Building a low-cost, extensibly powerful computer

[Qyöt27]

Ok, I'm backpedaling a little on my comment from my thread about upgrading RAM that if I get a desktop it'll need to be super-powerful. Reason being, is that I want to try my hand at actually knowing how to build one first, and would prefer if I can get substantial usage out of it and could easily be quite powerful after a few upgrades (because I doubt I can get all the really nice components immediately, but incrementally). It does need to be initially low-cost, though.

I was looking around Newegg for prices, and I think I've got some good options in front of me. I figure I should run it by someone else first, though, so here we go:

Intel BOXDG43GT LGA 775 Intel G43 HDMI Micro ATX Motherboard, 86.99

• This mobo looks appealing to me because of a couple things - it supports Core 2 Quad, Core 2 Duo, and Pentium, so I have quite a few options. It also can take a maximum of 16 GBs of RAM (DDR2 667 or 800). Lastly, it's a Micro ATX board, and want to make sure the case I put it in has plenty of room for the optical and hard drives.

One of these CPUs:
Core 2 Quad Q8400 Yorkfield 2.66GHz 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor, 169.99
or
Core 2 Duo E7500 Wolfdale 2.93GHz 3MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor, 119.99
or
Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor, 64.50

• That Pentium is very nicely priced, but I know that I would be sacrificing performance, and I would hit a ceiling there. I would like to get the Q8400, as it seems like it has the most potential for my future upgrading plans (which pretty much just centers on the RAM). In a pinch, though, I would probably be happy with the E7500 (and it has a leg-up on the Pentium in that while both are Wolfdale-based, the E7500 has more L2 Cache and probably some other enhancements that might suit my needs better).

The RAM:
Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model KVR800D2N6/4G, 144.99
or
Kingston ValueRAM 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory Model KVR667D2N5/2G, 47.99

• For this one, I'm divided. It would be great for me to afford the 4GB stick of DDR2 800 (especially since 4 of them would max out the RAM on the board spec-wise, and they're 800), but the price is kind of off-putting. The 2GB sticks are more economical, though, and would meet the listed minimum RAM requirement for Win7 64-bit, but I'd end up having to replace it to bring the system up to 16GB, making it more expensive in the long run (especially so if I decide I'm better off going with 2 sticks instead of 1).
• The motherboard supports Dual Channel RAM. Does this mean I can only use paired sticks, or can it support solitary sticks?
• Before settling on these options, I checked the memory configuration page on Kingston's website, so I know these sticks will actually work with that board.

And finally, a case. On this one I'm totally knowledge-less, but would prefer one $50 or less if possible. I figure the case would be one of or the first purchase I make, so I have a place to even put the other components as I get them. I'm hoping that what I'm planning doesn't need special cooling setups (especially as those CPUs come with an included fan and heatsink), and I did see that some under-$50 cases come with a power supply. It's just a question of whether that power supply is enough for the components, and if the case can be used for a Micro-ATX board while still giving me ample breathing room (sure, the really tiny HTPC cases look snazzy, but they aren't very practical and probably a cooling and maintenance nightmare).

The optical drives, HDDs, and peripherals are more of a secondary thing, as I could manage with the ones I have - I am considering a Blu-ray reader for the new setup, though (Blu-ray writer is out of the question until the discs themselves get to a reasonable price; BD-ROM is all I'll need at the moment). I can pick up an LG BD-ROM and DVD burner combo drive for 89.99, or I could get a LiteON BD/DVD/CD-ROM drive that really is ROM-only, and a second Samsung PATA DVD burning drive, which would come to 81.99. As the mobo supports HDMI, the BDROM drive should be ok to interwork with it, I'd assume. In addition to 4 SATA ports, the mobo also has 1 PATA cable that I could use to hook up both an existing hard drive I have and the Samsung burner. Or at least, I could make due with one of the HDDs I have now, and not have any optical drives in this thing until I have the ability to buy one (and a SATA-enabled HDD). The same thing goes with a video card vs. the onboard - I'm not into high-performance gaming, and any boost I might get for video decoding from being able to use DXVA, CUDA, or VDPAU (as I prefer to stick to NVIDIA because of my Linux needs) isn't worth the price of the cards themselves and the budget I'd need to work inside. I can add a graphics card later.

Which also brings up another issue - this comp would partially be serving video duty, so I really want to know if (or what configuration of) the above hardware pieces can support smooth 1080p H.264 playback with ffdshow (64-bit builds, with the ffmpeg-mt option enabled, anyway), whether that's 1080p from Blu-ray or the much more optimized 1080p encodes I'd be doing with x264 using heftier High Profile features. I have no interest in using CoreAVC or DivX 7, especially as I use ffdshow for practically all my other format decoding needs in the first place, and because ffdshow tends to incorporate fixes for or not be affected by issues that crop up in x264's continuous improvements (there was a big deal recently about Weighted P-prediction, wherein if --weightp 2 was used, ffdshow and most other hardware and software decoders could play the files fine, but it was a garbled mess in CoreAVC 1.9.5; the issue was fixed in 2.0, but who knows how many other times issues like that have happened or are prone to happening). If it's not quite there, I do know how to convert the files to my liking and bring them within range - I'd just prefer not having to do that.


If I wanted to get the absolute lowest working profile there, I could look to be spending about $250 (That's with the Pentium and a single 2GB stick of RAM). If I want to go the Core 2 Quad route, then I'll be looking at a base value of around $460 ($580 if I decide to throw in a new PATA HDD and the two optical drive option). If I get the Quad, I'll very likely also go for the 4GB stick; if I went and put the full 16GB in there with the rest of the pieces I mentioned on the high end and a 500GB SATA HDD, then the cost inflates to just over $1,050, give or take taxes. And of course, all these prices are pre-shipping, if free shipping isn't an option. I'm just meandering into a rut trying to sort all of this out in my brain. And for all I know, when I am able to get the income to do this, the prices for even the fancier parts may have dropped to much more affordable levels (or for the same prices I'm considering now, I could get a motherboard that supports DDR3 1333 or higher RAM and a Core i-series processor with obscene amounts of L2 and L3 cache, and said DDR3 1333 will have come down in price as well).

Of course, suggestions that differ from those parts are welcome, but the three biggest concerns are that

• A) it needs to have upward potential in its configuration (which means the CPU I buy is sufficient, and won't need to upgrade it later),
• B) inexpensive, and
• C) not require anything more than the included fans/heatsinks that the CPU and power supply have.

 

[LeightonH]

Have you considered the The Athlon II X4 620?

It's not the most powerful processor out there, but it is a quad core for less than a hundred dollars and the motherboard is socket AM3 compatible, which is still fairly early in it's life cycle. I put together a gaming rig at newegg.ca for 750 dollars Canadian including 4gb DDR2 ram, Radeon 5770 1 GB, 1.5 TB hdd etc. I'm sure the prices in the States are comparable.

I was going to link you to the parts, but I'm a newbie and I guess I need fifty posts.

 

[Qyöt27]

I don't really know. I do know that the Core 2 Quad I'm considering has double the amount of L2 Cache that the Athlon II X4 620 does. That and being able to put in 16GBs of RAM.

What matters to me really isn't just the number of cores; that's only one factor. The all-around throughput and stability is what I care about. Are there any comparisons about that have been done between them? I know that one test regarding x264 (which I do use because of my video editing hobby) showed that AMD's chips were only able to outperform Intel's lower-end or near-end-of-life ones, but I don't remember how long ago that comparison was, which exact chips were being compared, or even where it was that I found it.

Another point is simply that I have some momentum from Intel - my current computer has a Celeron in it (Coppermine-128, to be exact), and especially considering its age, still performs great; two of the other computers in the house have Core chips in them - my parents' iMac has a Core Duo, unsure of the model, my mom's HP laptop has a Core 2 Duo T5450. The laptop definitely has the level of power I'd be happy with, which is fine because it appears that even the $65 Pentium I was looking at is at least twice at powerful as that one is. I would prefer to have one that's more performance related, though.

The two Athlon-based computers I have access to have more mixed results - one of them gets so hot you could toast bread on it, and while the other one is much newer and I was even able to test out the 64-bit version of Ubuntu on it, the rest of the hardware bottlenecks it horribly (to the point I saw a massive performance boost going from 32-bit XP to 64-bit Ubuntu, much more than simply switching between 32-bit versions of said OSes would). The thing's got an Orleans core, I think 667MHz front side bus, and 512 MB of RAM - least I think it was 512; Windows keeps reporting 448, but I distinctly remember something telling me 512.

 

[LeightonH]

I've had four AMDs and never had any heat or reliability problems even when overclocking 10 to 15 percent with stock coolers, mind you they are all older single cores. If absolute minimum cost isn't a concern for you though, than maybe you would be better off with Intel, especially if video processing is your main concern. AMDs are little stronger for the price when 3d performance is more important.

 

[Sketcher]

Why are you going with a dead socket? You can get a M-ATX, LGA 1156-based mobo for a hundred or less. The H5x boards generally could use some BIOS updates, but they're a better long-term investment. Here's a bit of a roundup.

For RAM, I always recommend dual-channel. You can use solitary sticks with dual-channel mobos, but you won't get that extra little speed boost. Besides, with the RAM you picked, it's three times the cost. The way RAM is sold, you're better off going dual channel now, and dual channel again later. Besides, that frees up more money now that can go into your case, mobo, or processor.

I'm not all that well versed on the HD playback quality of integrated chipsets. But the good news is you can upgrade to a discrete graphics card, which I suspect you'll wind up doing anyway since you're a power user.

With cases, unless you get a ridiculous deal, you can count on paying an extra $25 for the shipping. Might as well look locally rather than just online. Don't automatically discount cases that come with power supplies - they're costing less than a lot of cases without them. In which case, you have a spare power supply to use, sell, whatever. What matters is that you're getting a good case. The best way to get a good idea of that is to start reading reviews. Besides, since you want to try your hand at building, you'll pick up some useful tidbits.

 

[CharlesFreck]

If you're going to go with an Intel processor I'd get at least an 1156 motherboard. Right now Micro Center has a Gigabyte 1156 motherboard for $99 and you could get a Core i5 750 (quad core) processor to go with it for $190. Personally I'd spend a bit more on the motherboard and get a nicer one, but if you go with that combo you'll have something that's more up to date and performs well for less than $300.

I'm an AMD guy, so I'm going to have to at least suggest an AM3 motherboard and Phenom II X4 955 processor. You can get that combo for about $240.

I'd go with DDR3 RAM now. The prices have dropped, and it will be even cheaper in the future. It's not a huge boost performance wise, but it is slightly better.

Antec makes good cases. They'll keep your PC cool, and you can probably find a suitable one on Newegg for about $50-60.

If you want to playback in 1080p you'll probably want a discrete video card. Pretty much any low end card will do for what you want, but if you spend a little more you could do some gaming on it as well. I guess an ATI 4650 would do well for video playback, and you might even be able to get by with a 3650.

It's very important to get a decent power supply. For what you're doing you won't need a real high wattage PSU, (probably about 400 Watts, but you might want to be safe and go with 500) but if you don't get a well built one it could fail and ruin your other expensive components. Corsair makes the best power supplies, but they tend to be expensive. I have an OCZ PSU that's worked pretty well for me. You can get one for about $60.