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Boxing and being a Christian?

faroukfarouk

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Varied indeed. There is extreme overlap between African, Indian, Pacific Island, and Greater-Asia martial arts. Most of them born out of necessity, which is why I say everyone should know a martial art as a human (Tae Kwon Do was developed for kicking soldiers off of horses, for example.)

And, I likely would wear my earring in appropriate places if my body didnt reject it.

Well, maybe if you talked to a piercer in a parlor, s/he could see about embedding a stud or a very small tunnel, if you really want it.

Yes, like you say, with cultures and martial arts there is overlap It sees that the term 'indigenous' on its own needs to be qualified further.
 
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tatteredsoul

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Honestly, I dont think i will try again. I tried around the same time I got my tattoo, and while I was a young adult my parents were hoping I wouldn't get a piercing. So, when I had to tell them twice I rejected the piercing you hear their compassion, but feel their glee :tearsofjoy:

If I got a piercing now, and it rejected I would feel that glee from them again, and probably other people. Plus, I am not that interested now. Although, looking back maybe it was for the best because I may have grown to have more holes in me than a sponge, and my body would have looked like an urban subway station wall.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Honestly, I dont think i will try again. I tried around the same time I got my tattoo, and while I was a young adult my parents were hoping I wouldn't get a piercing. So, when I had to tell them twice I rejected the piercing you hear their compassion, but feel their glee :tearsofjoy:

If I got a piercing now, and it rejected I would feel that glee from them again, and probably other people. Plus, I am not that interested now. Although, looking back maybe it was for the best because I may have grown to have more holes in me than a sponge, and my body would have looked like an urban subway station wall.
Well, you must know how much you want it, anyway.

Did you similarly get some negativity about your tattoo (!) when you were trying to get the earring?
 
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tatteredsoul

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Well, you must know how much you want it, anyway.

Did you similarly get some negativity about your tattoo (!) when you were trying to get the earring?

Ironically, no. But, I think it is because I was trusted (and my parents' faith was rewarded) that I wouldn't get a face tattoo, or a tattoo that I couldn't get a job with (I was in college.) I got this tattoo specifically so that I could wear short-sleeved button down shirts and it would not be seen - or maybe a peek of the tattoo would be seen. They even recorded the tattoo which, in retrospect was probably why the artist did so well on my tattoo (this was also at the very beginning of social media - maybe a year before, or the year Youtube was launched.) I think the artist thought 1) his work was going to be put online, 2) we were recording for evidence in case of foul play, 3) he would get a lot of business afterward....

Although, I don't want to take away from his artistry, or scruples (as if it wouldn't be as nice if it wasnt recorded.)


When I tried to pierce my ear the first time, I was in in B.C., Canada - not the States. That was somewhat impulsive, but definitely contributed to the "glee" felt when my ear rejected it. My parents are also very old school, so a piercing (especially for a guy) is sort of a novelty.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Ironically, no. But, I think it is because I was trusted (and my parents' faith was rewarded) that I wouldn't get a face tattoo, or a tattoo that I couldn't get a job with (I was in college.) I got this tattoo specifically so that I could wear short-sleeved button down shirts and it would not be seen - or maybe a peek of the tattoo would be seen. They even recorded the tattoo which, in retrospect was probably why the artist did so well on my tattoo (this was also at the very beginning of social media - maybe a year before, or the year Youtube was launched.) I think the artist thought 1) his work was going to be put online, 2) we were recording for evidence in case of foul play, 3) he would get a lot of business afterward....

Although, I don't want to take away from his artistry, or scruples (as if it wouldn't be as nice if it wasnt recorded.)


When I tried to pierce my ear the first time, I was in in B.C., Canada - not the States. That was somewhat impulsive, but definitely contributed to the "glee" felt when my ear rejected it. My parents are also very old school, so a piercing (especially for a guy) is sort of a novelty.
Oh so maybe your dad doesn't have earrings and maybe your mom has only one each side, if they are 'old school', like you say.

Seems that so many ppl who do martial arts do get tattoos, women as well.
 
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tatteredsoul

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Oh so maybe your dad doesn't have earrings and maybe your mom has only one each side, if they are 'old school', like you say.

Yes. And, my mom only wears subtle studs, or small loop earrings. Dad wears no earrings.

Seems that so many ppl who do martial arts do get tattoos, women as well.

Because when you get high enough in martial arts, it becomes part of the philosophy/religion aspect. I get it, but this is why I also said I couldn't continue in traditional martial arts training - not if I were to take it as seriously as I had been taking it. At the level I was getting into, I would be learning how to control ki, how to activate and siphon energy through chakras, and other things (like concussive blasts using only ki, lifting impossible things with ki only, etc.) But, I would have also been "compelled" strictly to align myself with the respective philosophy.

Also, I don't think there is anything remotely close to the suggestive barring of tattoos in martial arts as there is in the bible.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Yes. And, my mom only wears subtle studs, or small loop earrings. Dad wears no earrings.



Because when you get high enough in martial arts, it becomes part of the philosophy/religion aspect. I get it, but this is why I also said I couldn't continue in traditional martial arts training - not if I were to take it as seriously as I had been taking it. At the level I was getting into, I would be learning how to control ki, how to activate and siphon energy through chakras, and other things (like concussive blasts using only ki, lifting impossible things with ki only, etc.) But, I would have also been "compelled" strictly to align myself with the respective philosophy.

Also, I don't think there is anything remotely close to the suggestive barring of tattoos in martial arts as there is in the bible.
So are you referring to Leviticus 19.28?

Yes, well, if one's mom has at least 2 each side, it would be harder for her hypothetically to argue against even 1 ring on one side for a son!
 
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ewq1938

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When you get to a high enough level in martial arts, it is almost a liability to fight someone anyway; you can easily seriously injure someone.

I'm going to have to disagree there. Only one who is not disciplined is going to harm someone worse than is called for. Years ago I trained in Shotokan and a couple other styles and learning what amount of force was needed was part of the training.
 
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tatteredsoul

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I'm going to have to disagree there. Only one who is not disciplined is going to harm someone worse than is called for. Years ago I trained in Shotokan and a couple other styles and learning what amount of force was needed was part of the training.

Well, I wasn't really talking about worse than it is called for - I am talking about accidents, or displays of power when in a no-rules fight. At the base, not everyone knows how to fall, so even a transferal of energy defensive move can seriously injure someone.

And, I was speaking sort of for myself. I have done Shotokan, but I also do Muay Thai. So, I am in constant flux between a defensive fighting style, and a combat sport "martial art" form of kickboxing.
 
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ewq1938

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Well, I wasn't really talking about worse than it is called for - I am talking about accidents, or displays of power when in a no-rules fight. At the base, not everyone knows how to fall, so even a transferal of energy defensive move can seriously injure someone.

Sometimes you have to also defend the person you are fighting :)
 
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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta

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Even if you ask and lose? Or might it be more consistent with His nature to be unconcerned with who wins a boxing match?

Sports that are known for causing significant damage to the body should be avoided.

That said, we should praise God when we win and when we lose.
 
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chess123mate

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Before a couple days ago, I hadn't considered the topic - I just assumed that all sports (assuming the intent is non-lethal) were OK. Now I am unsure, having seen some arguments against at least the more violent ones.

It is my opinion that if boxing could be done reliably with no injuries, there would be nothing wrong with it. (I think most people agree with this?) But it seems that many sports do involve a significant risk of injury. I looked up "golf injuries" just now and was somewhat surprised to see numerous injuries that can result from it (though it looks like none of them are life-threatening). Should we say Christians should not participate in golf because of this? Where do we draw the line between "barely more risky than day-to-day living" and "potential for life-threatening injuries or death"? (Of course, every day in life has the potential for life-threatening injuries/death!)

I also believe that sports have social benefit, even if the participants are more likely to get injured in the process. Being able to compete without trying to kill each other allows countries something to strive for that isn't war, for instance. I don't know if there's any merit to my hypothesis, but if there is, wouldn't some risk of injury be outweighed by the social benefit? https://www.sportengland.org/research/benefits-of-sport/ suggests there is even personal benefit in engaging in sports (according to studies)! No, Christians should not try to hurt each other (or others), but sports usually aren't about this (and in the case of boxing or other fighting sports, you at least aren't aiming to permanently harm your opponent, are you?)
(All this said, I don't know if the benefits of boxing couldn't equally be gained by less dangerous sports, or if it crosses a line by being too dangerous.)


I was also surprised to read in this thread that everyone seems to be recommending against thanking God for victory publicly. I have read others be inspired by this (though usually they are Christian). I don't see how this is "self-serving" (as some have suggested). To me, "self-serving" would be saying "Yes, I won solely because of my effort." How is thanking God more self-serving than that?
Maybe it depends on how you word it? I don't think that God specifically intervenes to cause someone to win or lose a match (generally speaking), so it would be incorrect (and possibly a disservice to Christianity) to imply that you only won because of God (as it raises the question of "what about when you lost?")

So if you argue that you attributing your wins to God is not a good idea (or, more broadly, thanking God at all for wins is not good), what would you recommend someone say if they wanted to involve God?
 
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Deadworm

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I think Paul was a boxer or a boxing fan. He specifically talks about fighting the good fight in both 1 and 2 Timothy. I highly doubt that Paul would use such an analogy if fighting was somehow inherently sinful.


The NT uses several athletic metaphors to illustrate the need for self-discipline: e. g.
"I do not box as though beating the air; but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others, I myself should not be disqualified (1 Corinthians 9:27)."

Several years ago, I attended my first and only boxing card at the Mecca of boxing, the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. As I booked my flight and hotel through my travel agent, she knew I was a local pastor and she railed against tourists who went to Vegas to attend violent UFC and boxing matches, wrongly assuming that I'd agree! I meekly kept silent about my plans to attend a boxing card during my week in Vegas.

The main event was the world welterweight championship fight between the idols of Mexico (Antonio Marguerito) and Puerto Rico (Miguel Coto). I have never seen such passion at a sporting event, including shoving and fights between the legion Mexican and Puerto Rican fans. I arrived early to watch the prelims at 2 PM. The pay-per-view card didn't start until 8 PM! Initially, there were no more than 100 fans in an arena that would eventually hold 10,000 fans. In front of me, 5 Mexican guys were getting drunk and I began to wonder if this was any place for a Christian. Then God found a humorous way to show me what He thought of my dilemma.

Sitting right behind me were 2 unaccompanied gorgeous young women. I overheard their conversation and was absolutely shocked by their topic. They were talking about all the things that were wrong with the United Methodist church that one gal used to attend--the liturgy, the music, the sermons, the Bible studies, etc. Both of them now attended Joel Osteen's church in Houston. After 20 minutes of this, I interrupted, smiling: "Your conversation greatly interests me because I'm a United Methodist pastor, and you make some good points." They laughed their heads off at this coincidence. Then when the next fight started, one guy got away with a low blow, and these church gals screamed and cussed at the ref! God seems to have a sense of humor! By the way, Marguerito knocked out Cotto.

On another day, I walked a couple of miles in the 100 degree heat and started to feel woozy; so I ducked inside the Circus Circus and sat down at a poker bar to cool off. I was feeling a tad guilty, sitting there, when a beautiful young black woman inexplicably sat next to me and we began to converse. She lamented that her boyfriend was being verbally abusive to her there. She used to sing in her United Methodist choir and wanted to study to become a physical therapist. But her plans all changed when her boyfriend got her pregnant. She quit church and gave up her vocational dream. Another gorgeous United Methodist gal, young enough to be my daughter (I'm single)! I witnessed to her, urging her to dump her boyfriend, go back to her church choir, and enter her dreamed physical therapy program. I assured her that she'd meet the right bright appealing young man in such a helping profession.
Absolutely stunned by my admonitions, she innocently asked, "Are you one of those angels unawares that the Bible says we might encounter?" I laughed and said I doubted guardian angels sweat like a greased hog like me!

We didn't realize that some men at the bar were staring at us. One scuzzy guy rushed forward, pointed his finger at me, and shouted, "Be careful, honey, I've seen his kind all over Vegas. I don't know what BS he's been dishing out, but you can't trust a word of it!" At first, I was offended, but then I thought about his reaction and realized that, to him, I must be some rich sugar daddy, spinning a yarn to pick up this babe. Then it hit me: God can be a loving presence anywhere, depending on our attitude; and He can use us anywhere if we are open to His promptings.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Christians believe that humans are made in God's image.
Boxing involves inflicting visible and internal damage on it.

The body is also described as God's temple.
Boxing requires an attack on that temple.

Sports that are known for causing significant damage to the body should be avoided.

That's pretty much my view.

Fine to learn any form of self defense, but to make a sport out of anything that's going to include a good chance of significant bodily harm to yourself or others just doesn't seem like a good idea. That includes risky, thrill seeking, whether it be a sport competition or for self gratification.

As to Paul condoning boxing, I'm thinking some might be reading that into the scripture for whatever reason, but I'd have to look a little closer to be certain..
 
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Mudinyeri

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As to Paul condoning boxing, I'm thinking some might be reading that into the scripture for whatever reason, but I'd have to look a little closer to be certain..

Please do. Although, I didn't say he condoned boxing ... just that he might have been a boxer himself. If he wasn't a boxer or didn't enjoy the sport, why would he use the analogy?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Please do. Although, I didn't say he condoned boxing ... just that he might have been a boxer himself. If he wasn't a boxer or didn't enjoy the sport, why would he use the analogy?

I know you didn't. My comment wasn't anything personal...I've seen this discussed before and the reasoning behind it so figured a general comment was in order..
 
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