Bovine fossils and evolution

[tevans9129]

With the billlllions of fossil images, can anyone provide physical evidence of bovine fossils, not an artist's rendition but an actual, unaltered photograph? Can you provide any physical evidence of what species and which specific entity of that species evolved into what specific entity of the bovine species? I have not been able to find answers to these questions.

Did I mention, I am not looking for opinions/beliefs but verifiable evidence, if there is any using this definition of "species".

"Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species."

EDITED:
I will gladly engage in any serious discussion of the subject, IF, we both agree to answer all questions that we may be asked and furthermore, if the question is not understood, ask for clarification and then answer the question rather than doing nothing more than denigrating the question as a deflection.

 

[Hank77]

With the billlllions of fossil images, can anyone provide physical evidence of bovine fossils, not an artist's rendition but an actual, unaltered photograph?

Prehistoric bison fossil.
TUCSON, ARIZONA, FEBRUARY 12. GeoDecor Fossils & Minerals at..

 

[Shemjaza]

Do you mean the wild ancestor of modern domestic cows?

 

[pitabread]

Have you seen this paper? It includes a comprehensive phylogenetic tree with references to various fossils used in the calibration of said tree: A multi-calibrated mitochondrial phylogeny of extant Bovidae (Artiodactyla, Ruminantia) and the importance of the fossil record to systematics | BMC Evolutionary Biology | Full Text

Can you provide any physical evidence of what species and which specific entity of that species evolved into what specific entity of the bovine species?

Just out of curiosity, but what is your current conceptual understanding of biological evolution and how it relates to the fossil record? Because the above question seems a bit odd, especially in conjunction with the definition of species you provided.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This may be rather pointless. In the case of horse evolution the ancestors of horses has been traced back to the common ancestor that they share with rhinos and hippopotamuses. If I recall correctly you tried to claim that ancestor was a "horse". Does that make rhinos and hippos horses?

 

[Hank77]

Do you mean the wild ancestor of modern domestic cows?

Here is a better photo of a bovine from the Ice Age.
Ice Age Fossils and Construction Workers Collide

 

[AV1611VET]

This may be rather pointless. In the case of horse evolution the ancestors of horses has been traced back to the common ancestor that they share with rhinos and hippopotamuses.

You mean on paper?

 

[tevans9129]

Do you mean the wild ancestor of modern domestic cows?

No, that is not what I meant. I do not know how I can phrase it any clearer than the OP but will try to clarify.

"Can you provide any physical evidence of what species and which specific entity of that species evolved into what specific entity of the bovine species?"

I even provided the definition that I am using.

"Biology. species - the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species."

If this helps, the specific mammal in the bovine group that evolved from the preceding species and which specific entity, in whatever that species was, evolved into the first mammal of the bovine genesis?

"The Bovidae are the biological family of cloven-hoofed, ruminant mammals that includes bison, African buffalo, water buffalo, antelopes, gazelles, sheep, goats, muskoxen, and domestic cattle. A member of this family is called a bovid."

 

[Subduction Zone]

You mean on paper?

Just like your Bible is only "on paper". We have reliable evidence for only one of them.

 

[tevans9129]

Prehistoric bison fossil.
TUCSON, ARIZONA, FEBRUARY 12. GeoDecor Fossils & Minerals at..

OK, thanks, I found one of a bison, are there others that I missed?

 

[Hank77]

No, that is not what I meant. I do not know how I can phrase it any clearer than the OP but will try to clarify.

"Can you provide any physical evidence of what species and which specific entity of that species evolved into what specific entity of the bovine species?"

I even provided the definition that I am using.

"Biology. species - the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species."

If this helps, the specific mammal in the bovine group that evolved from the preceding species and which specific entity, in whatever that species was, evolved into the first mammal of the bovine genesis?

"The Bovidae are the biological family of cloven-hoofed, ruminant mammals that includes bison, African buffalo, water buffalo, antelopes, gazelles, sheep, goats, muskoxen, and domestic cattle. A member of this family is called a bovid."

So you want to know the ancestor of the genus 'bos'. And want a photo of the fossil of that ancestor.

 

[pitabread]

"Can you provide any physical evidence of what species and which specific entity of that species evolved into what specific entity of the bovine species?"

I even provided the definition that I am using.

"Biology. species - the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species."

The problem with the biological species concept and fossils is that there is no way of knowing based strictly on fossil morphology where reproductive barriers exist. Hence, fossil species aren't defined in the same manner: morphological species concept definition

 

[Hank77]

OK, thanks, I found one of a bison, are there others that I missed?

Did you see post #6. But it is still a bison, although a much larger one. But I don't think that is what you are wanting.

 

[tevans9129]

Have you seen this paper? It includes a comprehensive phylogenetic tree with references to various fossils used in the calibration of said tree: A multi-calibrated mitochondrial phylogeny of extant Bovidae (Artiodactyla, Ruminantia) and the importance of the fossil record to systematics | BMC Evolutionary Biology | Full Text

I asked for physical evidence, such as unaltered photographs, but I see none. Reading claims by those promoting evolution, from one species to a different species without any evidence is getting a little tiresome for me.

Just out of curiosity, but what is your current conceptual understanding of biological evolution and how it relates to the fossil record? Because the above question seems a bit odd, especially in conjunction with the definition of species you provided.

We have a history and if you have no interest in a discussion as offered in the OP, I have no interest in chasing your rabbits and answering your questions.[/QUOTE]

 

[tevans9129]

Here is a better photo of a bovine from the Ice Age.
Ice Age Fossils and Construction Workers Collide

Are you saying that a mammoth is of the same species as a cow?

 

[tevans9129]

So you want to know the ancestor of the genus 'bos'. And want a photo of the fossil of that ancestor.

No, I do not, please read my post, I asked very specifically for what I want to know, and "genus" nor "bos" was in my question.

 

[Hank77]

Are you saying that a mammoth is of the same species as a cow?

No, there was a fossil of a great bison in the same article.

 

[pitabread]

I asked for physical evidence, such as unaltered photographs, but I see none. Reading claims by those promoting evolution, from one species to a different species without any evidence is getting a little tiresome for me.

It has a list of fossil species which presumably you could then use a point to search for pictures of said fossils, especially as the enclosed paper includes various references for said fossils.

To thumb your nose at it outright seems a bit odd given your ask in the OP and the included phylogeny in the paper.

We have a history and if you have no interest in a discussion as offered in the OP, I have no interest in chasing your rabbits and answering your questions.

I sense from your posts there is a conceptual gap in understanding of biological evolution, particularly when you give a definition for the biological species concept in apparent application to fossils. The biological species concept is useful for extant, living populations of things, not so much for extinct species that are only known from the fossil record based on morphology.

The reason I'm bringing this up is having a correct conceptual understanding of biological evolution, phylogenies of species and the fossil record will make it easier to interpret what you are being given in response to your questions.

 

[Hank77]

No, I do not, please read my post, I asked very specifically for what I want to know, and "genus" nor "bos" was in my question.

All bovine are in the genus 'bos' , bison, ox, goats, antelope, etc.

If you only want to know if the Ice Age bison is an ancestor of domesticated cattle I think we could yes.

 

[tevans9129]

All bovine are in the genus 'bos' , bison, ox, goats, antelope, etc.

If you only want to know if the Ice Age bison is an ancestor of domesticated cattle I think we could yes.

Sorry, that is not what I want to know.