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Breaking the chains (of sin and darkness)...?

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If a person can think like that after they accepted Christ as the Saviour didn't get saved then. Your wants and desires change when you're born again.

I agree that your wants and desires change when a person is born again. They will seek to not justify sin in any way. They will read the many Scriptures that talk about Sinless Perfectionism and believe them and ask the Lord for His help to overcome their sin by His Word.

A believer must also be transformed by the renewing of their own mind.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (Romans 12:2).

Anyways, the problem is in the belief of OSAS itself. A person cannot truly desire to do good if their belief (OSAS) makes them to think they can sin and still be saved on some level.


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For there are believers who received the seed of the Word with joy into their hearts, but they fell away due to persecution or to the riches of this life, etc. (See the Parable of the Sower).


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What's the best way to combat/approach/deal with/come against and overcome "sin" and darkness? (dark, evil, wicked, or wrong thoughts or thinking) Wrong behaviors/attitudes/perceptions/outlooks...

What's the best way to deal with these things, and how does a person truly change (them)...? Is it by our effort and work or something "we" do, or God? Or, a combination of both? And, how does that work...?

I posted this to someone who was having lustful thoughts, and how we need to just stop wrong thinking before it becomes sin (before it becomes wrong behavior/attitudes/outlooks, or actions) (before it becomes sin)...

I posted this, but it can apply to any kind of wrong thoughts or behavior/actions/attitudes...



I still struggle sometimes, but a lot less than I use to, as I am trying to stay chaste and pure sexually as well... Short and simple...? Just "don't think about it at all" cast those thoughts down and away...

Helps not to be idle a lot, find hobbies for your spare time, keep busy, do other things (like hobbies or activities) that you enjoy in your spare time... Don't let or be around outside influences that would spurn sexual thoughts, like people who like to talk about it, or especially your media that you watch or are exposed to... Eliminate it from your world...

Think back to when you were a child and didn't have any sexual thoughts, if that helps, and try to remember and go back to that again, but as a child of God now...

It won't be easy, especially at the start... Cause most adults are addicted in the brain to thinking sexual thoughts, and you have to break that, and kill off those connections in the brain, which can only be done through complete abstinence from any and all sexual thoughts... And, you may even be bombarded with more sexual thoughts than normal at first, when you first try to kill off those connections in the brain, cause starving them to death, (which is what must be done), anyways starving certain kinds of thoughts to death like if you were to go on a diet and fast from bad foods, that taste good...

Anyhow, like that, you may have more and be more strongly tempted to have even more and stronger thoughts about say, eating a gallon of ice cream, anyways, that temptation will be strong and come on stronger at say, the first week or two of the diet, but only at the beginning, it does get easier, in time, if you stay committed to abstaining, and in time, you won't have those strong cravings for ice cream, hardly at all anymore... It is the same with sexual stuff/thoughts...

You have to starve it to death, and not let it/them in from the outside, into your world... You have to kill that neural connection in the brain...

Pray about it also, but pray not to think about it at all, or for the strength to abstain and not let it be or come into your world anymore...

This is helping me with it... Hope it can help you as well...



The only problem I see with it, is that, it is a lot of "our own" doing...?

How much should be us, and how much God...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

If you don't believe the Scriptures about:

1. Fearing the Lord
(As a part of our beginning walk with Him) which is the Non-OSAS (Conditional Salvation Biblical View); Meaning, you have to believe verses plainly in what they say, like 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7, 1 John 2:4, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, 1 John 3:15, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:8, John 3:20, John 8:34, Proverbs 28:13, Ecclesiastes 12:13, Acts 8:22, James 2:17, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 11:22, etc.

2. Overcoming Sin
(Which is by God's Power to Give Him The Glory)​

Then you can forget about overcoming sin in this life (if you don't believe these two points), my friend.

Anyways, if you are serious in overcoming sin and you are willing to reject a doctrine that makes room for you to do evil while thinking you are saved, I believe there are different methods to help you to overcome your sin by God's Word and with the help of Jesus.
  1. Remove yourself from sinful environments (if possible) and or get rid of things that cause you to sin. In Genesis: Joseph had literally ran away from the temptation of sexual sin.

  2. Pray to God so as not to be tempted. It is part of the Lord’s prayer for you to pray so as not to be tempted into sin. God will guide and protect you if you are serious in praying for this. In fact, fasting will help you with this, as well.

  3. Obey God’s righteous ways. The more you love God and love others and obey His Word and stay in His Word and pray, the more you will not even have a chance to sin or do the wrong thing. But the more you walk in God's Word by the Spirit you will not fulfill the lusts of flesh.

  4. When you are tempted, quote Scripture. When Jesus was tempted by the devil, He quoted Scripture to defeat the devil. So when some specific sin is bothering you, find all the verses you can that are victory verses over that particular sin. A good general verse is, “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” You can say these verses to yourself silently under your breath (with nobody hearing).

  5. Ask for prayer from other God fearing Christians or Godly Christians to help you to overcome certain sins. The Scriptures say, bear ye one another's burdens and thus fulfill the Law of Christ. So seek true fellowship and ask for their help.

  6. Hide God’s Word in your heart. Memorize Scripture. David said he hid God’s Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord.

  7. Confess of your sins. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from allunrighteousness.

I would also encourage you to check out Allan Ballou's videos here:






Alan Ballou's YouTube Page.

Alan Ballou's website is:
How to stop sinning | HowToStopSinning.com

If you are looking for verses on Sinless Perfectionism, here are 50 points in Scripture that may help you (posted here at CF).

A Biblical Defense of Sinless Perfectionism.

Anyways, I hope this helps.
May you please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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Winken

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......... the problem is in the belief of OSAS itself. A person cannot truly desire to do good if their belief (OSAS) makes them to think they can sin and still be saved on some level.


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I don't think that one who thinks like that has been truly born again. The desire, the intent, to do good works is exceptionally at the forefront of those who are truly born again. Yes, over time, the zeal drifts away, yet the pact Jesus makes with each individual is always present. He never leaves, never forsakes.

Those individuals who drift way after confessing Jesus as Savior are destined to enter Heaven minus a multiplicity of significant awards, something like the introverted high school student sitting on the back row in each classroom, never voluntarily speaking up, and when asked a question in tune with the topic simply falters or panics or stutters or freezes up in mentally / emotionally striving to produce a Spiritual answer. They aren't booted out of the classroom.
 
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John Hyperspace

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That would be telling lies to yourself as a counter-thought. Women or men are not ugly.

I would say that is debatable, but even giving the proposition concession; a man who has an evil conscience because of what he perceives to be 'sin' is guilty of breaking all law: James 2:10. Thus by the one sin he is guilty of the other. In other words, through the one sin he is already not only being condemned by his own conscience of the one sin, but of all sin through transgression of the one. Meaning, he is already a liar, a thief, a murderer, a coveter, an adulterer, and every other sin by and through the one.

For the record, I find men to be quite ugly; so would dispute your claim that "men are not ugly". I'm not sure how a woman could ever be attracted to such; but I suppose that is the nature of things.
 
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St_Worm2

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A person cannot truly desire to do good if their belief (OSAS) makes them to think they can sin and still be saved on some level.

Hi Jason, I have no desire to utterly derail this thread by beginning to discuss OSAS, but I would be interested to know if you believe that a Christian loses their salvation whenever he/she sins?

Thanks!

--David
 
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Hi Jason, I have no desire to utterly derail this thread by beginning to discuss OSAS, but I would be interested to know if you believe that a Christian loses their salvation whenever he/she sins?

Thanks!

--David

It depends on the sin. Not all sin is the same. There are certain sins that are even unforgivable like:

(a) Speaking bad words against the Holy Spirit,

(b) Taking the mark of the beast, and

(c) Committing suicide (while not having any chance in coming back from the dead).​

Anyways, John says there are sins unto death and sins not unto death (1 John 5:16-18).

Sins unto death are any sins that lead to the Second Death (a.k.a. the Lake of Fire). These types of sins would be unrepentant sins like: murder, hate, lying, theft, adultery, idolatry, etc. (Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8).

Sins not unto death are confessed sins or sins that do not lead to the Second Death. These sins would be like: Not being baptized in this life (1 Peter 3:21), boasting in each other or causing divisions (1 Corinthians 3:1-15), and hidden or secret faults (Psalms 19:12).

But can a person who walks with God or can a believer sin and immediately die spiritually? Yes. Adam sinned and immediately he died on a spiritual level. Ananias and Sapphira (who were believers) sinned and were immediately condemned to hell. Simon sinned by trying to pay for the power of the Holy Spirit and Peter told him to repent to God so that the Lord might forgive him of such a sin.

1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Logic dictates that if one is not confessing their sin, then they are not forgiven of their sin according to 1 John 1:9. For it says we have to confess our sin in order to be forgiven.

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aiki

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What's the best way to combat/approach/deal with/come against and overcome "sin" and darkness? (dark, evil, wicked, or wrong thoughts or thinking) Wrong behaviors/attitudes/perceptions/outlooks...

What's the best way to deal with these things, and how does a person truly change (them)...? Is it by our effort and work or something "we" do, or God? Or, a combination of both? And, how does that work...?

Blind post.

The best way to deal with sin is God's way. Where is God's way laid out for us to see? In His word. What does His word say to us about how to deal with sin? Well, as I've read it and acted in accord with it in the area of temptation, the following has been made apparent:

There are three things that work together to bring a Christian free of the power of sin: the Word of Truth, the Power of God, the Armor of Righteousness.

1.) The Word of Truth.

King David wrote,

Psalms 119:11
11 Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You!


Here the Psalmist links "hiding" the word of God in the heart with the ability to resist sin. The word "hidden" carries the idea of storing up, or even hoarding. So, David stored up the word in his heart and thus kept himself from sin. Why is this "hiding the word in the heart" effective against the tempting and deceiving power of sin?

1.) God's word has unique power. (Psa. 1; Isa. 55:11; Jer. 23:29; Ro. 1:16)

2.) God's word cleanses the mind. (Jn. 15:3; 17:17; Eph. 5:26)

3.) God's word reveals the lies at the heart of every sin. (Jn. 17:17; 2Cor. 4:2; 1 Thess. 2:13)

4.) God's word transforms our thinking and behaviour. (Eph. 4:20-25; Ro. 12:1; Col. 3:9, 10)

When a believer is careful to be meditating upon (Ps. 1; Phil. 4:8), memorizing (Ps. 119:11; Pr. 3:3) and living in harmony (Ps. 86:11; Ja. 1:23) with Scripture, sin finds little ground in which to sow its deceitful temptations.

2.) The Power of God.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.


Jude 1:24-25
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.


It does the believer no good simply to study and memorize Scripture apart from the supernatural flow of God's enabling and transforming power. Sin cannot be conquered without the power of God's Spirit (Ro. 8:13). That power is unleashed in a believer's life by the believer's moment-by-moment surrender to the Spirit's will and way. (Ro. 12:1; 6:13; Ja. 4:6-10; 1 Pe. 5:6)

3.) The Armor of Righteousness.

Isaiah 59:1-2
1 Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, That it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, That it cannot hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear.


1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


"Keep short accounts with God." Don't let unconfessed sin pile up in your life. Nothing hinders the believer's walk with God more than unconfessed sin left to foul and fester. Paul described the believer as being in a race (1 Cor. 9:24-27). What runner in a race having fallen remains down bemoaning their fall? Not one who desires to win the race! We are to "lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily besets us" (He. 12:1) and run that we might finish the race! That means when we sin, we confess it, get up, and get going! No sitting around feeling guilty and beating up on ourselves.

Philippians 3:12-14
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.


As a believer is careful to confess every hindering sin that crops up, and remains submitted to the Holy Spirit, and saturates their mind in the truth and light of God's word, sin increasingly becomes the exception rather than the rule. This is the normal Christian life, not the endless daily cycle of sin-confession-sin that characterizes the lives of many believers.

Selah.
 
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But can a believer abide in unrepentant serious sin and still be saved? I believe one's efforts are hindered in overcoming sin if they hold to a gospel that teaches that sin cannot separate a believer from God. For it takes away the real consequences of serious sin and gives the believer a false sense of security treating sin as being no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten.

For is not overcoming sin for the OSAS proponent wishful thinking? Do not OSAS proponents believe 1 John 1:8 teaches the believer is always in sin?


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Winken

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But can a believer abide in unrepentant serious sin and still be saved? I believe one's efforts are hindered in overcoming sin if they hold to a gospel that teaches that sin cannot separate a believer from God. For it takes away the real consequences of serious sin and gives the believer a false sense of security treating sin as being no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten.

For is not overcoming sin for the OSAS proponent wishful thinking? Do not OSAS proponents believe 1 John 1:8 teaches the believer is always in sin?


...
Come on, Jason! You write so well, then you insert the "fluffy kitten" comment, which detracts from your presentation.

The dividing line between your position and mine is clearly laid out in scripture. As I have said many, many times, we cannot doubt what is written; there are no conflicts in scripture.

Therefore, let us process what is written:
But can a believer abide in unrepentant serious sin and still be saved?

Believer vs. unrepentant serious sin? All sin is serious. One who has been born again sadly drifts away; fellowship is now lacking. That is when repentance kicks in. One is not "lost," one is drifting into sin, which is serious. One's living, and that of others, is severely impacted. Thank God the Holy Spirit didn't leave. He is still hanging around. The drifter comes under that awareness and the need to repent, in order to rejoin the Holy Conversation. A merciful God has provided 1 John 1:9. Fellowship is instantly restored; eternal security was never in doubt.

I believe one's efforts are hindered in overcoming sin if they hold to a gospel that teaches that sin cannot separate a believer from God. For it takes away the real consequences of serious sin and gives the believer a false sense of security treating sin as being no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten.
My efforts? The Holy Spirit is the Overcomer! Jesus said, I will NEVER leave you or forsake you! The Believer cannot be separated from the Savior! The consequences of remaining in the state of "drift" are devastating to the Believer and to loved ones. Repentance (1 John 1:9) is called for. Without that repentance, the Believer sustains the loss of a multitude of eternal blessings, but never eternal salvation.

For is not overcoming sin for the OSAS proponent wishful thinking? Do not OSAS proponents believe 1 John 1:8 teaches the believer is always in sin?

The Holy Spirit is the overcomer. One repents (turns to) Him in prayer and thanksgiving for 1 John 1:9.

What does 1 John 1:8 teach, in the face of undeniable, Gospel Truth?
Read it in context, 1 John 1:4-10. For a Christian to say that we have no sin, contextually, is True. How? The Cross. Sin and daily sins forgiven. Salvation secure. Drift? 1 John 1:9, fellowship returns.

What a glorious Truth that we were nailed to the Cross with Him! What a glorious Truth that we were then and are now forgiven forever!

Wow!
 
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Bigmike424

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I agree that your wants and desires change when a person is born again. They will seek to not justify sin in any way. They will read the many Scriptures that talk about Sinless Perfectionism and believe them and ask the Lord for His help to overcome their sin by His Word.

A believer must also be transformed by the renewing of their own mind.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (Romans 12:2).

Anyways, the problem is in the belief of OSAS itself. A person cannot truly desire to do good if their belief (OSAS) makes them to think they can sin and still be saved on some level.


...
I think you have an abstract version of eternal security and a counterfeit salvation. No one is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and have the plans like you indicate.
 
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Come on, Jason! You write so well, then you insert the "fluffy kitten" comment, which detracts from your presentation.

The Bible itself uses strong jarring word picture language that some may consider as either rated "R" or rated "X" to get a point accross. So if you are going to condemn me for jarring word picture language, you would also have to condemn your own Bible, too (Because it does the same thing).

Winken said:
The dividing line between your position and mine is clearly laid out in scripture. As I have said many, many times, we cannot doubt what is written; there are no conflicts in scripture.

Therefore, let us process what is written:

Believer vs. unrepentant serious sin? All sin is serious. One who has been born again sadly drifts away; fellowship is now lacking. That is when repentance kicks in. One is not "lost," one is drifting into sin, which is serious. One's living, and that of others, is severely impacted. Thank God the Holy Spirit didn't leave. He is still hanging around. The drifter comes under that awareness and the need to repent, in order to rejoin the Holy Conversation. A merciful God has provided 1 John 1:9. Fellowship is instantly restored; eternal security was never in doubt.

It is written,

“...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
(Matthew 5:22).

28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

“22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

“26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
(Matthew 7:26-27).

“15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

"he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13).

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, ..." (1 John 3:7).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
(James 4:6).

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).​

Not sure how many times the Word of God has to say it before you actually get it. Over and over and over again the warnings are there. But you have to ignore them in order to make your belief work.

Winken said:
My efforts? The Holy Spirit is the Overcomer! Jesus said, I will NEVER leave you or forsake you! The Believer cannot be separated from the Savior! The consequences of remaining in the state of "drift" are devastating to the Believer and to loved ones. Repentance (1 John 1:9) is called for. Without that repentance, the Believer sustains the loss of a multitude of eternal blessings, but never eternal salvation.

The Holy Spirit is the overcomer. One repents (turns to) Him in prayer and thanksgiving for 1 John 1:9.

Please do not take what I said out of context to what I have said many times within the forum. I do not believe that the saint does the good work ultimately. I believe the saint cooperates with God in the good work the Lord wants to do within them.

For who ultimately does the "good work" in a believer's life?

Is it God?
Or is it the believer?

Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who ultimately does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

Winken said:
What does 1 John 1:8 teach, in the face of undeniable, Gospel Truth?
Read it in context, 1 John 1:4-10. For a Christian to say that we have no sin, contextually, is True. How? The Cross. Sin and daily sins forgiven. Salvation secure. Drift? 1 John 1:9, fellowship returns.

What a glorious Truth that we were nailed to the Cross with Him! What a glorious Truth that we were then and are now forgiven forever!

Wow!

There is nothing in 1 John 1 that talks about sin causing a break in fellowship with us still being saved. On the contrary, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.

#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.​

Anyways, I hope you check out the verses I provided by way of prayer and not throw them aside just because they may disagree with your belief.

May God bless you.
And please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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I think you have an abstract version of eternal security and a counterfeit salvation. No one is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and have the plans like you indicate.

I can say that you have an abstract version of Hamartiology and not post any Scripture. But what does that prove but to just throw around insults without any substance or proof? Please address the verses I bring up and stop making broad generalizing opinions with no substance.

Thank you.
For Scripture and not insulting opinions is where this battle will be won.
Note: Please see the first set of verses in Post #52. Please take at least a small handful of them and address them.


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Also, again, there are two OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) Proponents here that have expressed a desire to overcome sin and or darkness. This is really rare in my dealings with OSAS Proponents. Most of my dealings with OSAS Proponents have given me the impression that they will always be in some kind of sin within this life (Which is based upon their erroneous interpretation of 1 John 1:8 and Galatians 2:17). Granted, I have ran into 2 other OSAS Proponents before who believe in Sinless Perfectionism, but this is very rare. However, most Eternal Security Proponents try to justify sin in some way. I can say this because I have talked to many OSAS proponents who openly admitted to me that they can sin and still be saved.

In fact, here is one person here on this forum who has confessed to me that the believer can do evil and yet still be in God's good graces. Here is that conversation.

I said to this person,

This means that a person can continue to murder, rape, hate, fornicate, do drugs, and still be saved as long as they believe in Jesus, right? No?​

And they replied,

Yep. Why? Because Christ died for ALL sins. Why do you think Christ died for sins, if sins will keep one out of heaven? How does that make any sense? It doesn't. Just because you're offended by the grace of God doesn't mean His grace is cancelled by your offendedness.​

Source:
A quote from an OSAS proponent from within my post.

In fact, it does not matter if the OSAS proponent teaches Sinless Perfectionism or holy living. Why? Well, the teaching of OSAS all by itself can easily mislead people into thinking they have a license to sin (if it is not properly explained). For when you say to a person their future sin is forgiven them, they can get the wrong idea from you that you can live however you like. That's the problem with OSAS. If I preach just part of the truth, it should not lead people down the wrong path or way of thinking. Something is true regardless of whether I give somebody the whole truth or not. The OSAS Proponents reply to this is that no true believer will think the wrong way into trying to justify sin. But why does the message sound like that, though? It just doesn't add up.


...
 
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I can say that you have an abstract version of Hamartiology and not post any Scripture. But what does that prove but to just throw around insults without any substance or proof? Please address the verses I bring up and stop making broad generalizing opinions with no substance.

Thank you.
For Scripture and not insulting opinions is where this battle will be won.
Note: Please see the first set of verses in Post #52. Please take at least a small handful of them and address them.


...
You must be a very insecure man to always insinuate an insult from a general remark. I am not going to write a novel on here and tell people how wrong they are, that is your obvious position. There are many people that are not saved but claim that they know Jesus. There are those that are backslidden. How about general stories and parables in the Bible. There are many. I didn't insult you and if we are back to this then I don't really care. If you think you can live a perfect and sin free life you're foolish (statement not insult). And if that was possible why did Jesus pay such an incredible price for us?
 
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disciple1

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What's the best way to combat/approach/deal with/come against and overcome "sin" and darkness? (dark, evil, wicked, or wrong thoughts or thinking) Wrong behaviors/attitudes/perceptions/outlooks...

What's the best way to deal with these things, and how does a person truly change (them)...? Is it by our effort and work or something "we" do, or God? Or, a combination of both? And, how does that work...?

I posted this to someone who was having lustful thoughts, and how we need to just stop wrong thinking before it becomes sin (before it becomes wrong behavior/attitudes/outlooks, or actions) (before it becomes sin)...

I posted this, but it can apply to any kind of wrong thoughts or behavior/actions/attitudes...



I still struggle sometimes, but a lot less than I use to, as I am trying to stay chaste and pure sexually as well... Short and simple...? Just "don't think about it at all" cast those thoughts down and away...

Helps not to be idle a lot, find hobbies for your spare time, keep busy, do other things (like hobbies or activities) that you enjoy in your spare time... Don't let or be around outside influences that would spurn sexual thoughts, like people who like to talk about it, or especially your media that you watch or are exposed to... Eliminate it from your world...

Think back to when you were a child and didn't have any sexual thoughts, if that helps, and try to remember and go back to that again, but as a child of God now...

It won't be easy, especially at the start... Cause most adults are addicted in the brain to thinking sexual thoughts, and you have to break that, and kill off those connections in the brain, which can only be done through complete abstinence from any and all sexual thoughts... And, you may even be bombarded with more sexual thoughts than normal at first, when you first try to kill off those connections in the brain, cause starving them to death, (which is what must be done), anyways starving certain kinds of thoughts to death like if you were to go on a diet and fast from bad foods, that taste good...

Anyhow, like that, you may have more and be more strongly tempted to have even more and stronger thoughts about say, eating a gallon of ice cream, anyways, that temptation will be strong and come on stronger at say, the first week or two of the diet, but only at the beginning, it does get easier, in time, if you stay committed to abstaining, and in time, you won't have those strong cravings for ice cream, hardly at all anymore... It is the same with sexual stuff/thoughts...

You have to starve it to death, and not let it/them in from the outside, into your world... You have to kill that neural connection in the brain...

Pray about it also, but pray not to think about it at all, or for the strength to abstain and not let it be or come into your world anymore...

This is helping me with it... Hope it can help you as well...



The only problem I see with it, is that, it is a lot of "our own" doing...?

How much should be us, and how much God...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
Romans chapter 2 verse 29
29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Study the bible.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
 
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OzSpen

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But in OSAS, it is not all that big of a deal if you lie. Lying will just only cause you chastisement here and or make you lose rewards. But you can lie and still go to Heaven, though. However, the Scriptures say that ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). The Scriptures also say that Christ will send forth His angels and gather out of HIS KINGDOM all who offend (sin) and or do iniquity (intense sin or lawlessness) and cast them into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (Matthew 13:41-42). Jesus says, "He that ... receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).


....

Those who promote or allow lying violate Scriptures such as Colossians 3:9 (NIV), 'Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices'.

There are exceptions to this when there is a higher moral requirement as Corrie ten Boom demonstrated by hiding the Jews in her house in Holland. See The Hiding Place.

I haven't met too many Calvinists who live like you have described in their support of OSAS/Perseverance of the Saints.

Oz
 
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I would say that is debatable, but even giving the proposition concession; a man who has an evil conscience because of what he perceives to be 'sin' is guilty of breaking all law: James 2:10. Thus by the one sin he is guilty of the other. In other words, through the one sin he is already not only being condemned by his own conscience of the one sin, but of all sin through transgression of the one. Meaning, he is already a liar, a thief, a murderer, a coveter, an adulterer, and every other sin by and through the one.

For the record, I find men to be quite ugly; so would dispute your claim that "men are not ugly". I'm not sure how a woman could ever be attracted to such; but I suppose that is the nature of things.

I'm not convinced that that is what James is teaching. I'm preaching expositionally through James and here is a grab from that portion of my sermon:

It is the ‘royal law’ (2.8), but there is another dimension to this law in v. 12, ‘the law of liberty’ (ESV, NASB), or ‘the law that gives freedom’ (NIV), ‘the law that sets you free’ (NLT).

We’ll get to the meaning of ‘the law of liberty’ soon. The royal law is ‘the law of love as sovereign over all others (cf. Mt. 22:36-40; Rom. 13:8-9; Gal. 5:14)’. Gal 5:14 states it simply: ‘For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself”’ (NIV).

If this were the law against drink-driving here in Queensland, it would not make sense to say that if we break that one law then we are guilty of breaking all of Qld laws, including stealing, murder, lying in court, etc.

Is that how it happens with Australian law? What makes a Queenslander a criminal? Does breaking one criminal law mean a person breaks the whole of the criminal law? That doesn’t make sense for me as a Queenslander.

Remember that this is a hypothetical example in James 2:10, ‘whoever keeps … and yet stumbles’.

Notice the first two verbs in this verse, ‘For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point….’

‘Keeps’ and ‘stumbles’ are Greek aorist tenses, which means they happened at a point in time, but that person ‘has become’ (perfect tense) ‘guilty of breaking all of it’ (NIV), ‘accountable for all of it’ (ESV). The perfect tense refers to something that has happened but the person continues to experience the result of what that person has done. So, here the person who stumbles at one point of the law continues to be guilty or accountable for all points of the law. The continuing, abiding result is that that person continues to be guilty.

Oz
 
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Neogaia777

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Also, again, there are two OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) Proponents here that have expressed a desire to overcome sin and or darkness. This is really rare in my dealings with OSAS Proponents. Most of my dealings with OSAS Proponents have given me the impression that they will always be in some kind of sin within this life (Which is based upon their erroneous interpretation of 1 John 1:8 and Galatians 2:17). Granted, I have ran into 2 other OSAS Proponents before who believe in Sinless Perfectionism, but this is very rare. However, most Eternal Security Proponents try to justify sin in some way. I can say this because I have talked to many OSAS proponents who openly admitted to me that they can sin and still be saved.

In fact, here is one person here on this forum who has confessed to me that the believer can do evil and yet still be in God's good graces. Here is that conversation.

I said to this person,

This means that a person can continue to murder, rape, hate, fornicate, do drugs, and still be saved as long as they believe in Jesus, right? No?​

And they replied,

Yep. Why? Because Christ died for ALL sins. Why do you think Christ died for sins, if sins will keep one out of heaven? How does that make any sense? It doesn't. Just because you're offended by the grace of God doesn't mean His grace is cancelled by your offendedness.​

Source:
A quote from an OSAS proponent from within my post.

In fact, it does not matter if the OSAS proponent teaches Sinless Perfectionism or holy living. Why? Well, the teaching of OSAS all by itself can easily mislead people into thinking they have a license to sin (if it is not properly explained). For when you say to a person their future sin is forgiven them, they can get the wrong idea from you that you can live however you like. That's the problem with OSAS. If I preach just part of the truth, it should not lead people down the wrong path or way of thinking. Something is true regardless of whether I give somebody the whole truth or not. The OSAS Proponents reply to this is that no true believer will think the wrong way into trying to justify sin. But why does the message sound like that, though? It just doesn't add up.


...
What do you believe about the "Grace of God"...?

God Bless!
 
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You must be a very insecure man to always insinuate an insult from a general remark.

Well, It has nothing to do with insecurity, but it has to do with morality or what is good and right.

Do you think believers will be insulting each other in Heaven?
Or do you think they will be getting along with each other and loving each other?
Jesus said we can be held accountable at the Judgment for even idle words that we speak (Matthew 12:36).

You said, I quote,
"I think you have an abstract version of Eternal Security and a counterfeit salvation. No one is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and have the plans like you indicate."

You said I have an abstract understanding of Eternal Security.
This is an insult.
You said I have a counterfeit salvation.
This is an insult.
You said nobody is truly saved if they would think the thoughts and or have the plans that I indicate.
This is also an insult.

They are insults because I have given you and everyone else Scripture to support what I had said. You have not set out to explain the verses I brought forth, but you just provide criticism with no support in Scripture that what you are saying is true. Please provide Scripture to support your accusations. Otherwise they come off as just baseless insults that seeks to be hurtful and not truthful.

BigMike said:
I am not going to write a novel on here and tell people how wrong they are, that is your obvious position.

Well, I am not writing a novel, dear sir. I am posting lots of Scripture. There is a difference. I believe you cannot give an answer to these many verses because you honestly do not know what they say. If you did have an idea of what they said, you would have given a reply by now. If you are able to reply to the many verses I have provided (in intelligent manner using the context and or cross references), I will of course apologize.

BigMike said:
There are many people that are not saved but claim that they know Jesus.

This is a good start to understanding that sin does in fact separate a believer from God. Anyways, what Scripture verses lead you to this type of thinking that there are people who say they know Jesus but are not saved?

BigMike said:
There are those that are backslidden.

When a believer backslides into sin, do they need to repent so as to be saved again? Or are these believers saved even while they are in a sinful backslidden state?

BigMike said:
How about general stories and parables in the Bible. There are many.

What about the many stories and parables in the Bible? Do you think they support Eternal Security? If so, then which ones? On the contrary, I would say that a good majority of the stories and parables in the Bible support Conditional Salvation and not Eternal Security. We can talk about them if you like; Or you can continue to insult me.

BigMike said:
I didn't insult you

You have a funny idea about an insult is not.
I am wondering, how would you define an insult?
How does the Dictionary define an insult?

BigMike said:
...and if we are back to this then I don't really care.

Back to what? What don't you really care about?

BigMike said:
If you think you can live a perfect and sin free life you're foolish (statement not insult).

You can either be in ignorance or you can look at the many verses here on Sinless Perfectionism. Just click on the spoiler button to check them out.

List of Verses For Sinless Perfectionism (a.k.a. Entire Sanctification) in Scripture:
  1. The 144,000 are found without fault before the throne of God. For John says, “And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.” (Revelation 14:3-5).

  2. Enoch was translated and did not see death because he walked with the LORD and pleased GOD. For the author of Hebrews says, “By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.” (Hebrews 11:5); And Moses had written in the Torah, “And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” (Genesis 5:24).

  3. Jesus says, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48).

  4. GOD says, “Be ye holy as I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16 cf. Leviticus 11:45).

  5. Jesus said to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man that Jesus healed that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him. For Jesus said, “sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).

  6. Jesus says, “If you want to be perfect sell your possessions and give them to the poor” (Matthew 19:21).

  7. We are told in Scripture that he [i.e. anyone] that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. For Peter says, “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;” (1 Peter 4:1).

  8. Paul says, “And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24).

  9. James says, “If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2).

  10. Paul says, “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13).

  11. David says, “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Psalms 119:11).

  12. Paul says, “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him” (Romans 6:6-8).

  13. Paul says, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12). John says, “sin not.” (1 John 2:1).

  14. Paul says, “For sin shall not have dominion over you.” (Romans 6:14).

  15. Paul says, “Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.” (Romans NLT). Jesus says, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. (John 8:34). John says he that sins is of the devil (1 John 1:8).

  16. Paul says, “You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.” (Romans 6:18 NIV).

  17. Paul says, “For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.” (Romans 6:20 BLB). Paul also says, “But now that you have been freed from sin and have become God's slaves, the benefit you reap is sanctification, and the result is eternal life.” (Romans 6:22 ISV).

  18. Peter says, “there are false prophets... who cannot cease from sin.” (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). This is similar to those who are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of GOD (1 Timothy 3:1-9). For he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him (1 John 2:4).

  19. Jesus says, “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” (Matthew 26:41). What is the point of watching and praying so as not to be led into temptation if you are going to inevitably sin again?

  20. Paul says “Be ye angry, and sin not:” (Ephesians 4:26).

  21. John says, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9-10)

  22. John says,“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” (1 John 5:4). John also says, “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (1 John 2:16). For John says, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15).

  23. Paul says, “Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.” (1 Corinthians 15:34).

  24. The author of Hebrews says, “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen” (Hebrews 13:20-21).

  25. John says, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness” (1 John 5:18-19).

  26. Sinless Perfectionism is the goal for a believer’s life. For Paul says, “Not that I have already obtained it [this goal of being Christlike] or have already been made perfect, but I actively press on so that I may take hold of that [perfection] for which Christ Jesus took hold of me and made me His own.” (Philippians 3:12 AMP).

  27. Jesus says, “The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40).

  28. Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).

  29. Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

  30. James says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” (James 1:4). James also says, ““Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (James 2:22).

  31. Jesus says, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).

  32. Paul says, “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

  33. Paul says, “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,” (Ephesians 4:1).

  34. Paul says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4). Paul also says, “For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

  35. Zacharias says, “That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.” (Luke 1:74-75).

  36. Paul says, “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;” (Colossians 1:20-23).

  37. Paul says, “And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all men, even as we do for you. To this end may He establish your hearts to be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.” (1 Thessalonians 3:12-13 MEV).

  38. Paul says,“Men, brothers, I have conducted-myself with all good conscience before God up to this day” (Acts 23:1 DLNT)

  39. Paul says, “This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person [or the perfect Man; Christ], growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [ to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness ].” (Ephesians 4:13 EXB).

  40. Paul says, “It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ” (Colossians 1:28 NABRE).

  41. Paul says, “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2).

  42. Paul says, “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ” (Colossians 2:11).

  43. Paul says, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

  44. The author Hebrews says, “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).

  45. Paul says, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:25-27). Jesus says, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.” (John 17:17-19). For Jesus says, “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you” (John 15:3).

  46. John says, “For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).

  47. Paul says, “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

  48. Jesus says, “So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 22:10-13). A Multitude of People in Heaven says, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.(Revelation 19:7-8). Note: the fine linen that represents the righteousness of the saints is the same wedding garment that the man at the wedding did not have on.

  49. Paul says, “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.” (Philippians 2:15).

  50. John says, “But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.” (1 John 2:5).

BigMike said:
And if that was possible why did Jesus pay such an incredible price for us?

I also believe Jesus paid an incredible price for mankind to receive the gift of salvation. However, this incredible price paid was to do what?

Scripture says,

Titus 2:14 says,
"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Ephesians 5:25-27 says,
25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."


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