Brothers and Sisters, is it TIME FOR WRATH???

[Eudaimonist]

And once more I am reminded why I am glad that the god of the bible does not exist.

Yeah, that God makes Sauron, the Dark Lord of Mordor, look like a saint.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[selfinflikted]

If you don't care, then don't berate me about science and how it disproves religion. You guys can't even explain the origin of the universe, lol

I find it funny how these atheists always talk up how wonderful science is, and then when I bring up a simple question of "where did it all come from them" they get all insecure and say "who cares"..

So typical.

In ancient times, people honestly believed that lightning bolts were thrown from the hands of angry gods. Today, because of scientists persistently searching for truth and not lying complacent in common superstitious beliefs, we know this is not true. Similarly, you believe that the universe was created by a (oftentimes angry) god. Once again, science's perseverance will uncover the truth about how the universe began. "We don't yet know" is a perfectly acceptable answer to the mysteries of the origins of the universe, and is an answer that drives science to understand even more. Each time science makes a new discovery or a new step towards truth, your "god" becomes less and less relevant, and less and less real. The God of the Gaps is disintegrating, and will one day eventually fizzle out to join the myriad other fictitious characters in historical myth.

 

[GardenOfKadesh]

If you don't care, then don't berate me about science and how it disproves religion. You guys can't even explain the origin of the universe, lol

I find it funny how these atheists always talk up how wonderful science is, and then when I bring up a simple question of "where did it all come from them" they get all insecure and say "who cares"..

The scientists called: They want everything past sharpened sticks back. The computer you're typing on? Yeah, that too. It runs on theory, you see (Electromagnetism, for instance). They want it back. Yes, we can't explain where Electromagnetism comes from, but that isn't the purpose of science.

Science is not making conjectures about philosophical dribble, it's about purely material observations. The Big Bang's the same way, it doesn't need to be explained because you cannot look at it and explained non-observable origins. We just know it happened.

Of course, if you want to go back to having a lifespan of twenty years, be my guest.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Only if you want to turn people away from Christ.

Uhmm, I have nothing to do with whether people turn to, or turn away from Christ. You might want to think this through. Here, check it and get back to me:

[SIZE=+2]T[/SIZE]

Total Depravity (Total Inability)

Total Depravity is probably the most misunderstood tenet of Calvinism. When Calvinists speak of humans as "totally depraved," they are making an extensive, rather than an intensive statement. The effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of his personality -- his thinking, his emotions, and his will. Not necessarily that he is intensely sinful, but that sin has extended to his entire being.
The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability." The man without a knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5).
[SIZE=+2]U[/SIZE]

Unconditional Election

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8).
This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.
The elect are saved unto good works (Ephesians 2:10). Thus, though good works will never bridge the gulf between man and God that was formed in the Fall, good works are a result of God's saving grace. This is what Peter means when he admonishes the Christian reader to make his "calling" and "election" sure (2 Peter 1:10). Bearing the fruit of good works is an indication that God has sown seeds of grace in fertile soil.
[SIZE=+2]L[/SIZE]

Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)

Limited Atonement is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9). Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28). Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).
This doctrine often finds many objections, mostly from those who think that Limited Atonement does damage to evangelism. We have already seen that Christ will not lose any that the father has given to him (John 6:37). Christ's death was not a death of potential atonement for all people. Believing that Jesus' death was a potential, symbolic atonement for anyone who might possibly, in the future, accept him trivializes Christ's act of atonement. Christ died to atone for specific sins of specific sinners. Christ died to make holy the church. He did not atone for all men, because obviously all men are not saved. Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine, for the evangelist may tell his congregation that Christ died for sinners, and that he will not lose any of those for whom he died!
[SIZE=+2]I[/SIZE]

Irresistible Grace

The result of God's Irresistible Grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit, when the outward call is given by the evangelist or minister of the Word of God. Christ, himself, teaches that all whom God has elected will come to a knowledge of him (John 6:37). Men come to Christ in salvation when the Father calls them (John 6:44), and the very Spirit of God leads God's beloved to repentance (Romans 8:14). What a comfort it is to know that the gospel of Christ will penetrate our hard, sinful hearts and wondrously save us through the gracious inward call of the Holy Spirit (I Peter 5:10)!
[SIZE=+2]P[/SIZE]

Perseverance of the Saints

Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

And once more I am reminded why I am glad that the god of the bible does not exist.

Uhm, you may wish to reconsider that statement Ng. Unless you are prepared to show us that you have ALL KNOWLEDGE IN AND OUTSIDE OF THE UNIVERSE.

Otherwise that is a foolish statement.

 

[happydance]

ShieldOfFaith, do you ever preach about the love of Jesus?

 

[Vene]

Uhm, you may wish to reconsider that statement Ng. Unless you are prepared to show us that you have ALL KNOWLEDGE IN AND OUTSIDE OF THE UNIVERSE.

Otherwise that is a foolish statement.

But the burden of proof falls on those making the claim. You claim that God exists. We don't accept your claim due to lack of evidence. Why don't you believe in Brahma instead? There is just as much evidence for his existence.

 

[Paulos23]

ShieldOfFaith, do you ever preach about the love of Jesus?

He never does. As far as I can figure out he believes that if you are one of people God choose to be a Christian and destine to go to heaven, it doesn't matter if you believe or not, you get to go to heaven. All he is doing here is taunting people because he believes he is one of those chosen and we are not and we are going to burn for it according to him.

In my opinion, very unchristian like behavior.

 

[Bombila]

ShieldOfFaith, do you ever preach about the love of Jesus?

As far as I can interpret it, SoF's belief system states that most of us are going to hell whether we believe in Christian God or not, which leads me to question why s/he bothers to post these wrath-rants, other than to gloat over his/her fantasies about torture.

I wonder how s/he knows s/he's one of the chosen few? Be a real drag if it turns out God was just kiddin' with ya, SoF.

 

[Peach81]

Uhm, you may wish to reconsider that statement Ng. Unless you are prepared to show us that you have ALL KNOWLEDGE IN AND OUTSIDE OF THE UNIVERSE.

Even your god hasn't shown us all that. Where in the bible does it speak of black holes, and supernovas, or even our Milky Way galaxy? Where are the revelations of the vast infinity of the entire universe?

As for the topic at hand, I am all for your wrath kink. If anthing, it will just turn people off from your demented interpretation of Christianity.

 

[Chajara]

I don't get it. If you can't do anything about whether people go to Heaven or not, then why preach? Do you think that by preaching, that YOUR actions will save the world from God's wrath, instead of the unbelievers' acts of repentance?

If you think it's your preaching that can save the world, then I have to say, brother, that your ego needs to be restrained. If you don't believe that your preaching is what will appease God, then why are you doing it? Is it because you enjoy the idea of all those terrible people getting what they deserve? If that's the case, then I might gently suggest that you put aside what pleases your fleshly, human desire for revenge. Revenge fantasies are natural to us as humans, but as Christians we are to put aside those desires and do what is right.

 

[Peach81]

I don't get it. If you can't do anything about whether people go to Heaven or not, then why preach? Do you think that by preaching, that YOUR actions will save the world from God's wrath, instead of the unbelievers' acts of repentance?

They do it because it is their own souls they care about, not anybody else's. They think by condemning the rest of the world, their god will thrown them a bone and show some mercy to them and only them. So they spew their patronizing filth and hide behind a banner of righteousness, because, in the end, it's really all about them. They don't give a damn about their fellow human being, which is what Jesus was all about.

 

[Chajara]

They do it because it is their own souls they care about, not anybody else's. They think by condemning the rest of the world, their god will thrown them a bone and show some mercy to them and only them. So they spew their patronizing filth and hide behind a banner of righteousness, because, in the end, it's really all about them. They don't give a damn about their fellow human being, which is what Jesus was all about.

I guess this brings up something I also don't really get.

If God is such a huge jerk, if you have to jump through hoops all your life to ensure your salvation or look good for him, then what sort of God is he anyway? A tyrannical one from the sound of it, and one not worthy of praise.

The God I know and love is a God who adores everyone, regardless of how terrible they are or how good. He doesn't lay waste to people far and wide just because they did stupid things that humans tend to do. That's revenge.

You know what I just realized? The point I just made about revenge fantasies being wrong will go in one ear and out the other of someone who believes that God himself engages in his own revenge fantasies on a spectacular scale. I don't believe that, although I used to, so now I see that what makes perfect sense to me probably will be disregarded by someone who has an opposite view of who God is.

 

[KomissarSteve]

Uhmm, I have nothing to do with whether people turn to, or turn away from Christ.

Yes, actually, you do.

If peoples' experience of Christianity through you is one of hatred, intolerance, and self-righteousness, they will assume that Christianity is a religion that promotes these things. Judging from...well, all of your posts here on 4U, this is the message that (wittingly or unwittingly) you convey to non-Christians, not a message of love and forgiveness.

If this is true, then I have news for you: it's not God's Work that you're doing by scaring people away from Christ.

Matt. 23:13-15:
13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[c]
15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."

 

[WatersMoon110]

Personally, if one is trying to lead people to Christ, yelling at them about how God will send them to Hell if they don't believe in Him is going to have the opposite effect.

Didn't Christ say to love thy neighbor as thyself? Isn't there a Golden Rule? How would those Christians who want to spew Hellfire and Brimstone at others feel if there were people of other religions doing such things to them, I wonder?

 

[WatersMoon110]

If this is true, then I have news for you: it's not God's Work that you're doing by scaring people away from Christ.

I have to agree. A short time ago, I had lost faith in my religion, and was seriously considering converting to Christianity, hoping this would help me feel less lost and scared. Then, almost miraculously, a Fundamentalist Christian on this forum posted something so hateful that I realized that I couldn't become a Christian, and I abandoned all thoughts of doing so.

I really wonder what such people think they are doing by portraying Christianity as such a hateful faith. I think that Jesus would not approve of such things, as He said (in John) that His followers would be recognized by their love for their fellow humans!

 

[m9lc]

*Gasp*, your willing to take it on the blind FAITH of scientists?? hmmm..

Someone throwing a rock in their glass house again?

I already explained the difference to you. It's blind faith about something that doesn't matter at all to me. There's no point going out and researching all sorts of astrophysics to be able to understand the evidence myself, when the conclusion is something I really don't care about. Now, if I tried to take away someone's rights based on my belief in the Big Bang, that would be a different story.

 

[tulc]

Uhmm, I have nothing to do with whether people turn to, or turn away from Christ. You might want to think this through. Here, check it and get back to me:

[SIZE=+2]T[/SIZE]

Total Depravity (Total Inability)

Total Depravity is probably the most misunderstood tenet of Calvinism. When Calvinists speak of humans as "totally depraved," they are making an extensive, rather than an intensive statement. The effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of his personality -- his thinking, his emotions, and his will. Not necessarily that he is intensely sinful, but that sin has extended to his entire being.
The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability." The man without a knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5).
[SIZE=+2]U[/SIZE]

Unconditional Election

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8).
This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.
The elect are saved unto good works (Ephesians 2:10). Thus, though good works will never bridge the gulf between man and God that was formed in the Fall, good works are a result of God's saving grace. This is what Peter means when he admonishes the Christian reader to make his "calling" and "election" sure (2 Peter 1:10). Bearing the fruit of good works is an indication that God has sown seeds of grace in fertile soil.
[SIZE=+2]L[/SIZE]

Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)

Limited Atonement is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9). Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28). Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).
This doctrine often finds many objections, mostly from those who think that Limited Atonement does damage to evangelism. We have already seen that Christ will not lose any that the father has given to him (John 6:37). Christ's death was not a death of potential atonement for all people. Believing that Jesus' death was a potential, symbolic atonement for anyone who might possibly, in the future, accept him trivializes Christ's act of atonement. Christ died to atone for specific sins of specific sinners. Christ died to make holy the church. He did not atone for all men, because obviously all men are not saved. Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine, for the evangelist may tell his congregation that Christ died for sinners, and that he will not lose any of those for whom he died!
[SIZE=+2]I[/SIZE]

Irresistible Grace

The result of God's Irresistible Grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit, when the outward call is given by the evangelist or minister of the Word of God. Christ, himself, teaches that all whom God has elected will come to a knowledge of him (John 6:37). Men come to Christ in salvation when the Father calls them (John 6:44), and the very Spirit of God leads God's beloved to repentance (Romans 8:14). What a comfort it is to know that the gospel of Christ will penetrate our hard, sinful hearts and wondrously save us through the gracious inward call of the Holy Spirit (I Peter 5:10)!
[SIZE=+2]P[/SIZE]

Perseverance of the Saints

Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.

Uhm, you may wish to reconsider that statement Ng. Unless you are prepared to show us that you have ALL KNOWLEDGE IN AND OUTSIDE OF THE UNIVERSE.

Otherwise that is a foolish statement.

Anyone elses irony meter just explode?
tulc(should start buying them in bulk)

 

[flicka]

When I see the title of this thread I can't help but think..."Ladies and gentlemen, LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!"

 

[Zaac]

The bow of God's wrath is bent, and the arrow made ready on the string, and justice bends the arrow at your heart, and strains the bow, and it is nothing but the mere pleasure of God, and that of an angry God, without any promise or obligation at all, that keeps the arrow one moment from being made drunk with your blood. Thus all you that never passed under a great change of heart, by the mighty power of the Spirit of God upon your souls; all you that were never born again, and made new creatures, and raised from being dead in sin, to a state of new, and before altogether unexperienced light and life, are in the hands of an angry God. However you may have reformed your life in many things, and may have had religious affections, and may keep up a form of religion in your families and closets, and in the house of God, it is nothing but his mere pleasure that keeps you from being this moment swallowed up in everlasting destruction. However unconvinced you may now be of the truth of what you hear, by and by you will be fully convinced of it. Those that are gone from being in the like circumstances with you, see that it was so with them; for destruction came suddenly upon most of them; when they expected nothing of it, and while they were saying, Peace and safety: now they see, that those things on which they depended for peace and safety, were nothing but thin air and empty shadows.
The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God's hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.
O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell. You hang by a slender thread, with the flames of divine wrath flashing about it, and ready every moment to singe it, and burn it asunder; and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment. -- And consider here more particularly,

1. Whose wrath it is: it is the wrath of the infinite God. If it were only the wrath of man, though it were of the most potent prince, it would be comparatively little to be regarded. The wrath of kings is very much dreaded, especially of absolute monarchs, who have the possessions and lives of their subjects wholly in their power, to be disposed of at their mere will. Prov. 20:2. "The fear of a king is as the roaring of a lion: Whoso provoketh him to anger, sinneth against his own soul." The subject that very much enrages an arbitrary prince, is liable to suffer the most extreme torments that human art can invent, or human power can inflict. But the greatest earthly potentates in their greatest majesty and strength, and when clothed in their greatest terrors, are but feeble, despicable worms of the dust, in comparison of the great and almighty Creator and King of heaven and earth. It is but little that they can do, when most enraged, and when they have exerted the utmost of their fury. All the kings of the earth, before God, are as grasshoppers; they are nothing, and less than nothing: both their love and their hatred is to be despised. The wrath of the great King of kings, is as much more terrible than theirs, as his majesty is greater. Luke 12:4,5. "And I say unto you, my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that, have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: fear him, which after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell: yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

===================================================

The above is a portion of the greatest sermon ever preached in the U.S.. It is from Jonathan Edwards' 'Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God'.

Brothers and sisters, my question to you is; is it time for your pastor to start Preaching some Wrath??? Serious.

We are seeing our country getting out of control. I believe it is time for us to man up and start warning people of the Wrath of God. Our pastors and priests are our #1 source for this. I believe that our children and their children will be in a serious world of hurt if we do not warn them.

I believe that the time is through with all this weak placating to the heathen in our church services. This whole "seeker sensitive" nonsense is weakening our churches and the message of the Cross and the Wrath of God. Someone has to tell them. The time is now!

What say you brothers and sisters?

Absolutely!!! Why any pastor would purpose to preach of God's love without preaching of His wrath is crazy and is essentially false teaching. And yall can call Joel Osteen and tell em I said so.