Burning heretics

[public hermit]

So why all the back and forth change over time if its absolute. I mean, "absolute" is pretty strong. Should be like 2+2=4.

That's a good question. I would say human desires and fears obstruct an accurate perception of what is truly good. Why burn a heretic? Isn't it fear that what the heretic is saying or teaching will mislead people? Isn't it the desire for control that lurks behind lighting the heretic on fire? If we are afraid enough, or if our desire is strong enough, we can justify virtually anything. It is the common human failing that we are too often driven by desire and fear and not the truth.

 

[timothyu]

Isn't it fear that what the heretic is saying or teaching will mislead people?

More often it will make people think thus threatening the powerful. Think Jesus and the priests. Nothing changed.

 

[klutedavid]

Was Jesus' teachings a doctrine?

The bulk of His teaching is doctrine of course.

How would you interpret the following.

Matthew 5:31-32
It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

 

[timothyu]

The bulk of His teaching is doctrine of course.

Is doctrine now yes but can the original be called doctrine?

How would you interpret the following.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't

 

[Dave-W]

We are baptized with fire.

Matthew 3:11
As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Is our flesh then dead in that baptism of fire?

Luke 3:16
John answered and said to them all, “As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

A baptism of fire.

1 Peter 4:12
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you.

Are we destroyed?

Do you even know what the baptism of fire is?

 

[Dave-W]

The bulk of His teaching is doctrine of course.

That is like saying most things that are blue are blue.

The word "doctrine" means teaching.

 

[KarlKarlingIII]

That's a good question. I would say human desires and fears obstruct an accurate perception of what is truly good. Why burn a heretic? Isn't it fear that what the heretic is saying or teaching will mislead people? Isn't it the desire for control that lurks behind lighting the heretic on fire? If we are afraid enough, or if our desire is strong enough, we can justify virtually anything. It is the common human failing that we are too often driven by desire and fear and not the truth.

Capital punishment today is tainted by the secular killing machines of the French and Bolshevik Revolutions, but when it occurred in the Old Testament it was justified through the argument that God has a right to kill. Moses killed people. The prophet Isaiah basically went to his countrymen and told them God is going to send Assyria to kill them unless they repent. We have to understand the mentality of medieval Europe, the idea that the King - that Caesar - is God's lieutenant on earth, God's anointed minister of justice and tutor of morality through violence. This fellow has an interesting article on it: Fr. John Whiteford. The Death Penalty

Having said that, I believe Roman Catholics (and Protestants) made mistakes in burning each other. We have to remember though, gentlemen, that mob violence was often masked under the veil of religious outrage when it was a rather sinful bloodlust that justified these burnings - nothing to do with Christianity at all.

 

[klutedavid]

That is like saying most things that are blue are blue.

The word "doctrine" means teaching.

A doctrine is a truth statement, a primary and important statement of truth.

The death and resurrection of the Christ is a doctrine and Paul claims that this is the first and most important doctrine.

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day.

That is a truth statement a doctrine.

A teaching itself could be unimportant or only applicable to a church or group of people in history.

 

[klutedavid]

Do you even know what the baptism of fire is?

Yes, it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave-W]

A doctrine is a truth statement, a primary and important statement of truth.

No - that is NOT the meaning of the word. It simply is another word for teaching.

Look it up in an old dictionary.

 

[Dave-W]

Yes, it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

No - it is a separate baptism. One of purging out flesh and sinful actions and desires.

There are 7 distinct baptisms mentioned in the NT. Fire is one of them.
Fire is fairly similar to the baptism of suffering.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Definitely not.

You might want to reconsider your reply based on what happens to those that worship the beast in the book of revelation.

In the end it is a matter of worship

Worship the GOD of Creation and have eternal life

Worship the beast and be cast into the lake of fire

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Agreed, one of the Ten Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Murder. Now, for those of you who think capital punishment is permissible, do you really think that God approves of burning people because they believe the wrong thing?

You might want to reconsider your post based on what happens to those that worship the beast in the book of revelation.

In the end it is a matter of worship

Worship the GOD of Creation and have eternal life

Worship the beast and be cast into the lake of fire

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The idea that the Church didn't want the Bible translated into local languages in order to keep people from reading it is a myth you'd do well not to continue spreading.

Did the Catholic Church Try to Suppress the Bible ...
shamelesspopery.com/did-the-catholic-church-try-to-suppress-the-bible/
To keep people from comparing Church teachings to the Bible, the Church required all Bibles to be in Latin. It wasn't until Luther that the Bible was translated into the common language. Even after this, those who tried to get Bibles into the hands of ordinary people (or in ordinary language) were burnt at the stake.

Why Christians Were Denied Access to Their Bible for 1,000 Years | HuffPost
Bernard Starr, Contributor
College Professor (Emeritus, City University of N.Y),psychologist, journalist.

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): “We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.”

Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned...”

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to “...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ’s sentence.” For this “heresy” Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council’s decree “Wycliffe’s bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River.”

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

 

[Robban]

Aye, Holy spirit -and- fire.

The fire of an altar burning up the ego inside.

Bringing the animal close to the divine.

No - it is a separate baptism. One of purging out flesh and sinful actions and desires.

There are 7 distinct baptisms mentioned in the NT. Fire is one of them.
Fire is fairly similar to the baptism of suffering.

 

[Sketcher]

You might want to reconsider your reply based on what happens to those that worship the beast in the book of revelation.

In the end it is a matter of worship

Worship the GOD of Creation and have eternal life

Worship the beast and be cast into the lake of fire

Yeah, God is going to cast all unbelievers into the Lake of Fire. That doesn't mean believers should burn them at the stake.

 

[durangodawood]

Yeah, God is going to cast all unbelievers into the Lake of Fire....

Maybe. Or perhaps its a coercive downside-maximizing tale told to keep people in line.

 

[durangodawood]

Yeah, God is going to cast all unbelievers into the Lake of Fire. That doesn't mean believers should burn them at the stake.

Believers probably should kill anyone who might lead others to the lake of fire tho. Kill them in a humane way tho. Not burning.... although the deterrent factor of such a horror might have some value.

 

[coffee4u]

Why is the poll closed? I only just saw it. My vote is no, it's is never acceptable.

Believers probably should kill anyone who might lead others to the lake of fire tho. Kill them in a humane way tho. Not burning.... although the deterrent factor of such a horror might have some value.

That would be committing murder.

Romans 12:99 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbour as yourself."

 

[Quackduck]

No one should be executed for their beliefs. One person's heretic is another person's sage.