the love of Christ through all its actions and burning the Q'uoran will not achieve this. It will only add fuel to the proverbial fire (or literal). In the same way the people who make up the body of Christ should also act in the same way. Corporately and individually.

The question I ask is if we start burning the Q'uoran then where does it stop? The nazi's burned books that did not conform to Nazi ideology. And we look at that waging our fingers seeing how evil and arrogant that act was. Why do we expect to be treated any different? Burning books is as much of spiritual warfare as actually wielding the bible as a literal sword is. These books are just paper, ink and bindings. They themselves have no special powers and the destruction of them will destroy nothing but the book itself. The impact it will have on people will only hurt them or stir up more anger. If the church wants to focus on spiritual warfare then they should try and attack the spiritual not the physical.

 

[Archivist]

Anyone can burn the Q'uoran and certainly American Christians can easily find excuses to do so. One could even say they deserve to have moments like these and no one can blame them for their behavior.

However we are not just another organization or another religion. As the church we are the body of Christ. We are his extension into the world and we impact people through Jesus Christ. Certainlty God interacts with the people without the churches involvement however there is a close relationship with the church and the actions of God; It is what the church is designed for.

The church as a body should always strive to achieve the love of Christ through all its actions and burning the Q'uoran will not achieve this. It will only add fuel to the proverbial fire (or literal). In the same way the people who make up the body of Christ should also act in the same way. Corporately and individually.

The question I ask is if we start burning the Q'uoran then where does it stop? The nazi's burned books that did not conform to Nazi ideology. And we look at that waging our fingers seeing how evil and arrogant that act was. Why do we expect to be treated any different? Burning books is as much of spiritual warfare as actually wielding the bible as a literal sword is. These books are just paper, ink and bindings. They themselves have no special powers and the destruction of them will destroy nothing but the book itself. The impact it will have on people will only hurt them or stir up more anger. If the church wants to focus on spiritual warfare then they should try and attack the spiritual not the physical.

Very well said! Last summer I visited the Bebelplatz square in Berlin, where the Nazi book burnings occurred in 1933. There is a plaque there now that says “Where books are burned in the end people will burn.”

Nobody disagrees that this Florida pastor has the Constitutional right to burn the Q'uoran. However, having the right to do something doesn't mean that one should do it, particularly when our commander in Afghanistan has said that this action could put US and NATO soldiers at risk.

 

[Phinehas2]

I think we have all agreed it isnt the right thing to do. Lets pray for all those Christians who are persecuted for owning Bibles... and all those who would like Bibles who cant get hold of them.

 

[DamianWarS]

... having the right to do something doesn't mean that one should do it ...

1 Cor. 6:12
Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything.

Meaning just because you are legally allowed to do something or have the physically ability doesn't mean you should do it. We are not slaves to every whim and irrational movement out there.

 

[Zebra1552]

What the church needs ot focus on is to witness Christ, focus on Christ, not focus on the denial of Christ.
IF, they refrian, and this burning does not happen, and I pray it doesnt, a lot of good can come of this.
Appreciate how thousands of Christians (and other non-Muslims) in some Islamic countries cant even own a Bible, and many more can't read from it in public without persecution. Bible are confiscated and destroyed.
Yet as soon as one relatively small church wants to do the same with a Quran there is uproar.
Wake up, Jesus Christ is used as a curse word all the time, a cartoon appears of Mohammed and death threats abound. Is Islam a religion of peace?

So what, that means we do the same to them? Two wrongs don't make it right. Islam as a whole is generally peaceful, except for the few sects, just like in Christianity, that disagree with the Quran's message and take it to the extreme. What about the Christians who murder doctors, picket funerals? What about the Crusades? Christianity hasn't always had a peaceful past either. So what gives you the right to rip on other religions just because of the actions of its followers? If what the followers do is representative of the religion, then Christianity is seriously messed up.

This isn't about Christian persecution. This is about what is right and wrong in regards to how we treat other people.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

SMH...only God knows why this person think it's a smart idea to do such a thing.
It would be cool though if this guy, instead of burning the Quran, have all ears on him and preach the word of God to all those who turn in to see if he'll do it. That would be awesome. He should start off as "Blessed are the peacemakers..."

 

[Phinehas2]

Jaws13,

So what, that means we do the same to them? Two wrongs don't make it right.

I know, that’s what I said, it is the wrong motive to burn the books.

Islam as a whole is generally peaceful, except for the few sects, just like in Christianity, that disagree with the Quran's message and take it to the extreme.

On the contrary I have argued through the Quran, Haddith and Islamic history show it isnt peaceful. Is it your opinion against the evidence; what is you’re the reasoning behind your claim? By the way, do you see almost weekly occurrences of suicide bombs let off all over the world in the name of Christ? Do you see Muslims arrested and imprisoned for owning a Quran in the west where Christians are often arrested for owning a Bible? Could Christians build a mega church in Mecca? On what do you base your view?

What about the Christians who murder doctors, picket funerals? What about the Crusades?

Again I judge people’s actions as to whether they adhere to what they claim. Ghandi noticed a difference between what Christ taught and what many Christians did. And, what about the crusades, did Muslims not occupy Jerusalem, did Muslims not also kill and fight? And who you call Chistians dont picket all funerals, they picket funerals of people who lived homosexual lifestyles, look at how Islam treats homosexuals!!


Its not my argument, my argument is based on looking at what Christ taught and look at what Mohammed taught.

So what gives you the right to rip on other religions just because of the actions of its followers?

I don’t. I don’t look at the followrs to judge the religion, I look at what they say they are following.

If what the followers do is representative of the religion, then Christianity is seriously messed up.

I would say in the cases you mention its not Christianity.

This isn't about Christian persecution. This is about what is right and wrong in regards to how we treat other people.

So you agree it is bad to burn someone’s else treasured Quran and refuse them specific places to build their mosque but its more serious to prohibit others owning a Bible arrest them and worse, and slay unbelievers? Yes?