Buddhism in a Nutshell

[Rising_Suns]

that wasn't my quote... so.. i'm not really sure what to say

yes my response was not directed at you. I worded that poorly.

my tradition of Christianity was protestant and i'm sure that it colors my christian thinking

Ah hah!

 

[vajradhara]

I thank you for your kind response. You do your belief well!! I still have some questions; but I will start with this..

Buddhism is about one thing and one thing only... suffering and the ending of suffering. that's it. and yes, one must do the work oneself to end ones suffering. this isn't "salvation" as is commonly understood in the theistic traditions... though it can have a "salve" effect on a person, i.e. soothing their injuries.

What is the work required to end ones suffering. Is it an end of suffering here on earth or in eternity. And to obtain Nirvana, is it?, what must one do??

Thank you for your time.

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!!

Namaste Isaiah,

i'm a very poor excuse for a Buddhist.. but thank you for the compliment.

it's an end to suffering here and for eternity, though that is beyond my ability to cognize.... and not just for oneself alone.. for all sentient beings. the "work" is the systematic practices that have been laid out in any of the Three Turnings of the Wheel of Dharma.

Nirvana isn't something other than yourself... one must simply "wake up". that is all.

 

[vajradhara]

From what I gather you have to ceaselessly meditate, alone.

namaste rising_suns,

er... i'm not sure why you gather that.. however... that won't do much for you

meditation is a part of the practice.. not the entireity of the practice.

 

[vajradhara]

Thank you for your response!! I thoughly enjoy them. I guess my question would be just that; why was one god/goddess ignored; yet he (buddha) accepted the testimony of Brahma?

It was my understanding, correct me if I am wrong, that Buddist do not worship a deity. But, their own ability to enlighten themselves.

Thank you again!!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!!!

Argh! no, no a thousand times no.. buddhists do not worship their own ability or anything of that nature. please, this is a western concept that does not fit.

 

[vajradhara]

Please keep in mind, I'm not learned in Buddhist teachings. I am not claiming to be. This is what I have come to understand what Buddhism is. If you have a different understanding, please share it so that all may understand. I do not claim that all of this is 100% correct as I am just a religion major undergrad. Thank you.

Namaste furor,

thank you for the post.

i'm unclear what the source of this information that you've posted is, however, this is not consistent with the teachings that i'm aware of. can you post a link or some references as to the source of this information?

i would encourage you, and anyone else that is interested, to please visit this site and read and learn:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/index.htm

i would suggest, starting with the primary studies before moving to the secondary studies.

 

[Tariki]

Derek-

I thank you for your post; the time and effort put forth is appreciated!! I do have some questions based on these particular comments:

Shin followers do not belive man has an eternal soul, nor do they believe in an eternal hell. If they do not believe in an eternal soul; at what point does it end? And how? Shin finds mans nature depraved by wrong actions and passions..........these wrong actions and passions, however, are not based upon any disobedience to any God or Buddha...they have there source in desire which is rooted in absolute ingnorance of the nature of reality. How can something be deemed as wrong if it is not in disobedience to someone or something?

Both Christianity and Shin find salvation in faith. Shin means by Faith a state of absolute selflessness, free of all passions. Though Christians disagree on the exact nature of Faith, they have traditionally been close together in their recognition of the awakening of faith..........a religious experience of great importance....the time of which can be known in terms of hours, days, weeks and years. Shin, on the other hand, insists that the beliver cannot point to any instant in time as the exact moment of the awakening of faith. Believe me when I say, I mean no offense in this. But, it seems to me, the followers of Shin Buddism; are placing their faith in themselves. I am trusting myself to become free of selfishness. This is impossible. Man in sinful by nature we agree on this. So, how can one change his nature all by himself? Men, by nature have very little faith in anything!! In Christianity it only matters where you place that little bit of faith. I choose to place it in Him whose faith is endless. Not in myself. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The object of worship...............Christians worship an almighty, all merciful God who is the creator of heaven and earth. Shin declares the object of worship to to be the Buddha of Endless Light and Life. This Buddha is all merciful and omniscient, but is niether the creator nor regulator of the world. Shin states that it takes refuge in Amida Buddha as the embodiment of the Law of Buddhahood manifested in his name. If Buddists do not believe in Buddha as the creator of the universe, who is? And if no one; how did we get here; evolution?

Christians see the goal of their religion as the attainment of heaven, shin find the reward and benifit as being reborn into the Pure realm.........equated in Shin doctrine with nirvana. As a Christian I do not see my goal as the attainment of Heaven. That would be selling my faith short. For, the moment I trusted in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior; I was guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven. My goal, as should be the goal of Christians in general; is to tell the good news of Jesus Christ and the Salvation given only through Him. My goal is to see everyone accept Christ and attain Heaven. To give the joy of God to others through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Again no offense, this is only my opinion; but I see Buddism as a very self centered, self gratifing religion. I can obtain Nirvana if I free myself from my problems. I/me/my..


PEACE IN CHRIST!!!!

Isaiah,

It is a very difficult thing to truly hear the voice of the "other" through the filter of our own presuppositions and beliefs............often on these forums I have assumed something, read something into something.........and found myself in the wrong! Your own Bible says - I think in Proverbs - "He who answers a thing before he heareth it, it is a shame and a folly unto him". When - or how - do we truly "hear" the voice of another? When - even....can we? - truly hear the teachings and faith of another.

When does our "soul" end?.............it never began..............this is "anatta", the no-self teaching of Buddhism, that makes it distinct from all other Faiths and religions. "It is only suffering that comes to be and only suffering that ends"

Things are deemed to be wrong by there consequences. We experience suffering..............we do not like it...............we see others suffer. We can draw our own conclusions and decide our own reactions. We should seek an ethics of empathy with our fellow human beings rather than be concerned about "disobedience" to anyone or anything.

Placing faith in ourselves? I can only conclude you have not truly "heard" the words of my post...............that your own preconcieved opinions are clouding your mind. Sorry, I must be honest about this. Unless you give great thought, with an open mind, to the "anatta" teachings of Buddhism you will never feel or judge differently. To hear and read and meet some of the Buddhist "saints" in our modern world is to meet those who are "selfless" in a deep and profound way..................the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If you truly wish to learn , I would recommend the book "Understanding Buddhism" by the Catholic Heinrich Dumoulin.............just as a starter!

Creation, or otherwise, ............... Reality-as-is can just "be". (The arguments are endless.)

I would not sell your faith short.............I accept you have more than "heaven" in mind. (Remember that I did critique the list myself? And in a way that allows for what you say) I would only say that, according to your own statements, not all will "come to Christ".............and in consequence the suffering of many human beings will be an eternal reality..........(If you feel/think that this is a consequence of "justice" then I do not agree.)

And in a sense, nirvana IS our problems. "He can truly enjoy the feast who would just as willingly fast" (Meister Eckhart, Christian mystic)

Anyway, from the conclusion of Dumoulin's book............

"Whether, on its deepest ground, being is personal or impersonal, is something that humans will never be able to plumb by thier rational powers. Here we face a decision which one makes according to one's own tradition and upbringing, and still more according to one's faith and experience. The Christian sees ultimate reality revealed in the personal love of God as shown on Christ, the Buddhist in the silence of the Buddha. yet they agree on two things: that the ultimate mystery is ineffable, and that it should be manifest to human beings. The inscription on a Chinese stone figure of the Buddha, dated 746, reads......

The Higest truth is without image.
If there were no image at all, however, there would be no way for truth to be manifested.
The highest principle is without words.
But if there were not words at all, how could principle possibly be revealed?"

Thank you.
Derek

 

[SavedByGrace3]

.

The most important part of Buddhism is that there's not one laid out path for you like there is in Christianity and other religions. You must choose your own and find yourself, nobody can do that for you..

So this is kind of a pro-choice smorgasbord religion.
Does it let you believe in God/Jesus/salvation by grace? Or is that not offered as a choice?
Just curious.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Well there's my summary. Tariki, feel free to add your own ideas to help people understand Buddhism better. It would be nice if we could hopefully make people understand it enough so that they don't critique it without knowledge of it.

If the purpose of this thread is to "help people understand Buddhism better", then it needs to be removed. Forum rules do not allow for the promotion of other religions.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The bottom line is, your comment was confrontational, and does not contribute to the original post of helping people understand buddhism. Lets try to keep this thread on track here ok?

If anyone would like to address my questions/concerns, that would be apprecaited. Thanks guys.

Bottom line this thread should not be on the site...

 

[vajradhara]

So this is kind of a pro-choice smorgasbord religion.
Does it let you believe in God/Jesus/salvation by grace? Or is that not offered as a choice?
Just curious.

Namaste didaskalos,

yes, you would be able to hold a theistic belief in God or Jesus if you wanted, depending on the school that you practiced.

whilst is seems to be a myriad of options to choose from, remember, that each person is of differing capacities, as such, each person can only correctly respond in a way that is correct for them.

in the end.. Buddhist praxis is about the "experience" rather than the "knowledge" if that makes sense.

 

[Isaiah 53]

So then, can Buddism be classified as a religous belief. If you essentially believe you can believe whatever?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

So then, can Buddism be classified as a religous belief. If you essentially believe you can believe whatever?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

Exactly my point. Sounds like a fill in the blanks religion. I could be a Christian buddhist. Or would it be a Buddhist Christian???

 

[vajradhara]

So then, can Buddism be classified as a religous belief. If you essentially believe you can believe whatever?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

hmm.. well.. you can extrapolate that from my post.. however, that is not accurate

it is many things.. a religious belief, a philosophical belief and a systematic methodology.

westerners do so love to categorize things and place them in their neat little boxes... most things don't fit so well into boxes that are predefined for them.

again... i'm not really sure how to say this any more clearly....

you could be a Buddhist and worship Jesus or God if you wanted. i'm not sure how true to either of them you would be. by the same token, you could be a law abiding citizen that regularly speeds on the highway.. not a good criminal nor a good law abiding citizen. you can, however, do both if you want.

the Buddhist teachings, should you choose to visit any of the numerous links that have been posted you would learn this for yourself, do not have a creator deity posited in any fashion. which is not to say that you, i.e. an individual practiconer, couldn't syncrize the two traditions to have a single belief system.

if you leave aside the philosophical underpinings, and simply keep the practice aspect of Buddhism, it would not be an issue to be a Christian and engage in Buddhist praxis. the World Community on Christian Mediatation uses tried and true Buddhist methods in a God oriented way. perhaps, it would be of some benefit to investigate what they have to say on the topic.

 

[Isaiah 53]

hmm.. well.. you can extrapolate that from my post.. however, that is not accurate

it is many things.. a religious belief, a philosophical belief and a systematic methodology.

westerners do so love to categorize things and place them in their neat little boxes... most things don't fit so well into boxes that are predefined for them.

again... i'm not really sure how to say this any more clearly....

you could be a Buddhist and worship Jesus or God if you wanted. i'm not sure how true to either of them you would be. by the same token, you could be a law abiding citizen that regularly speeds on the highway.. not a good criminal nor a good law abiding citizen. you can, however, do both if you want.

the Buddhist teachings, should you choose to visit any of the numerous links that have been posted you would learn this for yourself, do not have a creator deity posited in any fashion. which is not to say that you, i.e. an individual practiconer, couldn't syncrize the two traditions to have a single belief system.

if you leave aside the philosophical underpinings, and simply keep the practice aspect of Buddhism, it would not be an issue to be a Christian and engage in Buddhist praxis. the World Community on Christian Mediatation uses tried and true Buddhist methods in a God oriented way. perhaps, it would be of some benefit to investigate what they have to say on the topic.

I thank you for your continued kind responses. I do have some more questions. If the soul is not eternal; when you enter into Nirvana what happens next? As I understand it, Nirvana is the complete removal of all emotion and isolation to ones self, completely unaware of others.

So, there you are in Nirvana all alone and without emotion of any kind. How long are you there? What happens when your time there is up?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[vajradhara]

I thank you for your continued kind responses. I do have some more questions. If the soul is not eternal; when you enter into Nirvana what happens next? As I understand it, Nirvana is the complete removal of all emotion and isolation to ones self, completely unaware of others.

So, there you are in Nirvana all alone and without emotion of any kind. How long are you there? What happens when your time there is up?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

Namaste Isaiah,

thank you for your continued kind and tolerant responses as well

you understand Nirvana incorrectly. Nirvana means "blowing out" and it is a blowing out (like a candle flame) of concepts. that is all. not isolation or anything like that.

in fact, the Bodhisattva Vow, which i will post just a bit of from the Bodhicharyavatara (The Way of the Bodhisattva) as clarified in the book A Flash of Lightning in the Dark of Night:

18. May i be a guard for those who are protectorless,
a guide for those who journey on the road;
for those who wish to go across water,
may i be a boat, a raft, a bridge.

19. May i be an isle for those who yearn for landfall,
and a lamp for those who long for light;
for those that need a resting place, a bed;
for all who need a servant, may i be a slave.

20. May i be the wishing jewel, the vase of plenty,
a word of power, and the supreme remedy.
May i be the tree of miracles,
and for every being, the abundant cow.

21. Like the great earth and the other elements,
enduring as the sky itself endures,
for the boundless multitude of living beings,
may i be the ground and vessel of their life.

22. Thus, for every single thing that lives,
in number like the boundless reaches of the sky,
may i be their sustenance and nourishment
until they pass beyond the bounds of suffering.

clearly demonstrates, that isolation from individuals and people is not the goal of the teachings.

Nirvana is not something that really can be described like a place.. it's not some place that you "go" to, like a wal-mart.

it's the total absence of conceptual thought in the mind.. how would one describe something that is beyond the ability of the intellect to cognize? one would use metaphor and similie.

if you are desireous, we can discuss, as much as possible, Nirvana and it's ramifications...

 

[Isaiah 53]

Greetings!! I would like to discuss Nirvana a little more. So, once I obtain Nirvana, then I cease to exist? Why would this be a goal worthy of obtaining? And does one obtain Nirvana while physically alive or only after death?


PEACE IN CHRIST!!!!

 

[vajradhara]

Greetings!! I would like to discuss Nirvana a little more. So, once I obtain Nirvana, then I cease to exist? Why would this be a goal worthy of obtaining? And does one obtain Nirvana while physically alive or only after death?


PEACE IN CHRIST!!!!

Namaste Isaiah,

thanks for the post.

you don't exist now.. you impute an existence based on the 5 aggregates.. this is completely expounded and clarified in the Prajnaparamita Sutras which correspond with the Second Turning of the Wheel of Dharma. generally speaking, these schools are the Mahayana schools.

i would encourage you to read this link:

http://www.lamayeshe.com/lamazopa/impanddeath.shtml

though it is a bit long, for a more detailed and complete explanation.

Nirvana is something that happens right now.. this very moment... it is not the same as the Christian Heaven... which is often how it's depicted.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Namaste Isaiah,

thanks for the post.

you don't exist now.. you impute an existence based on the 5 aggregates.. this is completely expounded and clarified in the Prajnaparamita Sutras which correspond with the Second Turning of the Wheel of Dharma. generally speaking, these schools are the Mahayana schools.

i would encourage you to read this link:

http://www.lamayeshe.com/lamazopa/impanddeath.shtml

though it is a bit long, for a more detailed and complete explanation.

Nirvana is something that happens right now.. this very moment... it is not the same as the Christian Heaven... which is often how it's depicted.

Please excuse my ignorance on this belief system. What happens when you die?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

 

[vajradhara]

Please excuse my ignorance on this belief system. What happens when you die?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!

Namaste Isaiah,

it sort of depends on the school of Buddhism that you practice. if you are interested in my view (i.e. that of the Vajrayana) then i'd recommend that you read this for a brief overview:
http://www.lamayeshe.com/otherteachers/hhdl/death.shtml

 

[Isaiah 53]

I would like to hear it from someone who practices the belief. What do you believe will happen to YOU when you die?


PEACE IN CHRIST!!!!!