Bring it on Atheists!!!

[tergail]

My goodness did I hit a nerve or what?
NO I don't like to debate because of exactly what you people are doing here right now. You are checking out all my other posts and for what reason? I'm not going around seeing what other kind of posts all of you have made. It's NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!! Just like what I do is none of yours.
We have different opinions on many different topics. I come on CHRISTIAN FORUMS to fellowship with other CHRISTIANS. I only, by a very big mistake happened to come across this thread and saw a young man making a statement that I'm sure with his youthful knowledge is in no position to match any of you in a debate. So I simply tried to give him a little bit of advice about debating this topic.
I have done my research and read many articles and listened to many scientists discuss this topic. I believe one way and you another - so be it. Let's leave it at that.
But please, answer one question - why do you come to a CHRISTIAN FORUM????

 

[Skaloop]

But please, answer one question - why do you come to a CHRISTIAN FORUM????

I'm not going to get involved in the rest of it, but I can offer some insight to this point. I specifically chose a Christian forum to come to debate evolution for a few reasons.

1) To match wits with people who believe in Creationism.
2) To sharpen my anti-Creationism debate skills.
3) To get more information on the Creationist stance (sort of a "know thine enemy" thing).
4) To, hopefully, educate some misinformed Creationists.

And Christian forums seem to be pretty much the only places around where there are actually a decent number of people who still believe Creationist drivel. Go to an actual evolution forum, and it's just one guy who doesn't know what he's talking about. Here, there are bunches of them, so it's a lot more fulfilling to debate the issues and try to break through the ignorance. Also, around here there are a large number of people better educated in evolution than I, and I can learn from them.

 

[Dannager]

My goodness did I hit a nerve or what?

Er...maybe? I thought you weren't coming back here. Because you don't like to debate.

NO I don't like to debate because of exactly what you people are doing here right now. You are checking out all my other posts and for what reason?

Because they shed light on your position.

I'm not going around seeing what other kind of posts all of you have made. It's NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!!

Uhm...what? If you have a problem with people being able to find your posts, you really shouldn't be posting on a public board like this. Anyone can find all your posts with just a few clicks.

Just like what I do is none of yours.

If what you post here is relevant to a discussion we're participating in, it may very well be our business.

We have different opinions on many different topics. I come on CHRISTIAN FORUMS to fellowship with other CHRISTIANS.

There is an Origins Theology board in the Christians-only section you may be more comfortable with.

I only, by a very big mistake happened to come across this thread and saw a young man making a statement that I'm sure with his youthful knowledge is in no position to match any of you in a debate. So I simply tried to give him a little bit of advice about debating this topic.

I'm sure he appreciated it. It turns out that some of your advice, however, is incorrect.

I have done my research and read many articles and listened to many scientists discuss this topic. I believe one way and you another - so be it. Let's leave it at that.

Except that what we believe (or, more properly, accept) is supported by empirical evidence and what you believe is not.

But please, answer one question - why do you come to a CHRISTIAN FORUM????

Primarily because I feel that the anti-intellectualism apparent in today's Christian society is one of the most damning obstacles facing our faith, and that the aversion to evolution is one of the most easily identifiable examples of this anti-intellectualism. In other words, I come here to change creationists' minds for the good of Christianity.

 

[OdwinOddball]

My goodness did I hit a nerve or what?
NO I don't like to debate because of exactly what you people are doing here right now. You are checking out all my other posts and for what reason? I'm not going around seeing what other kind of posts all of you have made. It's NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!! Just like what I do is none of yours.
We have different opinions on many different topics. I come on CHRISTIAN FORUMS to fellowship with other CHRISTIANS. I only, by a very big mistake happened to come across this thread and saw a young man making a statement that I'm sure with his youthful knowledge is in no position to match any of you in a debate. So I simply tried to give him a little bit of advice about debating this topic.
I have done my research and read many articles and listened to many scientists discuss this topic. I believe one way and you another - so be it. Let's leave it at that.
But please, answer one question - why do you come to a CHRISTIAN FORUM????

Because pepole like yourself say the silly things that you do, then refuse to back it up, expect me to believe you on faith, and then turn around and try to turn it into policy, governmentally and elsewhere.

We didn't dig back through your posting history, we responded to your posts one by one on these threads. And rather than even try to explain your thinking, substantiate your claims, or make even the smallest attempt to engage in conversation, you ducked and dodged, and are now throwing a little fit because we actually have substantiated objections to what you posted.

Sorry, if you expect us all to bow down and accept you as all knowing, but in a science based forum, whether its a sub forum of a Christian site or not, evidence is the deciding factor.

The evidence is in. The Theory of Evolution is currently the best explanation for the development of life on earth. You can hide from that all you want by avoiding these discussions, but it does not change this fact. You can attempt to build an argument against it, but it better have evidence to support it.

Crying about it isn't going to help, it just makes your position look weak.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Poe ??

I don't think so.

What I do think is the fact that I know exactly what you mean by this shows I spend far too much time debating religion, philosophy and politics on the internet to be normal.

peace

 

[rmwilliamsll]

NO I don't like to debate because of exactly what you people are doing here right now. You are checking out all my other posts and for what reason? I'm not going around seeing what other kind of posts all of you have made. It's NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!! Just like what I do is none of yours.

if you believe that, then turn the function off.
if i am going to discuss something with someone, i want to know as much as i can about them. just as i research the topic, i will research the login name and expect people to do the same for me. that is all part of the process of debate and discussion. if you don't like the way people do things here, then you know the solution. and it is not to tell us how to argue.

everyone has a right to their opinion, but no one has a right to demand that i take their opinion seriously unless they have done their homework --Pastor H. Braum.

simply put: why should i come to a knife fight if i have a gun? i am not stupid, why would i tie one hand behind my back for this knife fight if i forgot to wear my gun today?

We have different opinions on many different topics. I come on CHRISTIAN FORUMS to fellowship with other CHRISTIANS.

fellowship forums exist.
so does a forum open only to Christians on the creation debate- Origin theology. it has a protected forum for YECists only. perhaps you will find it more to your comfort zone.


I have done my research and read many articles and listened to many scientists discuss this topic. I believe one way and you another - so be it. Let's leave it at that.

i have yet to meet a YECists that i consider well researched and informed on the issues. perhaps you will be the first, but i sincerely doubt it.


But please, answer one question - why do you come to a CHRISTIAN FORUM????

this is a scientific forum open to anyone.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

What I do think is the fact that I know exactly what you mean by this shows I spend far too much time debating religion, philosophy and politics on the internet to be normal

the first step to recovery is to acknowledge that you have a problem. the second step is to go to amazon and buy a book on the topic *grin* even if the problem is too much reading, well especially if the problem is too much reading......


god does not subtract from man's allotted time on earth
the time spent---reading.

 

[Beastt]

My goodness did I hit a nerve or what?
NO I don't like to debate because of exactly what you people are doing here right now. You are checking out all my other posts and for what reason?

I counted one person checking and another defending you.

I'm not going around seeing what other kind of posts all of you have made. It's NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!! Just like what I do is none of yours.
We have different opinions on many different topics. I come on CHRISTIAN FORUMS to fellowship with other CHRISTIANS. I only, by a very big mistake happened to come across this thread and saw a young man making a statement that I'm sure with his youthful knowledge is in no position to match any of you in a debate. So I simply tried to give him a little bit of advice about debating this topic.

And also stated rather strongly that we were wrong and he was right. Then you refused to defend your position. If you walked by two people engaged in a debate on the street and put your two-cents in for either side, the other side might well expect you to defend your statements and not keep right on walking. Your tactic was something of a hit and run and elicited the expected response.

I have done my research and read many articles and listened to many scientists discuss this topic. I believe one way and you another - so be it. Let's leave it at that.

Great. Then you should have all the material you need to defend the position you take.

But please, answer one question - why do you come to a CHRISTIAN FORUM????

Certainly.

I come here because Christianity, (and religion in general), is very harmful. It teaches people that there is an ultimate authority and that this ultimate authority finds favor with them simply for their belief in the existence of this authority. It leaves them feeling more worthy and wiser than others even when it is clear that others may have an intellectual edge. It suggest to them that there are certain people they should hold great distaste for and practice prejudices against. It tells them that of all the sentient life on the planet, they are the favorite of this ultimate authority and therefore have the right to inflict great harm upon the other sentient members of Earth, even to include death. And in following these false teachings, great harm is done to the environment that we should be sharing, rather than destroying.

If I can help even one or two others to see the harm, perhaps they too will attempt to open this view to others and in so doing, will each do their part to limit the damage, the pain, the suffering, the persecution and the willful ignorance promoted through unfounded, unverified and unevidenced beliefs.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Originally Posted by rmwilliamsll
someday i will find someone who says this and POOF! gone from CF. until then, i'm going to figure it is merely a shallow debate technique.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but I don't see the "weirdness" in that post you linked.

She states that she doesn't like to debate (which might or might not be a sign of a weak position on subject X). She evidently does like to post in fellowship threads. I don't see any contradiction in that? Someone with a dislike for debate can like general banter.

thanks and rep points for the correction. i should have looked to be sure it was in the: Discussion & Debate section.

but the point is mute.
"tergail" returned to the thread.

i see this technique "i don't debate so i'm leaving now after saying this last thing" on a daily basis and it is getting just a bit worn. the oxymoron character of posting that in a forum dedicated to: Discussion & Debate, is just too important not to point out and stress that it is nothing more than a mildly dishonest debate tactic. mildly dishonest because your straightforward intention is not to listen to anyone's replies. this is little different from those that come here to preach and state baldly that they have no particular knowledge of the subject material, nor any real interest in the debate but are here to preach at us.

 

[boboChristian333]

You guys are right, I should have done my reserch before I came on here. So, I am sorry that I created such an arguement here when I originally came here just to find out about peoples ideas on evolution. And yes I am also sorry that I was taught wrong...my fault? Anyway I didnt mean to sound angry or mad when I posted this (actually I looked back and read what I posted yesterday and it sounds extremely imature), I was very tired, and I should have waited until the next day to post something, and not make it sound so childish. So, once again, I am very sorry.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

You guys are right, I should have done my reserch before I came on here. So, I am sorry that I created such an arguement here when I originally came here just to find out about peoples ideas on evolution. And yes I am also sorry that I was taught wrong...my fault? Anyway I didnt mean to sound angry or mad when I posted this (actually I looked back and read what I posted yesterday and it sounds extremely imature), I was very tired, and I should have waited until the next day to post something, and not make it sound so childish. So, once again, I am very sorry.

No need to apologise. Unfortunately, the internet can often bring out the worst and most cynical side in us, and we become closed-off and unwilling to assume the best of others. There is little in your post that necessarily indicates any bad feeling or hidden agenda on your part. But when people are so insincere on the internet, other tend to assume to same of everyone.

It all tends to be a bit dehumanising, so I wouldn't take any criticism you receive here or elsewhere too seriously.

peace

 

[rmwilliamsll]

dont' be sorry.
be prepared.

a good defense is better than a sincere apology. besides you learn more from failure than success.

and remember:
it is often easier and quicker to ask for forgiveness than permission. but to be right means you don't have to ask for either. *grin*

 

[Dracil]

Atheists? Do you realize the majority of the Christians in the world accept evolution. The US and Australia are exceptions rather than the rule.

 

[Dannager]

You guys are right, I should have done my reserch before I came on here. So, I am sorry that I created such an arguement here when I originally came here just to find out about peoples ideas on evolution. And yes I am also sorry that I was taught wrong...my fault? Anyway I didnt mean to sound angry or mad when I posted this (actually I looked back and read what I posted yesterday and it sounds extremely imature), I was very tired, and I should have waited until the next day to post something, and not make it sound so childish. So, once again, I am very sorry.

It's not your fault that you had people telling you things that were untrue. You are not at all to blame for that. The burden is on you, however, to correct those errors in your understanding once they're pointed out to you. I'm glad that you're willing to do that. Cheers.

 

[EvoDan]

But please, answer one question - why do you come to a CHRISTIAN FORUM????

Because the Watch Tower folks won't come to the door anymore.

 

[Dracil]

No, the better question is why do people who ask that question use the secular internet?

 

[Lisa0315]

You guys are right, I should have done my reserch before I came on here. So, I am sorry that I created such an arguement here when I originally came here just to find out about peoples ideas on evolution. And yes I am also sorry that I was taught wrong...my fault? Anyway I didnt mean to sound angry or mad when I posted this (actually I looked back and read what I posted yesterday and it sounds extremely imature), I was very tired, and I should have waited until the next day to post something, and not make it sound so childish. So, once again, I am very sorry.

Good for you. This is truly Christ-like, and if there were enough Christians like THIS, then, atheists may have to consider it evidence of SOMETHING.

We are very fortunate here at CF. The athiests here are very smart, very polite, and very respectful.

Welcome to CF. We need more Christians like you here.

Lisa

 

[Ed Vidence]

I hope this is tongue in cheek. Cuz, if it ain't, I need to see a TRUE atheist, please.

Lisa

In other words you have no answer.

Writers mean what they say and say what they mean unless they indicate otherwise.

EV

 

[Lisa0315]

In other words you have no answer.

Writers mean what they say and say what they mean unless they indicate otherwise.

EV

Oh, boy Ed, I didn't realize you were a newbie also. This is something that I learned from atheists, okay. I didn't come up with this, but it is true, none the less.

There is something called The No True Scotsman fallacy. I am sure that someone else can explain it better than I can. Essentially, it means that you cannot say that someone is not a true something or is a true something unless you have a perfect example to measure by. So, if you said for example, "No True Scotsman would eat English porridge", you can see how that might be a problem, right?

So, when I asked you for a "true" atheist, this is what I was referring to. There is no such thing, although...Christians, imo, CAN say what a TRUE Christian is or is not because WE have a perfect example.

Google for No True Scotsman fallacy and you will likely get a better example than I am giving.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html#scots

Here I did it for you...

Lisa