Breaking the Sword of Islam

[ahmid]

Many bright minds for Christ here. Wish to minister to Muslims? Try islamicboard.com but only email members and pose questions that make them think; do not post a thread or the moderator will take it off. Also take care to use a secure web connection, have Norton and do not use your name. God bless. I am having some success.

Try the following:

I am curious about Islam. Why does the Qur’an contradict itself? It mentions the need for witnesses in Sura 4:15 but it does not stand on this principle. Where are the testimonies of eyewitnesses that confirm what the Qur'an states? What we have is a false god who writes a story, with no one to back it up. G*d expects you and me to believe in the one who has two to three witnesses. This is the rule of witnesses. Hundreds witnessed the miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and wrote their testimonies, (we have these testimonies in writing).

Today in the Middle East, throughout Egypt, Libya and Morocco, hundreds of Muslims are turning to Christianity and forsaking the Qur’an. Why? How? Not by evangelists; not by word of mouth; not by trickery; not by bribery; not by intellect; but by the power of G*d through Jesus Christ. Jesus is revealing Himself to them by way of dreams and visions! (Joel 2:28, Tanach)

Will the Lord reveal Himself to you? I would, Lord; reveal Yourself and turn the reader to you. And to this end, in Jesus Christ’s name, I bind all evil from hindering.

Ahmid

 

[dnihila]

My question is:
Why do you want to build something by breaking another?
Is that something clever to do? Wasting the time by breaking and saving no time for building??????
I feel that if any want to build something he/she should have new tools and a new map instead of breaking old ones and use them in the new building.
Broken parts are not trustworthy in making strong constructions.
The Three Holy Religions can't be seperate apart, they are all Holy and respect is what is needed.
If you can't accept this fact, others might do.
Any trial can't be accepted without the judge, the outlaw and the claimer. You can't deny any of the three because in court that is a must for Justice to be made.

Why to use minus - while we can add+ and why to multiplicate × if we can ÷ "share".
You can get rid of sickness, insects but not humans. No one has the right to deny any human on the behalf of another. If that human is what the Creator has created then his existence is important.
There is no Big Brain for everyone to follow but there is your own wit to trust.
We are not cattles to be led by a stick to know what is right and what's left.
But we hold this stick in our wit to know what is the best for us and what to avoid.

If in the cashier queues, you respect the rules and taking someone's place by stepping forward is considered impolite then what about denying a whole community of humanbeings called Muslims by saying that their existance is extra and there is no need for them to stand anywhere or to live at all.
Whether Muslims stand in the front, in the middle or at the back this means that they existed and they just need to live a peaceful life not only by their own but with others.
We are just trying to save the Best for Last!

 

[ProScribe]

Don't break or destroy it. Keep it on display in the museum.

 

[Futuwwa]

Try the following:

I am curious about Islam. Why does the Qur’an contradict itself? It mentions the need for witnesses in Sura 4:15 but it does not stand on this principle. Where are the testimonies of eyewitnesses that confirm what the Qur'an states? What we have is a false god who writes a story, with no one to back it up. G*d expects you and me to believe in the one who has two to three witnesses. This is the rule of witnesses. Hundreds witnessed the miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and wrote their testimonies, (we have these testimonies in writing).

4:15 talks about a requirement of witnesses for judicial purposes, your argument is an extrapolation to a fundamentally different situation.
There are not hundreds of witnesses to the events you mention. There are a few, scant, contradictory texts that claim the existence of hundreds of witnesses, an existence that never has and never can be independently verified.

You fail

 

[ahmid]

Quote: "Why do you want to build something by breaking another?" ... "I feel that if any want to build something he/she should have new tools and a new map instead of breaking old ones..."

"Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away." (Mark 13:31) Everything as prophesied in the Bible will occur in its due time. The Tanach and New Testament were inspired by G*d and useful to the believer. In addition; G*d is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; G*d does not change. Judge for yourself; should I listen to you or to G*d.

Quote: "The Three Holy Religions can't be seperate apart, they are all Holy and respect is what is needed."

G*d forbid that I should believe in three religions that contradict each other!! The Lord rebuke you satan... and in Jesus Christ's name, the evil shall be taken away. Sorcery, numerology, astrology, new age religion (respect for all religions) and the like shall have no part in my family.
The Faithful in Christ speak of life eternal. Should we not share this wisdom with our neighbors? Is this the reason G*d commands us to love our neighbors?

Quote: "If that human is what the Creator has created then his existence is important. There is no Big Brain for everyone to follow but there is your own wit to trust."

Evil has always been among us; only Islam is the perfect lie.

"not by works but by faith" --- People do not gain eternal life through good works but by faith in Jesus Christ. This faith in turn is a light unto others. Good works are as a result of our faith. For the light of this world cannot be hid... but the darkness does not understand it.

"Not my will, but thy will be done." G*d's love compels me to share with others. Woe is me if I remain silent.

Quote: "Whether Muslims stand in the front, in the middle or at the back this means that they existed and they just need to live a peaceful life not only by their own but with others."

My struggle is not with Muslim people but with "principalities, powers and rulers in high places" that brought Islam. These are fallen angels (including but not limited to satan) or other beasts. "For G*d did not spare these angels when they sinned but sent them to tartarus..." Muslims cherish their Qur'an because it describes the stars and the heavens... but this is common knowledge among angels; their abode is/was the heavens. The Qur'an was written by one or more of these powers in high places, but not by G*d. Keep in mind that the crucifixion of Christ has set all things aright once again.

G*d blesses the reader that is in Jesus.

Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. --- Ahmid Truth

 

[Luzeiro]

4:15 talks about a requirement of witnesses for judicial purposes, your argument is an extrapolation to a fundamentally different situation.
There are not hundreds of witnesses to the events you mention. There are a few, scant, contradictory texts that claim the existence of hundreds of witnesses, an existence that never has and never can be independently verified.

You fail

Much more were the witnesses to the insanity of a man who had the kind of epilepsy necessary to imagine an angel in a cave told him stories. That's not just failure, that is lunacy.

 

[ahmid]

4:15 talks about a requirement of witnesses for judicial purposes, your argument is an extrapolation to a fundamentally different situation.
There are not hundreds of witnesses to the events you mention. There are a few, scant, contradictory texts that claim the existence of hundreds of witnesses, an existence that never has and never can be independently verified.

You fail

The need for witnesses is a basic requirement necessary for judicial and testimonial circumstances. The test of two to three witnesses, can be found in Deuteronomy 19:15 and 17:6, Mathew 18:16, John 8:13. Jesus validates His ministry/testimony by giving the Father's testimony as a supportive witness. This is Jesus speaking in John 8:13-18:

13 So the Pharisees said to Him, "You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not true." 14 Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 "You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. 16 "But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me. 17 "Even in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true. 18 "I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me."

Here Jesus refers to the testimony of His Father (G*d) found in Mark 1:10-11:

10 Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

In addition, John the Baptist was sent as a witness, John 1:33-34:

33 "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, `He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.' 34 "I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God."

Here we see three witnesses. There were many more but as you can see, I have shown you "two to three" as required. This suffices for this response.

Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. --- Ahmid Truth

 

[Luzeiro]

Many bright minds for Christ here. Wish to minister to Muslims? Try islamicboard.com but only email members and pose questions that make them think; do not post a thread or the moderator will take it off. Also take care to use a secure web connection, have Norton and do not use your name. God bless. I am having some success.

Try the following:

I am curious about Islam. Why does the Qur’an contradict itself? It mentions the need for witnesses in Sura 4:15 but it does not stand on this principle. Where are the testimonies of eyewitnesses that confirm what the Qur'an states? What we have is a false god who writes a story, with no one to back it up. G*d expects you and me to believe in the one who has two to three witnesses. This is the rule of witnesses. Hundreds witnessed the miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and wrote their testimonies, (we have these testimonies in writing).

Today in the Middle East, throughout Egypt, Libya and Morocco, hundreds of Muslims are turning to Christianity and forsaking the Qur’an. Why? How? Not by evangelists; not by word of mouth; not by trickery; not by bribery; not by intellect; but by the power of G*d through Jesus Christ. Jesus is revealing Himself to them by way of dreams and visions! (Joel 2:28, Tanach)

Will the Lord reveal Himself to you? I would, Lord; reveal Yourself and turn the reader to you. And to this end, in Jesus Christ’s name, I bind all evil from hindering.

Ahmid

Well-said! Amen!

 

[Futuwwa]

The need for witnesses is a basic requirement necessary for judicial and testimonial circumstances. The test of two to three witnesses, can be found in Deuteronomy 19:15 and 17:6, Mathew 18:16, John 8:13. Jesus validates His ministry/testimony by giving the Father's testimony as a supportive witness. This is Jesus speaking in John 8:13-18

And how is a Biblical standard on witnessing relevant for evaluating the truth of Islam?

For the record, even if we accept that there are a hundred witnesses to Jesus' miracles (which there isn't, just a few texts claiming the existence of hundreds of witnesses), there are still more people than that in the world who sincerely claim to have undergone UFO abduction. Do you, by any chance, consider the existence of UFOs to be more likely than the truth of the Bible?

 

[Futuwwa]

Much more were the witnesses to the insanity of a man who had the kind of epilepsy necessary to imagine an angel in a cave told him stories. That's not just failure, that is lunacy.

A "lunacy" that nevertheless manages to be a lot more consistent and free of philosophical problems than your doctrine. A million witnesses do not make 1 = 2, or "A" and "not A" true simultaneously.

 

[Luzeiro]

A "lunacy" that nevertheless manages to be a lot more consistent and free of philosophical problems than your doctrine. A million witnesses do not make 1 = 2, or "A" and "not A" true simultaneously.

A lunacy, nevertheless, is correct.

 

[ahmid]

And how is a Biblical standard on witnessing relevant for evaluating the truth of Islam?

For the record, even if we accept that there are a hundred witnesses to Jesus' miracles (which there isn't, just a few texts claiming the existence of hundreds of witnesses), there are still more people than that in the world who sincerely claim to have undergone UFO abduction. Do you, by any chance, consider the existence of UFOs to be more likely than the truth of the Bible?

The issue of witnesses and testimonies is an important one. I already presented three witnesses that testified to the testimony of Jesus; but there were hundreds. Included are the twelve disciples who died horrible deaths never recanting their testimonies. Over five hundred witnessed the ascension of Jesus to the heavens forty days after the resurrection. This is all attested to by their own written testimonies and thousands of documents written by the early church fathers (those who personally knew the disciples).

How does this compare to Islam? The Qur'an had one author, period; everyone knows this -- this is the grandeur of the Qur'an - that it was penned by its author, the Muslim allah. Muhammad received the Qur'an, piecemeal, but as a completed book. He did not witness any of the historical events as written in the Qur'an. Do you see the fallacy? The Qur'an's contents is Not valid.

The same could be said of me writing a book that describes New York city with no twin towers in its history. Would you believe me? If I wrote that New York city never had twin towers, would you believe me? Of course not... we all witnessed the twin towers collapse and we testify to it. The same goes for the disciples who witnessed the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus and testified to it in writing and in deeds. But 520 years later, the Qur'an came along saying it never happened. But the worse of it is that the Qur'an has no witnesses that testify to its contents! The true G*d made sure that He followed His own rule! Believe in the one who has two to three witnesses! Believe in Jesus.

Futuwwa -- when a gentleman knows he has been beaten, he bows out or follows the winner. Any further discussions with you is mute.

Salvation does not come by the testing of wits; but it comes by faith in Jesus Christ. How can you believe without faith; to you it is just foolishness. Do not worry, I am praying that you find Jesus Christ and forsake Islam. That you find love and peace that only comes through Jesus. If you proclaim with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe this in your heart, you will find life. Outside of this there is only G*d's judgment. By the power of Jesus Christ's name, I bind all evil that hinders this seed.

Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. --- Ahmid Truth


p.s. - In answer to ufo's, many have rightly made the connection between fallen angels and extraterrestrials as one and the same. Fallen angels (demons) flee from the name of Jesus Christ. Astrologers and Muslims gaze at the heavens with telescopes searching for beings; but G*d probably laughs at them because these people have G*d's Bible readily available to them. Want to find your creator? Read the Bible.

 

[ahmid]

Well-said! Amen!

Thank you. I am expanding my ministry to muslims in europe and the middle east. Do you by chance know of any muslim sites in either place?

Either way, G*d will continue to prosper you if you remain in Christ which I feel you will - no problem there.


Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. --- Ahmid Truth

 

[codya517]

Present the message, live the message. Can't force anyone to understand.

No one can argue me out of Jesus and I can't argue anyone in to Him either.

 

[CaDan]

Break the Sword of Islam . . .

With Internet Trolling!

Somehow I don't think that's a great idea, but if you wanna go for it, I suppose you can try. Since I don't see it leading to either conversions or lulz, I'll take a pass myself.

 

[Dardan]

thats sick and perverted what you try here! I´m proud muslim and i don´t insult your faith and i exspect that you respect mine too.

 

[Islam_mulia]

The issue of witnesses and testimonies is an important one. I already presented three witnesses that testified to the testimony of Jesus;

This does not prove that Christianity is right.

Take the Book of Mormon, for example.
Scholars are not sure who actually wrote the gospels but we have three witnesses, Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris and David Whitmer, plus other eight witnesses, who signed affivadits that they saw an angel gave the golden plates where Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. Based on your basis of witnesses, do you not think that the Mormons have a stronger case?

Included are the twelve disciples who died horrible deaths never recanting

Same can be said of Hindu, Buddhist, Mormons and Muslims who died for their faith. It does not prove their religion is right and others are wrong. Btw, I think only the death of James was mentioned in the NT. Others are from 'tradition' and how they die can hardly be verified.

Over five hundred witnessed the ascension of Jesus to the heavens forty days after the resurrection.

What is the use of mentioning 500 witnesses if there are no written testimonies from them?

This is all attested to by their own written testimonies and thousands of documents written by the early church fathers (those who personally knew the disciples).

What written testimonies? I would expect maybe Mary to write her testimony of what happened at the empty tomb but we do not have that.

How does this compare to Islam? The Qur'an had one author, period; everyone knows this -- this is the grandeur of the Qur'an - that it was penned by its author, the Muslim allah. Muhammad received the Qur'an, piecemeal, but as a completed book. He did not witness any of the historical events as written in the Qur'an. Do you see the fallacy? The Qur'an's contents is Not valid.

The author of the Quran is God. Period.

With people who do not trust the Quran, God posed a challenge to these people:

"Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it not been from other than God, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."
(Qur'an, Al-Nisa 4:82)​

Unlike other religious scriptures that the adherents would take for granted that they were from god, the Quran is maybe the only religious book that has God challenging the readers to prove the Book wrong.

The content of the book is therefore a better indication of inerrancy than a set of human witnesses and their testimonies.

The same could be said of me writing a book that describes New York city with no twin towers in its history. Would you believe me? If I wrote that New York city never had twin towers, would you believe me? Of course not... we all witnessed the twin towers collapse and we testify to it.

Notice that you bring about a question to your readers. You challenged them to prove you wrong. We do not have that in the bible, do you? You believe the bible is from god because you believe it came from the testimonies of disciples whom you believed were killed for their faith. You believe more than you confirm that it was true.

The same goes for the disciples who witnessed the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus and testified to it in writing and in deeds.

Again, it can be argued that the disciples did not write their testimonies but others claim they wrote as they heard from the disciples. Of course you have to beleive the words of the secondary writers, not the disciples.

The event relating to the crucifixon is fill of inconsistencies and errors that if you were to place them as evidence in court, you'll probably would lose the case. If you wish to discuss this, pls open a new thread.

But 520 years later, the Qur'an came along saying it never happened. But the worse of it is that the Qur'an has no witnesses that testify to its contents!

The Quran says those who believe in the crucifixion is believing in a conjecture.

conjecture

1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.

There is no historical proof that Jesus was crucified.

 

[Jadis40]

So, in answer to the statement that there is no historical proof that Jesus was crucified, we have Jesus' own words testifying to that very fact.

When Jesus was presented at the temple, we have this prophecy by Simeon, regarding the crucifixion:

Luke 3:34-35
And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Jesus Himself spoke many times of his upcoming crucifixion.

Matthew 17:22-23
And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.

Matthew 26:1-2
And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

There seems to be an intellectual disconnect when you claim to have read Jesus' own words as recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John where Jesus speaks of his upcoming death and then turn around and say it never happened, based on the words written in a book 600+ years later, by someone who wasn't even alive at the time that Jesus was here fulfilling His earthly ministry?

You claim that the Quran came from God. Yet why would God contradict Himself by giving a message to someone 600+ years later that contradicts all the prophecies testified to in the Old Testament, including the prophecy of the coming Savior who was to suffer and die at the hands of sinful men? So who am I going to believe? The choice is simple, I will believe the words spoken by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who was crucified and was buried, and rose again on the third day.

 

[Islam_mulia]

So, in answer to the statement that there is no historical proof that Jesus was crucified, we have Jesus' own words testifying to that very fact.

Let me guess. You are saying these 'prophecies' are actually historical evidence? Beat that, Cambridge scholars!

 

[Luzeiro]

Thank you. I am expanding my ministry to muslims in europe and the middle east. Do you by chance know of any muslim sites in either place?

Either way, G*d will continue to prosper you if you remain in Christ which I feel you will - no problem there.


Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. --- Ahmid Truth

No, I know of no specific sites in Europe, etc. But I do know Europe has its hands full of them, belly, too.

We already know who reigns supreme; we also know where Armageddon is; God bless you, too.