Burning heretics

[Occams Barber]

Agreed, one of the Ten Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Murder. Now, for those of you who think capital punishment is permissible, do you really think that God approves of burning people because they believe the wrong thing?

Murder, by definition, is unlawful premeditated killing.

Since executing heretics was, at one time, allowable under law, it was not murder. At the same time executing heretics was not considered an immoral act. It appears that there was a time when God approved of burning people.

Both the law and Christian morality have changed with time and culture.
OB

 

[Basil the Great]

Murder, by definition, is unlawful premeditated killing.

Since executing heretics was, at one time, allowable under law, it was not murder. At the same time executing heretics was not considered an immoral act. It appears that there was a time when God approved of burning people.

Both the law and Christian morality have changed with time and culture.
OB

Some of us would call capital punishment "state sanctioned murder", especially when not necessary to protect society from physical harm.

 

[Occams Barber]

Some of us would call capital punishment "state sanctioned murder", especially when not necessary to protect society from physical harm.

I'm happy to agree with you that capital punishment can be described as 'state sanctioned murder' (despite it being an oxymoron).

This doesn't change the fact that burning heretics was, at one time, both legally and morally acceptable to Christians. Since Christians no longer accept burning heretics as morally (or legally) acceptable we have a situation where Christian morality has demonstrably (and drastically) changed.
OB

 

[Sam91]

I'm happy to agree with you that capital punishment can be described as 'state sanctioned murder' (despite it being an oxymoron).

This doesn't change the fact that burning heretics was, at one time, both legally and morally acceptable to Christians. Since Christians no longer accept burning heretics as morally (or legally) acceptable we have a situation where Christian morality has demonstrably (and drastically) changed.
OB

The NT tends to go against it. Where does it say outwith the Torah to slay a heretic?

 

[Desk trauma]

Where does it say outwith the Torah to slay a heretic?

Deuteronomy 13

 

[Occams Barber]

The NT tends to go against it. Where does it say outwith the Torah to slay a heretic?

I have no idea, although indiscriminate slaying does appear to be feature of the OT.

I base my view of what is morally acceptable to Christianity on what Christianity says is morally acceptable. If Christianity said that burning heretics was morally acceptable, who am I to argue?
OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Deuteronomy 13

Thanks DT

OB

 

[paul1149]

Servetus wasn't "merely" burned at the stake, he, like many others, was slow-roasted. Calvin apparently fully approved.

This is what happens when church and state get too close. Someone above conflated capital punishment with the murdering of heretics. That is a false association. The state bears the sword and has the authority to employ capital punishment in pursuit of justice. The church neither bears the sword nor has the right to kill for justice' sake (as distinguished from self-defense, a right which the Christian has but can surrender). When the church takes upon itself the sword, or gets in bed with the state and uses its illicit lover to bear the sword for its purposes, great woe will ensue and many may be stumbled.

Christian history is deeply marred by repeated episodes of the church killing for doctrinal reasons. The Cathars, the Waldenses, the Huguenots, the Hussites, etc, etc. Paul Johnson writes in his amazing History of Christianity that to this day the oath of office of RC bishops includes the promise to "persecute heretics".

Not infrequently I think people come to Christ despite the church.

 

[SkyWriting]

On this day (October 27) in 1553, Michael Servetus was burned at the stake in Geneva for spreading heretical beliefs concerning the Trinity.

Michael Servetus - Wikipedia

I cannot make sense of executing others for heretical beliefs. But, for better or worse, Christians have done just that. It seems to me, if it is wrong to execute heretics today, then it was wrong to do so in the past. But, some might disagree.

How did you vote and why?

I am a heretic. But even if I wasn't
I'd still treat others as I would want
them to treat me.

 

[timothyu]

It appears that there was a time when God approved of burning people.

Are you equating God with religion?

 

[charsan]

I voted at one time it was now it is not. God has instituted the State for the death penalty Romans 13:3-4

 

[timothyu]

The church neither bears the sword nor has the right to kill for justice' sake (as distinguished from self-defense, a right which the Christian has but can surrender). When the church takes upon itself the sword, or gets in bed with the state and uses its illicit lover to bear the sword for its purposes, great woe will ensue and many may be stumbled.

Yes, and we see examples of that with the Pharisees and Rome or how the Church furthered it's power with and after Constantine. Classic examples of building a kingdom in their own image based on human tradition rather than following the Kingdom of God

 

[timothyu]

Not infrequently I think people come to Christ despite the church.

That was the whole idea. Set hypocrisy front and center and see who can separate Kingdom from world of man.

 

[Sam91]

Thanks DT

OB

Deuteronomy is in the Torah.

 

[Sam91]

Deuteronomy 13

That is in the Torah.

 

[Desk trauma]

That is in the Torah.

Yes.

 

[zippy2006]

On this day (October 27) in 1553, Michael Servetus was burned at the stake in Geneva for spreading heretical beliefs concerning the Trinity.

Michael Servetus - Wikipedia

I cannot make sense of executing others for heretical beliefs. But, for better or worse, Christians have done just that. It seems to me, if it is wrong to execute heretics today, then it was wrong to do so in the past. But, some might disagree.

How did you vote and why?

Is it acceptable to execute traitors? The UK abolished the death penalty for treason in 1998.

 

[keith99]

I'm happy to agree with you that capital punishment can be described as 'state sanctioned murder' (despite it being an oxymoron).

This doesn't change the fact that burning heretics was, at one time, both legally and morally acceptable to Christians. Since Christians no longer accept burning heretics as morally (or legally) acceptable we have a situation where Christian morality has demonstrably (and drastically) changed.
OB

Including the horrible crime of translating Scripture into the Vulgar tongue! It would seem a few hundred years ago God did not want the common man to read the Bible!

 

[timothyu]

It would seem a few hundred years ago God did not want the common man to read the Bible!

Never did get a copy of that finger of God written memo.

 

[Occams Barber]

Are you equating God with religion?

To the extent that God reflects the values of His followers - yes.

Remember I'm an atheist. For me, man created God - not the other way round.
OB