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In my experience of the Anglican Church (which may not be the same as yours) you could be a complete heretic and still remain an Anglican in good standing. There is absolutely no guarding of the chalice (for the sake of those who would be communing unworthily) so it seems to me that there is no real belief that the bread and wine become Christ's body and blood. If there was, they would be a lot more careful about who they allowed to receive.
In my experience of the Anglican Church (which may not be the same as yours) you could be a complete heretic and still remain an Anglican in good standing. There is absolutely no guarding of the chalice (for the sake of those who would be communing unworthily) so it seems to me that there is no real belief that the bread and wine become Christ's body and blood. If there was, they would be a lot more careful about who they allowed to receive.
yep, John Shelby Spong denies the Incarnation, the Resurrection, thinks St Paul was a sexist homophobe, and was never defrocked or deposed. in fact, many Anglicans, to include folks I know from when I grew up, think he is a necessary voice for the "modern" Church.
Hi everybody, I'm Nathan and I'm Anglican... I've always been fascinated by the traditional Orthodox beliefs. I wanted to know is there some kind of dialogue between Anglican/Catholic and Orthodox ongoing?
The chalice is not guarded to protect God from sinful people, but rather to protect sinful people from God. You do realise (or perhaps you don't), that only those Orthodox who have properly prepared themselves are allowed to receive Holy Communion in the Orthodox Church.I would say that the reasons for a different attitude to guarding the chalice come from other ideas. Part I would say is a feeling among many that God is not in need of their protection - I have heard many people express that view.
I would say he is increasingly irrelevant. Too many of the things he predicted have not come to pass. He was big on the idea that radical liberalization would bring massive converts, and of course it didn't. It is hard even for those who might be inclined that way to miss that. And his theology is going out of style, as peculiar as that may sound. He appeals to baby boomers.
There are also many Anglicans who don't even consider him a Christian, and think he should have been defrocked years ago.
He's probably a good example of a particular sort of problem (the Episcopals not getting rid of heretical bishops), but not a good example of a typical perspective.
The chalice is not guarded to protect God from sinful people, but rather to protect sinful people from God. You do realise (or perhaps you don't), that only those Orthodox who have properly prepared themselves are allowed to receive Holy Communion in the Orthodox Church.
the point was that he was not defrocked. and you could also say Rowan Williams, Gene Robinson, Schori or any of the many Anglican clergy who espouse anti-Christian teaching, and yet remain in the Anglican Church. it's not just the fringe and irrelevant weirdos anymore
the point was that he was not defrocked. and you could also say Rowan Williams, Gene Robinson, Schori or any of the many Anglican clergy who espouse anti-Christian teaching, and yet remain in the Anglican Church. it's not just the fringe and irrelevant weirdos anymore
I agree completely. The fact that a wild maniac with heretical insane beliefs was allowed to continue in that huge capacity with so much power, it's nuts. And I rarely disagree with Meghan (MKJ), but I have to say that MANY liberal Episcopalians across the U.S. adore the man and still espouse his tripe. They don't disavow the guy at all! Presiding Bishop Schiori thinks the man is incredible....
That he was not defrocked is a serious problem. It is worst in the Episcopal Church, and bad among the Canadians. You'll notice that all your names are American clergy. The CofE has somewhat different issues.
The Episcopal Church is the fringe to a large extent. And its probably worst in the leadership. Which is why people keep leaving - they stay until their own diocese or parish is affected, then they leave.
My comment was directed to the idea that Spong is "a necessary voice in the church". Taken alone it could give rather the wrong impression - you could equally say that "many think Spong is an example of why there need to be serious changes in TEC or the way the AC deals with TEC" or something similar to that.
That is, his ideas and leadership are seriously controversial. If you go over to STR and bring him up, someone will inevitably say he isn't actually a Christian at all. Even those who might be less unequivocal tend to be rather lukewarm about it.
Do you think this guy would be close to Orthodox?
Poor old Anglo-Catholics- they really do need our prayers. That became obvious when I read the most recent statement of Forward in Faith. Long gone is the historic and principled call for ”Corporate Solutions”- the talk of “Coming Home”- instead those who remain must find consolation in muddled statements like this. The clear acceptance of a congregational existence on the margins of a protestant church. It is sad because we are speaking of some very decent and able people with much to offer the Lord.
I also mentioned Rowan Williams, who is Welsh, and participated in Druidic ceremonies because of his Welsh heritage. sorry, but just because I am proud of my Welsh heritage (which I am), I am gonna avoid any Druidic anything. and there is something terribly amiss to remain in communion with folks that are so theologically off.
I'm the same way. Personally I wish they would ban the Olympics. A pagan festival that was banned by a Christian emperor and once again revived as a pagan festival. Granted the entire mock pagan reenactment ceremony that opens the games is a prophetic foreshadowing of the incarnation by a virgin maiden in which the holy Light is passed onto to all nations, but lets not ruin it for the elites.
I'm the same way. Personally I wish they would ban the Olympics. A pagan festival that was banned by a Christian emperor and once again revived as a pagan festival. Granted the entire mock pagan reenactment ceremony that opens the games is a prophetic foreshadowing of the incarnation by a virgin maiden in which the holy Light is passed onto to all nations, but lets not ruin it for the elites.
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