Britian leaving EU?

[Strong in Him]

The main argument in favour of leaving is sovereignty. Basically why should decisions be made in Brussels by unelected bureaucrats about Britains future.

Yes, that was my first thought, and on some level, it still is.
I'm really not sure now, though.

Those in favour of staying often stress the economic benefits, the costs of changing the current arrangement. The left wing in the UK see the socialist benefits and regulation of the EU reinforcing their own left wing instincts.

Yes, we don't know what it would be like if we left. It could take years to see any sort of change - in which time the £ could nose dive due to the uncertainty. And after all that, we COULD find out that the "Remain" camp were right after all.

I am 60-40 in favour of staying in because I think Britain needs the outward focus that the EU provides, that Europe together has a greater probability of peace and prosperity than a fragmented Europe and because I see a fragmented Europe as being more open to manipulation by rising powers with the global instability that that would then entail. I do believe that Europe needs reforming and that that reform is more likely to happen if Britain remains a member than if it leaves.

This makes sense too!
The real problem though is that no one can foresee the future. I don't just mean in terms of leaving - I have heard it said that the EU is insecure and in a bit of a mess and of course they don't want us to leave it, because we, and our money, can prop it up for a bit longer. The question is; is that true, or could it be true in a year or so?

 

[Meowzltov]

The main argument in favour of leaving is sovereignty.

Well after 200 years of the United States, I can safely say that Bigger is not Better. We were better off when the Federal system was small and the States were more powerful and independent, not simply just vassals of the Feds. We've become so Federalized that we've forgotten what the word State means. So whatever you choose to do, I hope that you do keep your sovereignty.

 

[Philip C]

these are exactly tyhe people I think of when I think of Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-group-photo-hitler-salute-buchenwald-twitter

Sorry Bethany but to refer to people who want out of EU as Nazis is totally out of order as well as inaccurate. In 1975 when we last had a referendum it was the Labour party that was divided with many on the left wanting out. Jeremy Corbyn wanted out as recently as last summer and even campaigned for that when he was running for leadership of the Labour party:

There are many others on the left politically who want out too:

http://www.labourleave.org/

Unless you think that Labour is Nazi then I think you need to withdraw your comment.

 

[Kalevalatar]

The Brits and the Greeks have one thing in common: both nations believe they are some sort of special snowflakes deserving extra-special treatment.

The British politicians seem to have a habit to blame it on the EU whenever political decision they have made for the UK backfires. Living in the EU member state Finland, I can but roll my eyes when British politicians claim the EU "forces" Britain to do this or that when the EU clearly "forces" EU fellow member state Finland to do none of that. Like granting asylum to known criminals: in Finland, it's deport, no ifs and buts. Or giving a Romanian family of sixteen a mansion of 15 room and £15,000 a month. Funny, how Finnish welfare state does not mandate any of that. What the EU does mandate is equality: if UK's bat crazy social security laws mandate that a jobless family be given £15,000 a month, then yes, any EU member state citizen is to be given the same. But the problem is not with the EU laws but with the domestic nanny-state laws. Same with immigration.

 

[florida2]

Yes, that was my first thought, and on some level, it still is.
I'm really not sure now, though.



Yes, we don't know what it would be like if we left. It could take years to see any sort of change - in which time the £ could nose dive due to the uncertainty. And after all that, we COULD find out that the "Remain" camp were right after all.



This makes sense too!
The real problem though is that no one can foresee the future. I don't just mean in terms of leaving - I have heard it said that the EU is insecure and in a bit of a mess and of course they don't want us to leave it, because we, and our money, can prop it up for a bit longer. The question is; is that true, or could it be true in a year or so?

The EU economy, and particularly those in the Eurozone, are doing worse than the rest of the world.

Do we want to cling onto a slowly sinking ship or look outwards more to the rest of the rapidly growing world economies? We won't stop trade with EU countries but we will be free to make trade deals with the rest of the world.

 

[Strong in Him]

The EU economy, and particularly those in the Eurozone, are doing worse than the rest of the world.

Do we want to cling onto a slowly sinking ship or look outwards more to the rest of the rapidly growing world economies? We won't stop trade with EU countries but we will be free to make trade deals with the rest of the world.

Thank you for this.
This does concern me; the possibility that we could vote to stay in the EU and it collapses anyway in a year or so. Are other countries keen for us to stay in only because our cash will prop them up for a bit longer?

I still don't understand much about it, but I do think that trade is trade. IF we have the 5th largest economy in the world and have products that people want to buy, they won't stop wanting to buy just because we aren't in the EU.

 

[4ntioch]

I wish they would leave, the EU has crafted some of it's materials after the tower of babylon.

 

[Jutta2]

I thank God that the British were so stupid as to leave the EU. Now there are no British UK more that in itself calls for special rights, no grumblers nation, no blockage from the UK, and what makes me happy as tourist, cheaper travel to Cornwall and Scotland. The British pound is at its lowest since 1985, stock prices are plummeting, and the British citizens noted that the populists have fooled because they have broken an important promise shortly after winning the election (money rather than in the EU, in the health system to pay as my mother said. Only the stupidest calves choose their butcher himself "In German it rhymes even again.. thank you for this really stupid decision, love Brits, we other Europeans are happy because now Europe can be social.

 

[Jutta2]

Question: Why want 1 Million Brits a second chance for a referendum? Answer: They woke up, and saw, what they had done.

 

[Strong in Him]

I thank God that the British were so stupid as to leave the EU.

Maybe it was God who wanted us to leave? Maybe he wants us to trust him and turn to him in times of uncertainty?

If Christians and church leaders were sincerely praying for wisdom and asking him to show us the way, we have to trust that he did that and he is in this and with us.

 

[Strong in Him]

Question: Why want 1 Million Brits a second chance for a referendum? Answer: They woke up, and saw, what they had done.

Or they were people who voted to Remain, and are bad losers.

 

[Jutta2]

Now it was in the news. More than 3 Million Brits want to have a new referendum. But I tell you what? Be out of the club, and Europe is doin well. Be in the club, and Europe got a lot of problems.

 

[Strong in Him]

Now it was in the news. More than 3 Million Brits want to have a new referendum. But I tell you what? Be out of the club, and Europe is doin well. Be in the club, and Europe got a lot of problems.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-06-26/creator-of-petition-for-eu-vote-re-run-is-a-leave-backer/

This petition was created a month before the referendum by someone who thought the UK would stay in and wanted to protest.
It has been taken over by Remainers - i.e those who lost.

The French and Dutch have already said they want referendums as well.
If the EU thinks it will lose more members, it will have to reform - even David Cameron says it has to reform. We are still in the EU, for at least 2 more years. Who knows how many other countries will be left by then?

 

[Meowzltov]

Question: Why want 1 Million Brits a second chance for a referendum? Answer: They woke up, and saw, what they had done.

Last night on 60 minutes, they said that there had been deceit; that they had been told the money would go to health care and it's not true.

 

[Strong in Him]

Last night on 60 minutes, they said that there had been deceit; that they had been told the money would go to health care and it's not true.

Yes, a statement was made that the £350 million that we would no longer send to the EU if we leave, could be given to the NHS. This claim was then displayed, in huge letters, on the side of a campaign bus, and probably on posters too.
The day after the referendum, someone said that it wouldn't be possible to give that amount of money to the NHS after all.

But I don't think our EU contribution was that much anyway; we got some rebates.

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

Way to go UK.

 

[Philip C]

Last night on 60 minutes, they said that there had been deceit; that they had been told the money would go to health care and it's not true.

To be honest there has been a fair amount of deception on both sides. Some in favor of 'Remain' tried to scare the public with stories of global recession, collapse of the UK economy, millions out of work and even war. Obviously there is some uncertainty and that is effecting the markets but as at the time of writing FTSE 100 is above 6,250 and to put that in context it's been as low as 5,550 and as high as 6,795 in the last year. In the week before the referendum it peaked at just over 6,300 so the effect has not been earth shattering (interestingly the French, German, Italian and particularly the Spanish stock markets have all fared worse).

The campaign on both sides was depressingly negative and seemed to focus around the economy and immigration neither of which was the deciding factor for me. I decided early on that I was voting for 'Leave' and it all comes down to democracy. About 60-80% of new legislation in the UK originates from the EU Commission which is an unelected body of professional bureaucrats which nobody voted for and with no capacity to vote people out if you don't like it. I'm not saying the way we do democracy in the UK is faultless (it certainly isn't) but given the choice between imperfect democracy and unelected bureaucracy I'll always go for democracy - as this result shows democracy (even an imperfect one) can actually change things.

 

[Jutta2]

As interested European, I had watched the whole debate in the UK before and after Proposed referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union. The lies and half-truths were on the side of the proponents of the EU's removal, while supporters of staying in the EU, for fear of the economic consequences for UK that scenario exaggerated. Now Britain wants to leave the EU, and is facing a lot of problems. Scotland wants to secede from the United Kingdom, and this time they will succeed. Ireland and Northern Ireland will unite, and thus Northern Ireland is separate from the UK. From "Great" can then be no question!
This will be bad enough alone. Worse, I feel, what will happen to the site for the UK economy. Many companies think aloud about to leave England because the connection to the EU is no longer given. EU funds are no longer flowing, but England will be on their own. But how will the government pay for everything when companies migrate to Europe, and unemployment is rising? How will England without the workers from the EU countries survive, for example, work as harvesters for low wages (below the minimum wage), where British workers themselves were too fine for this dirty work?
And another thing: In more than 40 years Membership of "Great" Britain has always demanded special rights for themselves, and get (what I think is a big mistake), but boycotted all the EU projects. And now the leaders want to return special rights, on the Swiss model. Only, Switzerland was never a member of the EU. They has not paid, but receive much, so as the EU. That will not happen for the British! They want out? Okay, then they pay the price for it!

 

[Strong in Him]

As interested European, I had watched the whole debate in the UK before and after Proposed referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union. The lies and half-truths were on the side of the proponents of the EU's removal, while supporters of staying in the EU, for fear of the economic consequences for UK that scenario exaggerated. Now Britain wants to leave the EU, and is facing a lot of problems. Scotland wants to secede from the United Kingdom, and this time they will succeed. Ireland and Northern Ireland will unite, and thus Northern Ireland is separate from the UK. From "Great" can then be no question!
This will be bad enough alone. Worse, I feel, what will happen to the site for the UK economy. Many companies think aloud about to leave England because the connection to the EU is no longer given. EU funds are no longer flowing, but England will be on their own. But how will the government pay for everything when companies migrate to Europe, and unemployment is rising? How will England without the workers from the EU countries survive, for example, work as harvesters for low wages (below the minimum wage), where British workers themselves were too fine for this dirty work?
And another thing: In more than 40 years Membership of "Great" Britain has always demanded special rights for themselves, and get (what I think is a big mistake), but boycotted all the EU projects. And now the leaders want to return special rights, on the Swiss model. Only, Switzerland was never a member of the EU. They has not paid, but receive much, so as the EU. That will not happen for the British! They want out? Okay, then they pay the price for it!

Yes, a lot of that may be true; the fact is that we still don't know.

If we'd voted to stay in the EU, that might not have stopped France, Holland and others, from wanting their own referendums - if the UK get to vote; why shouldn't we? One or more of them might have voted to leave. Then the UK would be in a weakened EU, and might have been left with paying their contribution.
It is pretty much accepted that the UK, which includes Scotland, are leaving the EU; the leaders have already met and held some talks without David Cameron. My understanding is that because Scotland was in the UK when we decided, they will leave with us. If they were to hold a second referendum and leave the UK, then could apply to join the EU. But, again my understanding, they will have to start from scratch, have debates about currency and not benefit from any of the deals that the UK did.

Yes the UK might be worse off, in the short term, but long term; who knows? We are still IN Europe just not part of the political union. We are also still in the Commonwealth, Nato etc. We can now do deals with other countries, and since the referendum some people have admitted that, yes, we can survive outside the EU.
In a few years time we might be saying "that was the worst thing we ever did" - or, in a few years time the EU might have collapsed and need rebuilding and other countries could be saying "thank you Britain for being brave enough to lead the way". We just don't know.
Scripture says that there is a time to tear down and a time to rebuild - how do we know that this wasn't the right time to tear down?

And it's rather insulting to say that the British are "too fine" for the work of harvesting.

 

[Meowzltov]

As interested European, I had watched the whole debate in the UK before and after Proposed referendum on United Kingdom membership of the European Union. The lies and half-truths were on the side of the proponents of the EU's removal, while supporters of staying in the EU, for fear of the economic consequences for UK that scenario exaggerated. Now Britain wants to leave the EU, and is facing a lot of problems. Scotland wants to secede from the United Kingdom, and this time they will succeed. Ireland and Northern Ireland will unite, and thus Northern Ireland is separate from the UK. From "Great" can then be no question!
This will be bad enough alone. Worse, I feel, what will happen to the site for the UK economy. Many companies think aloud about to leave England because the connection to the EU is no longer given. EU funds are no longer flowing, but England will be on their own. But how will the government pay for everything when companies migrate to Europe, and unemployment is rising? How will England without the workers from the EU countries survive, for example, work as harvesters for low wages (below the minimum wage), where British workers themselves were too fine for this dirty work?
And another thing: In more than 40 years Membership of "Great" Britain has always demanded special rights for themselves, and get (what I think is a big mistake), but boycotted all the EU projects. And now the leaders want to return special rights, on the Swiss model. Only, Switzerland was never a member of the EU. They has not paid, but receive much, so as the EU. That will not happen for the British! They want out? Okay, then they pay the price for it!

Ireland has needed to be united for a long time, and for the life of me I've never understood why Scotland wasn't independent. It seems to me it's all been part of England hanging on to being dominant, but what do I know. I'm glad America stays out of their business and lets them work it out on their own.