• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,712
1,469
Cloud 9
✟104,919.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
However, the porn good/bad is kind of a thread jack, so getting back to your issue: it seems like you have come to a decision.

Please read the blog from Clara Hinton. At the top of the blog there's a button that says "next". You'll want to "next" through each post all the way through. The one post is just the start of it. It will open your eyes on tactics to not fall for. It was extremely educational for me.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 20, 2017
13
12
42
Tennessee
✟23,320.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Changes are necessary because his behavior hurts his wife. Full stop. That's all that's necessary. She has already let him know this very clearly. It's hard to be any more direct and clear than she was.

In her case, since his behaviors that hurt his wife, which he refuses to stop, involve extramarital sexual immorality, she has been gifted with Biblical grounds to end the marriage.

I agree with you, E. I simply could not have been more clear with him. I am grieving the loss of not only my spouse but my friend of a decade. And off we go to visit family for Christmas... while my heart is broken and I can hardly stand to be near him. I am praying for God's peace which transcends all understanding to fill me to overflowing so I can connect well with my family and not be inundated with sadness. He just carries on about his normal way, laughing and carefree, and it makes me all the more upset that he can be so light and airy while he's left me with a broken heart. I'm having a hard time having an appetite, and it actually feels a lot like I am attending a funeral for my marriage.

Still, there is reason to celebrate because Christmas is about Jesus, the greatest gift and love that I have ever known. Jesus. Jesus.

:pray::pray::pray:
 
Upvote 0

DZoolander

Persnickety Member
Apr 24, 2007
7,279
2,114
Far far away
✟127,634.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Agreed - I'm not really intending to get into a long drawn out discussion of porn. For the purposes of this discussion - no - he ought not be viewing it because you don't want him to and you're entitled to set your own boundaries. My personal thoughts on how "infidelity" plays into it, because I'm pedantic with definitions/etc, has no bearing on this. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Endeavourer
Upvote 0
Dec 20, 2017
13
12
42
Tennessee
✟23,320.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
However, the porn good/bad is kind of a thread jack, so getting back to your issue: it seems like you have come to a decision.

Please read the blog from Clara Hinton. At the top of the blog there's a button that says "next". You'll want to "next" through each post all the way through. The one post is just the start of it. It will open your eyes on tactics to not fall for. It was extremely educational for me.

Thank you so much for this. When we are embedded in the situation, with our hearts fully invested, it can be easy to waver between listening to your instincts (or insight!) and listening to deceitful tactics intended to desensitize you. There is another term for this, "gaslighting", I believe, and he has done this a lot throughout our relationship.

I do know what I have to do and it utterly breaks my heart.
 
Upvote 0

DZoolander

Persnickety Member
Apr 24, 2007
7,279
2,114
Far far away
✟127,634.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Well, that sucks. I can sympathize there to an extent also, because the last day of my marriage was my 28th birthday. I filed the day after. Sorry you're going through this. :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: Endeavourer
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,712
1,469
Cloud 9
✟104,919.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And off we go to visit family for Christmas... while my heart is broken and I can hardly stand to be near him. I am praying for God's peace which transcends all understanding to fill me to overflowing so I can connect well with my family and not be inundated with sadness.

Is there a reason you would put yourself through this? Why not initiate what you need to do right now?

He just carries on about his normal way, laughing and carefree, and it makes me all the more upset that he can be so light and airy while he's left me with a broken heart.

Why would he not be laughing and carefree? You are allowing yourself to be manipulated into what he wants to do - pretend all is normal and carry on.

If I were your family, I'd be very upset with you for bringing him along and pretending everything was normal. It would have deprived me of an opportunity to support you and worse, given him further inroads into bonding with us under false pretenses.

You have an opportunity here to maximize the impact on your husband and perhaps catch his attention which will better his life for future relationships. Whenever someone I know has found unfaithfulness in their spouse, I follow Dr. Harley's advice on ending the relationship. The first step is exposure to friends and family without warning to the unfaithful spouse. What this does is forces the unfaithful spouse to see his/her actions in the eyes of third parties. It's also Biblical -> Ephesians tells us to expose the works of darkness, not hide them.

If it were me, I would send out an email to all of your family and his stating that you are very sorry to tell them this but you are separating due to his infidelity which includes purposeful lies about a porn addiction which continues, cyberstalking friends of yours that he admits he lusts after and a refusal to stop leering at women including down your own mother's shirt. Be very truthful. One paragraph. You did a great job of relaying the facts short and to the point on your posts here.

This is a tactic that many here at Christianforums.com will not agree with. However, I've been a lay volunteer in a marriage helping community (especially in the forums at marriagebuilders.com) and **without fail** exposure is the first step in confronting an addiction. It will also provide you with the support you need at this time and deprive him of the opportunity to spin it on you.

If there is any chance of him forsaking his addiction, this might be it. Whether you want him back if he turns back is something only you can know. I don't believe the Bible requires us to take a spouse who is repenting of unfaithfulness back.

Whether or not you do the exposure in the manner I suggested, I would not proceed with this farce of a Christmas at any price. It will be at an enormous emotional cost to you and a heyday of cake eating for him.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,042
116
✟107,821.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Changes are necessary because his behavior hurts his wife. Full stop. That's all that's necessary. She has already let him know this very clearly. It's hard to be any more direct and clear than she was.

In her case, since his behaviors that hurt his wife, which he refuses to stop, involve extramarital sexual immorality, she has been gifted with Biblical grounds to end the marriage.
I agree with you 100%. There's a number of complete-no-go issues issues here and he *should* have listened. But he didn't. My proposal of going to a professional counselor to (hopefully) get things through his head-- it's worth a try. And then if he doesn't listen things are still a no-go. It's at least worth a try.
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,712
1,469
Cloud 9
✟104,919.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I updated my post above to use the verbiage "you are separating" instead of "your marriage is ending".

The first step you will take towards ending your marriage is a separation. You don't have to widely provide information on your strategy further than the actual separation at this moment, but that is your choice.

However, I would separate in pursuit of ending the marriage if it were me.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 20, 2017
13
12
42
Tennessee
✟23,320.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I updated my post above to use the verbiage "you are separating" instead of "your marriage is ending".

The first step you will take towards ending your marriage is a separation. You don't have to widely provide information on your strategy further than the actual separation at this moment, but that is your choice.

However, I would separate in pursuit of ending the marriage if it were me.

I've told my parents, my sibling, some of my friends who attended our wedding, and his family. His upbringing was not very good, from what I have learned. When he told his mother that I was considering separation, she told him that what he's done isn't wrong, that it's OK to look as long as you don't touch, and that I am the one sinning for refusing to give myself to him through this. She also told him that I don't love him and that I am just looking for any reason to leave. She said I have no right to "punish" him by withholding myself from him and sleeping in separate bedrooms. I replied that God's design for marriage is not what we have-- and God's design for physical intimacy in marriage is between spouses who are faithful to one another. So clearly, his own family is not helping the situation- at all! In fact, they might have led him to the very path that he is on long ago. His father stays quiet behind my husband's mother's tyrannical rants. It's so very disturbing. He put her on speaker phone as she said these things, so I heard it all (and my own mother was here at the time and also heard it-- she was shocked and appalled).

My husband has been reaching out to other people who have struggled with sex addictions and asking them to confirm that he can never promise to be faithful to me because he will always be warring with the fleshly desires and might fall.

My mom thinks that I need to pursue divorce. My father thinks that I have an opportunity to help to save a soul (through Christ, of course) if I choose to stay, though he understands that it would be a long and hard road. I am stuck between these exact two pulls.

I have asked him to leave and go stay somewhere else, but he refuses to leave. If I try to separate, he will not leave. We have our own jobs and can each support our own way. He COULD leave-- and he has family that he could stay with, too. But he simply refuses to leave and says that no matter what, he is not leaving and he is going to "fight" for this marriage. He's very contradictory in every sense of the word.

My friends who witnessed our wedding feel incredibly betrayed by him, too. We started going to a program called Re:generation at church each week. It was a last ditch effort to see whether he would change, and at first, I thought that it was helping because our communication was starting to improve. However, after a few weeks of going, he walked out all chummy with a new buddy who is in an active adulterous relationship with another woman. He sure has a way of picking friends. When I stressed my concern, he told the guy they shouldn't be friends, but only "at my request". He just does not have basic moral understanding to make wise decisions and friends.

Anyway, my family is aware of the situation at hand, but they are trying to be loving and allow him to still come for Christmas. If it were my child, I'd probably give the guy a kick in the bumm. But my parents don't want to meddle too much in this, they are both praying and asking me to consider deeply whether I really want to try to make this work or not. I have been wrestling with whether I believe that's even possible.... and while I'm still wrestling, I'm continuously coming back to "this will be a lifelong, painful battle and there is no guarantee that he will ever come around."
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,522
16,853
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟772,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
When he told his mother that I was considering separation, she told him that what he's done isn't wrong, that it's OK to look as long as you don't touch, and that I am the one sinning for refusing to give myself to him through this. She also told him that I don't love him and that I am just looking for any reason to leave.
Well there you go. That was the training he got at home.
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,712
1,469
Cloud 9
✟104,919.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My husband has been reaching out to other people who have struggled with sex addictions and asking them to confirm that he can never promise to be faithful to me because he will always be warring with the fleshly desires and might fall.

There you have it. If you stay with him under these conditions he'll know you'll accept anything. If someone can't promise to be faithful, they are not marriage material. It's a shame he didn't tell you this before he deceived you into marrying him.

My father thinks that I have an opportunity to help to save a soul (through Christ, of course) if I choose to stay, though he understands that it would be a long and hard road. I am stuck between these exact two pulls.

That's not your job - it's the Holy Spirit's job. If you set yourself up to be his Holy Spirit you will fail and be miserable trying.

Your mom is right. In the future if he ever kicks his addiction to your satisfaction you can always remarry - if you are still available and interested.

I have asked him to leave and go stay somewhere else, but he refuses to leave. If I try to separate, he will not leave. We have our own jobs and can each support our own way. He COULD leave-- and he has family that he could stay with, too. But he simply refuses to leave and says that no matter what, he is not leaving and he is going to "fight" for this marriage. He's very contradictory in every sense of the word.

"Fight" for what.... the opportunity to shatter your heart into a million pieces time after time? His fight is over and he chose to lay down his arms when he said he couldn't promise to be faithful. This is some SEVERE gas lighting going on.

after a few weeks of going, he walked out all chummy with a new buddy who is in an active adulterous relationship with another woman. He sure has a way of picking friends. When I stressed my concern, he told the guy they shouldn't be friends, but only "at my request". He just does not have basic moral understanding to make wise decisions and friends.

This is a YUUUUGE alarm bell. Wayward people justify other wayward people.



Anyway, my family is aware of the situation at hand, but they are trying to be loving and allow him to still come for Christmas.

Request denied. It would be at your expense. Look at the state he has you in right now - do you want to spend the holidays like that???

I have been wrestling with whether I believe that's even possible.... and while I'm still wrestling, I'm continuously coming back to "this will be a lifelong, painful battle and there is no guarantee that he will ever come around."

This is how it would be possible for you to be with someone who intends to cheat and prevent them from cheating:
  1. be together 24x7 so you KNOW he's being faithful. You would both need to work all day together from your home or from your own business.
  2. for him to only have a flip phone (no smart phone)
  3. for him to not be on a computer unless you are sitting beside him
  4. for you to have an undisclosed GPS on his car
  5. for you to never spend an over night apart
  6. for you to never run separate errands

This is the only way you can rest in the knowledge that he's not cheating. Is that what you want? When some one has told you upfront they are unable to refrain from cheating, ^^THIS^^ is what it takes to keep them from cheating.
 
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,712
1,469
Cloud 9
✟104,919.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do you live in an apartment, or have you purchased a home together? If an apartment, I'd just leave asap with 1/2 the furniture and get my own. An apartment is really not worth fighting over.

If you bought a home together, can you afford it on your own? Would you even want it? If it were me, unless there are some financial considerations that are not obvious, I'd still leave him to it, rent an apartment on your own and get 1/2 the equity & furniture in the divorce. Then buy a home that you love with your equity.

With a marriage this young, it should not be too difficult to extricate yourself financially.
 
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,042
116
✟107,821.00
Gender
Female
Faith
I've told my parents, my sibling, some of my friends who attended our wedding, and his family. His upbringing was not very good, from what I have learned. When he told his mother that I was considering separation, she told him that what he's done isn't wrong, that it's OK to look as long as you don't touch, and that I am the one sinning for refusing to give myself to him through this. She also told him that I don't love him and that I am just looking for any reason to leave. She said I have no right to "punish" him by withholding myself from him and sleeping in separate bedrooms. I replied that God's design for marriage is not what we have-- and God's design for physical intimacy in marriage is between spouses who are faithful to one another. So clearly, his own family is not helping the situation- at all! In fact, they might have led him to the very path that he is on long ago. His father stays quiet behind my husband's mother's tyrannical rants. It's so very disturbing. He put her on speaker phone as she said these things, so I heard it all (and my own mother was here at the time and also heard it-- she was shocked and appalled).
Your MIL is completely wrong here (Matthew 5:27-28). And her marriage has almost undoubtably suffered because of it.
My husband has been reaching out to other people who have struggled with sex addictions and asking them to confirm that he can never promise to be faithful to me because he will always be warring with the fleshly desires and might fall.
Of course he might fall- fighting addiction is a lifelong battle! But that doesn't excuse not striving and not maximizing Christ in his life. With Christ on his side your husband can beat this-- it's going to be a mountain of work, and Christ is needed completely every step of the way, but it IS possible.
Anyway, my family is aware of the situation at hand, but they are trying to be loving and allow him to still come for Christmas. If it were my child, I'd probably give the guy a kick in the bumm. But my parents don't want to meddle too much in this, they are both praying and asking me to consider deeply whether I really want to try to make this work or not. I have been wrestling with whether I believe that's even possible.... and while I'm still wrestling, I'm continuously coming back to "this will be a lifelong, painful battle and there is no guarantee that he will ever come around."
You're doing the right thing. Keep praying and listening for the Spirit to tell you what to do.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 20, 2017
13
12
42
Tennessee
✟23,320.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
E, I cannot believe how some of the things about John in Clara's blog sound so much like my husband! I cannot stop reading this! It's so scary. :( This entry, especially!

Married to a Pedophile: The List and the Haunting Smirk!

He often smirks when he knows that I am hurting and I try to express it to him. He has to try really hard many times to keep a straight face. Sometimes he will drift off into his own fantasies when I express my hurts and concerns to him. He has made lists upon lists. "Let's make a list of the ten ways that we can love each other better". On the surface, it looks like a benevolent request. But joined by all of the other anomalies, it is not. I have found it strange that he often repeats things verbatim, rather than voicing his own thoughts and words. He will repeat things that I've expressed, word-for-word, in texts or conversations to family members, only displaying them as his own thoughts. When he speaks to me at times, I know it's something that he read or something that someone else has spoken to him, and if I ask him, he usually tells me the source. It's like he is so preoccupied by a fantasy world that he needs lists and quotes from others to try to come across with any sort of normalcy.

He is very much like John (and oddly enough his name is John, too), in that he has all of the superficial manners of a "southern gentleman". He opens doors for me, is kind and charming to elders, and he definitely sparks up around children and animals. In fact, his excitement for animals has seemed a bit off at times. He told me once that he was aroused when he fed our rabbits. On one of his old hard drives, I found a movie that he filmed when he was a teenager, and I was horrified. It was a very violent depiction of an orgy arranged with stuffed bunny rabbits. When I asked him about it, he said that yeah, it is sick and at least he isn't laughing about it anymore. Laughing? There was nothing-- and I repeat- NOTHING- the least bit comical about this. His use of slow-motion to enhance the violent motions was very deeply disturbing.

I am very sad to relate to some of Clara's experiences. My H is a video editor by trade. A few years ago, I hosted VBS at church, as I was the children's event planner, and one of those times, my husband (who was just a friend at the time), flew over 1000 miles (we lived in different parts of the country) to come and help. Someone else who served at VBS expressed concern that he was shooting a lot of video of the girls, and when I saw the footage, I did agree that he seemed to take more video of particularly cute little girls. I asked him about it and he said he just treasures God's beautiful children and wanted to get the right shots for the video we were making. In all the times that I have asked, he has told me that his porn addiction never ventured into pedophilia. But I am not confidant of this.

I have noticed him doing other strange things, like intentional brushing against other women. When on planes, for example, he will notice a woman walking down the aisle toward the bathroom, and at that moment dangle his arm from the seat so contact happens as she walks by. I've noticed him doing similar things in other public transportation settings. I called him out on it, and he told me that I was crazy and that he would never and has never done such a thing.

Gaslighting.

It's becoming more and more clear to me, especially as I read Clara's blog, that his sickness likely goes much, much deeper than I realize. And I do NOT want to EVER put a child in harm's way, let alone live a life of abuse and misery myself. I am thankful that God has not given us children yet, and I need to get out of this situation.
 
  • Prayers
Reactions: Endeavourer
Upvote 0

Endeavourer

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,712
1,469
Cloud 9
✟104,919.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
E, I cannot believe how some of the things about John in Clara's blog sound so much like my husband! I cannot stop reading this! It's so scary. :( This entry, especially!

Married to a Pedophile: The List and the Haunting Smirk!

I am so sorry about the similarities. I had a 6th (sick?) sense about this when I was reading your information.

What you have written in your post above shows you were being groomed to accept increasingly glaring behaviors - there were hints in your other posts, but you confirmed it very vividly in your last post.

The Lord gave you an opportunity to see things now and get out. It's really hard to travel through this slog, and may the Lord give you the strength to get through it.

Now, how about cancelling his participation in the Christmas plans? I.M.M.E.D.I.A.T.E.L.Y. Don't put yourself through that. Why should you do so? He's just going to get an opportunity to preen the heroic, charming and beloved son in the middle of your family. You know they'll treat him beautifully. Don't do it.
 
Upvote 0

DZoolander

Persnickety Member
Apr 24, 2007
7,279
2,114
Far far away
✟127,634.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
That's so weird to me that his mom was taking that position. She does him no favors, IMHO, in doing that.

My mom was the exact opposite. She never sided with me in an argument with anyone I dated...lol So far as she was concerned - if something was going wrong - it was my fault. That's not to say she didn't love me and support me, I just think she had a different type of perspective on things. She figured that by focusing on whatever I might have done to contribute to the situation - it helped me become more introspective and a better person.

Like when I divorced in my 20's over the BDSM stuff. I didn't tell anyone why I was divorcing her for a long time. The reason I didn't tell anyone was because I wasn't 100% sure at the time that everything was over. At least not ABSOLUTELY sure. Maybe she'd have a change of heart and stop with those things and we'd reconcile? Maybe I'd have a moment of weakness and we'd come to a compromise? Who knew what might happen? The last thing I wanted to have looming over some marriage that had continued was my folks thinking about her as being some bondage queen. So, I just told everyone I was divorcing, that my reasons were private, and to just leave me alone.

Well, for a year my mom badgered me - lol. The divorce was my fault, I needed to make amends on whatever it was, address what I had done wrong, fix things, etc. Finally - after a year - I sat her down and said basically "You need to stop with that. Here's why I divorced her." Her mouth dropped open - and she never said a word about it again.

So yeah - that's the kind of maternal relationship I was accustomed to. The fact your mother in law says that kind of stuff to him is kinda shocking to me - and certainly doesn't help with the situation.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 20, 2017
13
12
42
Tennessee
✟23,320.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just an update, for those who might wonder how things turned out. My husband continued to pursue lusts of the flesh and cheat on me. I gave him a choice to continue in his behavior and lose me or choose Jesus and be a faithful husband, and he abandoned our marriage, and moved to another state to pursue whatever his flesh desires. I am praying for him everyday and moving on with God's best for my life.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Does anyone else read these things and think "addiction to pornography" is an excuse??

Unless a clinical professional diagnosed him as a "pornography addict"....it sounds like his excuse for engaging in behavior that you don't approve of. Guys tend to be more visually oriented than females....I'm not saying that as an excuse, I'm saying that as biological fact.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...5/the-triggers-sexual-desire-men-vs-women?amp

So let's be clear....men can simply be sexually aroused by something they see far more easily than women. This is part of the reason why porn is so prevalent.

To call it an addiction is to insinuate something else though. There are similarities to addiction...the brain rewards behaviors with a release of endorphins and this can change neural pathways. Let's be clear though....there are people out there who are addicted to heroin and if they don't have their heroin on a regular basis they will become violently ill. Their bodies will go through a level of pain and discomfort that is hard to imagine. Their brains are changed for years and regular life seems all too dull and drab. It's extraordinarily different from "porn addiction". They may genuinely wish they could stop but after a few hours, or days, of withdrawal....their resolve dwindles to nothing. There are people who face alcohol addiction who will die if they stop drinking. They literally have to wean their bodies off the poison that's killing them.

Your husband won't face anything like that if he gives up porn....he'll simply think about sex and want to watch porn lol.

So I would suggest dismissing the whole "addiction excuse" unless he's been professionally diagnosed (which can lead to treatments).
 
Upvote 0

Dave G.

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
4,678
5,346
75
Sandiwich
✟377,895.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Just an update, for those who might wonder how things turned out. My husband continued to pursue lusts of the flesh and cheat on me. I gave him a choice to continue in his behavior and lose me or choose Jesus and be a faithful husband, and he abandoned our marriage, and moved to another state to pursue whatever his flesh desires. I am praying for him everyday and moving on with God's best for my life.
He has chosen a path of sin over life then, may the Lord work in his heart in due time. Lust can be overcome but we need Jesus to do it, it's a change in the heart more than the mind but as well as the mind. Don't let anyone beat you down sister. Somewhere along the way there is grace and mercy in this. My advise is you draw near to Jesus. Also, some people were only ever meant to be in our lives for a season. It may be your husbands season has ended or a new one beginning, only time will tell. I know that this has been a very difficult period for you though and that Jesus meets us best in times like this.. You know, my first wife was a cheater and in time divorced me for another guy but I then didn't have to wonder where she was at or doing anymore even though it was with a broken heart.. I always wanted to bring her to the Lord, I wasn't very effective at ministering to her ( terrible actually). But if we use the name of the Lord and they blatantly reject it then it's really out of our hands at that point. God Bless you.
 
Upvote 0