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Eudaimonist

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There are many many scientists today who are moving away from these 2 thoeries.

Actually, no, there aren't. The theories are just as strong among the experts as ever -- in fact, even more so.

There is no hard core proof or evidence that either of these thories are correct. They are exactly what they are called "thoeries".

This is not why they are called theories. Theories in science are models that have strong evidential support.

I have seen many studies that have been done where these scientists are starting to believe in creation.

Are these former Evolutionists and Big Bangists, or are these new Creationists who have striven to enter the scientific fields?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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OdwinOddball

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There are many many scientists today who are moving away from these 2 thoeries. They are starting to see that they just don't make any sense. There is no hard core proof or evidence that either of these thories are correct. They are exactly what they are called "thoeries". Many people cannot accept the fact that there is one God who created everything. This does not make sense to them and just cannot be correct. Just as we feel there "thoeries" cannot be correct. But again. Many scientists today have changed there opinion on this. I have seen many studies that have been done where these scientists are starting to believe in creation.
My suggestion to you bobochristian is to do more study on these topics. Be ready to argue and prove why they cannot be correct. Research these new studies that have been done and use the new research to state your case. Be very careful about posting generalized statements about this argument on here. There are many who are ready to prove you wrong and feel they have the proof. But again it is all thoeries! So please do some research of your own and then come back ready to debate with your proof! This is a very heated topic and even harder when you are not prepared to stand behind your statements!

Since you make it a point to say your should stand behind your statements, I call upon you to do exactly that.

What are these 'studies' you have seen?

Which scientists are moving towards Creationism?

You do realize that those that oppose the ToE have been saying exactly what you said for the last 150 years right? And that it was just as false during that time as it is today?

The Theory of Evolution is one of the most strongly evidenced theories in all of science. Even such basics as Gravity do not have as much supporting evidence as the ToE.

Scientifically,t here is really no valid way to disagree with evolution. The objections pretty well always stem from Religious and personal bias and not actual science.
 
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Mystman

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Many people cannot accept the fact that there is one God who created everything.

Evidence for that please?

As far as I know, all you have is a 2000 year old book and some statements of "well I feel all warm and fuzzy when I pray".

edit: oh and lets not forget the famous "There is only a 10% chance of person X surviving disease Y. He survived it! Clear proof of God!"
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Evidence for that please?

As far as I know, all you have is a 2000 year old book and some statements of "well I feel all warm and fuzzy when I pray".

edit: oh and lets not forget the famous "There is only a 10% chance of person X surviving disease Y. He survived it! Clear proof of God!"

This isn't GA Myst. That stuff belongs in GA.
 
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Mystman

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This isn't GA Myst. That stuff belongs in GA.

"...there is one God who created everything."

That is the very definition of Creationism. I know that most people are only interested in attacking/defending the ToE around here, and there is the occasional attack on Noah's flood / a young earth, but I would be pleasantly surprised if someone took the time to defend Creationism now and then, even if that includes needing to proof the existence of God.
 
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thaumaturgy

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but I would be pleasantly surprised if someone took the time to defend Creationism now and then, even if that includes needing to proof the existence of God.

"From your mouth to God's ear" as they say!

I would dearly love to see a creationist make a positive claim (testable, obviously) about Creationism rather than the usual "Poke a hole in a single outlier in the data and declare Creationism as true because of that."

THIS is why Creationists will never get their stuff accepted even as a rational scientific endeavor... they never propose an hypothesis, but rather find outlier data (the vast minority of data) and then propose a ginned-up "Creationist alternative" that would require more twisting of physical laws than would be possible, and then walk away as if they've provided something of value to the scientific community!

If Creationists want to be taken seriously in the sciences they need to do science.
 
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tergail

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Since you make it a point to say your should stand behind your statements, I call upon you to do exactly that.

I will have to regretfully decline your invitation for a debate. I have been involved in one too many and choose not to do it anymore. There is too much anger that comes with it from others. (not that I am saying you are angry but it never fails that there will be one or more who cannot have a friendly debate.) My only reason for posting here was to advise bobochristian to be ready to stand behind his statements. I don't want to see him attacked the way he has been already with no defense to stand up to it.

The Theory of Evolution is one of the most strongly evidenced theories in all of science. Even such basics as Gravity do not have as much supporting evidence as the ToE.

Why is that so many schools today are choosing not to teach the theory of evolution or are warning students that it is not fact but a throry and to take it as that.

Scientifically,t here is really no valid way to disagree with evolution. The objections pretty well always stem from Religious and personal bias and not actual science.

Scientifically there is no concrete proof that the theory of evolution is fact and the only truth. So until there is concrete evidence that that is how it happened then yes there is reason to disagree with it.

But again. I will not be back to this thread because I will not debate this. I stated my reasons for coming here to begin with and it was not for a debate.
bobchristian - be careful with your comments. Especially if you cannot back them up!

Have fun debating y'all!!
 
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Pikachu

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I will have to regretfully decline your invitation for a debate. I have been involved in one too many and choose not to do it anymore. There is too much anger that comes with it from others. (not that I am saying you are angry but it never fails that there will be one or more who cannot have a friendly debate.)

I don't think he was actually proposing a debate. Just some evidence to back up the blind assertions you presented would suffice.

My only reason for posting here was to advise bobochristian to be ready to stand behind his statements. I don't want to see him attacked the way he has been already with no defense to stand up to it.

Attacked? Don't you mean simply "corrected"?

Why is that so many schools today are choosing not to teach the theory of evolution or are warning students that it is not fact but a throry and to take it as that.

Mainly because of pressure from right-wing, ultra-conservative religious freaks who have very little knowledge of science putting political pressure on school systems.

Scientifically there is no concrete proof that the theory of evolution is fact and the only truth. So until there is concrete evidence that that is how it happened then yes there is reason to disagree with it.

Scientifically, there is no concrete proof that the theory of creation is fact and the only truth. So until there is concrete evidence that is how it happened then yes there is reason to disagree with it.

But again. I will not be back to this thread because I will not debate this. I stated my reasons for coming here to begin with and it was not for a debate.

You can not debate this. All the evidence is on the side of the theory of evolution, whereas there is not a shred of scientific data that points to some sky-monster just magically wishing everyting into existence.

bobchristian - be careful with your comments. Especially if you cannot back them up!
Have fun debating y'all!!

Yes, please do, on both counts!
 
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Dannager

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Why is that so many schools today are choosing not to teach the theory of evolution or are warning students that it is not fact but a throry and to take it as that.
I'm not aware of any public school bodies that fall into this category. A Kansas school district made headlines a few years ago for instituting a policy which requires the teaching of Intelligent Design alongside evolutionary theory, but after that was made public the decision was quickly reversed when the public voted the members of the school board who supported Intelligent Design out of office.
Scientifically there is no concrete proof that the theory of evolution is fact and the only truth.
Science does not deal with proof. It deals with evidence.
So until there is concrete evidence that that is how it happened then yes there is reason to disagree with it.
There is concrete evidence. Evolution is fact. We know it occurs and we have observed speciation.

Simply put, someone along the way has lied to you, repeatedly.
But again. I will not be back to this thread because I will not debate this. I stated my reasons for coming here to begin with and it was not for a debate.
bobchristian - be careful with your comments. Especially if you cannot back them up!
If you cannot back them up, ask yourself why you support them?
 
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aerophagicbricolage

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I don't understand how people could believe in all this "evolution" and "big bang" stuff. When scientists say that we are related to monkeys, IM NOT A MONKEY!!! I dont know how or where they got that rubish from. I mean, just because they have fingers like us doesnt mean that we evolved from them. Dogs have eyes, we do to, fish have lips, so do we. Im just sayin, how on earth did evolution occur if there are still monkeys around? Dont you think that the monkeys woulf be evolved like us too? So why arent they? Tell me that. Also this big bang crud. I mean, your telling me that I was created from some rock that smashed into another rock? Go outside and find two rocks, smash them together as hard as you can, then tell me if humans pop out.

Anyone is free to make their own opinions on my above statements.

-God Bless!:amen:
The fingers certainly are pretty good evidence. (Not really, that was actually you creating a straw man argument) But not as good as, say, the fact we share around 98% of our DNA in common with chimps. Deny the fact that we descended from the same common ancestor as chimpanzees all you want; we are approximately 98% the the same animal.
 
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RealityCheck

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It also has nothing to do with two rocks banging together. I'm also never going to understand how that became the accepted defenition of the Big Bang among the fundie creationist circles.


I pin the blame for this on Kent Hovind.
 
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cerad

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Hey, hey, we're all Monkees
And people say we monkey around.
But we're too busy evolving
To put anybody down.

We're just tryin' to be friendly,
Come and watch us sing and play,
We're the rational generation,
And we've got something to say.

Hey, hey, we're all Monkees
Hey, hey, we're all Monkees
Rock and Grow
 
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OdwinOddball

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I will have to regretfully decline your invitation for a debate. I have been involved in one too many and choose not to do it anymore. There is too much anger that comes with it from others. (not that I am saying you are angry but it never fails that there will be one or more who cannot have a friendly debate.) My only reason for posting here was to advise bobochristian to be ready to stand behind his statements. I don't want to see him attacked the way he has been already with no defense to stand up to it.

I am not asking for a debate, I am asking you to do exactly what you just told bobo to do. Back up your statements with references to these supposed "studies" you have seen.


Why is that so many schools today are choosing not to teach the theory of evolution or are warning students that it is not fact but a throry and to take it as that.
Because unfortunately being a member for a school board does not require any form of special education, you just have to get elected. And then people like yourself put pressure on these boards to reject evolution and include creationism not because you have any evidence to back up your view but because you are uncomfortable with Evolution, generally due to lack of understanding of the subject.



Scientifically there is no concrete proof that the theory of evolution is fact and the only truth. So until there is concrete evidence that that is how it happened then yes there is reason to disagree with it.

Scientifically there is no concrete proof of anything, as concrete proof is not scientific. Science deals with evidence, and the theories derived to explain the evidence. As the saying goes "Proof is for mathematics and alcohol".

You seem to have the common misconception as to what science is and what a scientific theory is. Hint, in science theory does not mean guess.

But again. I will not be back to this thread because I will not debate this. I stated my reasons for coming here to begin with and it was not for a debate.
bobchristian - be careful with your comments. Especially if you cannot back them up!

Have fun debating y'all!!

Seems to be a common pattern with many creationists. Much easier to keep your head in the sand and avoid confrontation. No chance you might actually learn the reality of the situation that way. But c'est la vie.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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I will have to regretfully decline your invitation for a debate. I have been involved in one too many and choose not to do it anymore.

and

But again. I will not be back to this thread because I will not debate this. I stated my reasons for coming here to begin with and it was not for a debate.*

this is such a common statement. "i came to this discussion forum not to debate but to ______".

so i'm going to look at the user's profiles and see what they have done online since posting this:

for tergail:
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=31120577#post31120577
was posted after these words were written.

someday i will find someone who says this and POOF! gone from CF. until then, i'm going to figure it is merely a shallow debate technique.

notes:
*fixed duplicate quotations.
 
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Beastt

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I will have to regretfully decline your invitation for a debate. I have been involved in one too many and choose not to do it anymore. There is too much anger that comes with it from others. (not that I am saying you are angry but it never fails that there will be one or more who cannot have a friendly debate.) My only reason for posting here was to advise bobochristian to be ready to stand behind his statements. I don't want to see him attacked the way he has been already with no defense to stand up to it.
Why would you advise anyone to stand by assertions which you seem to realize can't be defended?

Why is that so many schools today are choosing not to teach the theory of evolution or are warning students that it is not fact but a throry and to take it as that.
There's no mystery to this at all. It's because Creationists have infiltrated school boards in a few, (not "many"), areas and are demanding that creationism, which can't even qualify as a theory, be taught alongside evolution which is one of the best evidenced and supported of scientific theories.

And it would seem that you may have fallen for the standard creationist spin on what science does, what a theory is and your apparent belief that some scientific theories are eventually dubbed "fact".

A theory is the pinnacle of scientific credibility. You simply can't elevate beyond theory. Take gravity for instance. The Theory of gravity has been around for centuries and no one seems to doubt that such a force exists. And since people aren't prompted by their religious pursuits to disbelief in gravity, no one seems to have a problem with the fact that the theory of gravity is just a theory. And not only is it "just a theory", it is lagging far behind evolution from an evidential standpoint. We can demonstrate and show evidence consistent with evolution far more than we can for gravity. So why do you not object to the theory of gravity? Most likely because your religious affiliation has no argument with it. I find it amazing that creationists don't seem to note that the only places where they feel science has missed the mark are in precisely those same areas where the Bible can be interpreted to say otherwise. Wherever the Bible makes no reference, creationists have no problem with science. It is only where the Bible comments on scientific fields that creationists believe that science is wrong. That's a fairly amazing coincidence, is it not?

Scientifically there is no concrete proof that the theory of evolution is fact and the only truth.
That's because science doesn't deal in facts. It never has and it never will. Science deals in evidence and the conclusion found to be in complete agreement with the evidence. Creationism is decidedly inconsistent with the evidence. Evolution is fully consistent with the evidence. Therefore, evolution is a theory and creationism is unable to qualify even as a hypothesis. The evidence shows creationism to be wrong and evolution to be completely probable.

So until there is concrete evidence that that is how it happened then yes there is reason to disagree with it.
As pointed out, there is less concrete evidence in support of the theory of gravity than for evolution. Evolution is one of the better evidenced scientific theories. And if science currently holds a complex process to be true, it means it's a theory. So do you also disagree with the theory of gravity?

But again. I will not be back to this thread because I will not debate this. I stated my reasons for coming here to begin with and it was not for a debate.
Will not or can not?

bobchristian - be careful with your comments. Especially if you cannot back them up!

Have fun debating y'all!!
Bobchristian has a choice. He can either listen, evaluate and learn or close his ears and eyes and believe only the misguided information he's been provided with and demonstrates in the OP.

It's more than a bit irresponsible to tell him to do the latter.
 
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Aggie

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For some reason I find it really amusing that someone named "Bobo", for whom the pinnacle or science involves banging two rocks together, is unable to accept that he's related to a monkey.

This thread has just given me an idea for a new character in my comic series.
 
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Mystman

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someday i will find someone who says this and POOF! gone from CF. until then, i'm going to figure it is merely a shallow debate technique.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but I don't see the "weirdness" in that post you linked.

She states that she doesn't like to debate (which might or might not be a sign of a weak position on subject X). She evidently does like to post in fellowship threads. I don't see any contradiction in that? Someone with a dislike for debate can like general banter.
 
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