~leviticus 20:13~
We often use leviticus 18:20 to show God's disgust for homosexual sex, my question is that if leviticus 18:20 is still in force today does that not mean that leviticus 20:13 is also in force today? Should we be stoning people?
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
"both of them shall be put to death"
- Thread starter SwordOfGod
- Start date
~leviticus 20:13~
We often use leviticus 18:20 to show God's disgust for homosexual sex, my question is that if leviticus 18:20 is still in force today does that not mean that leviticus 20:13 is also in force today? Should we be stoning people?
UnitedInChrist
Veteran
Being that Leviticus was most probably mis interpreted...there isn't much to say here. however, like you say..in the event it is correct (although in it's current english does not reflect the original text), then not only should we be stoning, but it will also be done to men that cut their hair, those that eat shell fish, children that talkbacks to their parents, wear mixed fiber clothing, have sex other than procreate, etc...
Upvote
0
TheFathersDaughter
The Revolution has Started
Leviticus is HEBREW law, not Christian law. And don't tell me some of it is tradition or whatever. It was all COMMANDED by God for Moses and his people. You can't pick and choose what's Hebrew law and what's God's law. :3
Upvote
0
- Aug 21, 2003
- 29,117
- 6,145
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Rick, I KNOW beyond any question, whatsoever, that you know Leviticus has NOT been misinterpreted, because I have posted evidence from the Talmud and the early church fathers, which you have ignored to keep posting your fairy tale.
That evidence has NEVER been addressed in any meaningful manner, and of course has NEVER been refuted, by you or anyone else. OTOH all we have from you is your unsupported tall tale, about "mis interpreted" and "english does not reflect the original text."
All those out-of-context references you mentioned were abrogated in the N.T.
In Judaism the requirements for stoning was the offender must have been warned, before hand, that his actions were punishable by death, and there must be two, or more witnesses.
Then, of course, the above speculation ignores the fact that Jesus made the requirement for stoning, he who would stone someone, must be without sin himself.
Upvote
0
- Aug 21, 2003
- 29,117
- 6,145
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Christians are responsible to obey ALL the law reiterated in the N.T. The Levitical injunction against homosexuality is reiterated in the N.T., you know the passages. The ones that gays try to claim a. don't mean homosexuality, b. refer only to pagan worship, c. doesn't include a loving monogamous relationship, etc. etc. etc. And the ones that I have posted several quotes from the early church showing all of these, and other, excuses to be false.
The picking and choosing are those laws specifically commanded of Christians in the N.T. The numbers in red denote which of the 10 commandments.
Matt 15:19, by Jesus
evil thoughts
(6) murders
(7) adulteries
(OT) fornications
(8) thefts
(9) false witness
(3) blasphemies
Matt 19:18-19, by Jesus
(6) murder
(7) adultery
(8) Thou shalt not steal
(9) Thou shalt not bear false witness,
(5) Honour thy father and thy mother
(OT) Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Matt 22:37- 39, by Jesus
(1) Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(OT) Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mark 7:21, by Jesus
evil thoughts
(7) adulteries
(OT) fornications
(6) murders,
(8) Thefts
(10) covetousness
wickedness
(OT) deceit
(OT) lasciviousness
an evil eye
(3) blasphemy
pride
foolishness:
Rom 1:29-31, by Paul
(OT) unrighteousness
(OT) fornication
(OT) wickedness
(10) covetousness
maliciousness
envy
(6) murder
debate
deceit
malignity
whisperers
Backbiters
(1) haters of God
despiteful
proud
boasters
inventors of evil things
(5) disobedient to parents
Without understanding
(OT) covenantbreakers
without natural affection
implacable
unmerciful
1 Cor 6:9-10, by Paul
(OT) fornicators [size=+1]πορνοι[/size]
(2) idolaters [size=+1]ειδωλολατραι[/size]
(7) adulterers
effeminate [size=+1]μαλακοι[/size]
abusers of themselves with mankind [size=+1]αρσενοκοιται[/size]
(8) thieves [size=+1]κλεπται[/size]
(10) covetous
drunkards
(OT) revilers
(OT) extortioners
Eph 5:3-5, by Paul
(OT) fornication
(OT) uncleanness
(10) covetousness
(OT) filthiness
foolish talking
jesting
Acts 15:20 and Acts 21:25, by Paul
(2) abstain from pollutions of idols
(OT) fornication
(OT) things strangled
(OT) blood.
Rom 2:22, by Paul
(7) Adultery
(2) Idolatry
1 Cor 5:11, by Paul
(OT) Fornicator
(10) Covetous
(2) Idolater
Railer
Drunkard
(OT) Extortioner
1 Cor 10:7-10, by Paul
(10) Idolaters
(OT) Fornication
tempt Jesus
(1) murmur (against God)
Col 3:5-9, by Paul
(2) Fornication (which is idolatry)
Uncleanness (which is idolatry)
inordinate affection (which is idolatry)
evil concupiscence (which is idolatry)
covetousness, which is idolatry
anger
wrath
malice
(3) blasphemy
filthy communication out of your mouth.
(9) Lying
1 Peter 4:3, by Peter
(OT) Lasciviousness
Lusts
excess of wine
revellings
banquetings
(10) abominable idolatries
Rev 21:8, by John
fearful,
(OT) unbelieving,
(OT) abominable
(6) murderers,
(OT) whoremongers,
(OT) sorcerers
(10) idolaters
(9) liars
Rev 22:15, by John
(OT) Dogs (sodomites)
(OT) Sorcerers
(OT) Whoremongers
(6) Murderers
(2) Idolaters
(9) liars
Upvote
0
TheFathersDaughter
The Revolution has Started
Homosexuality isn't on that list though.
Heck, sodomy isn't even on that list. EDIT: Never mind, found sodomy. But it seems like it's directed towards beastality. Either way, I've already told you how sodomy =/= homosexuality.
Upvote
0
RMDY
1 John 1:9
- Apr 8, 2007
- 1,531
- 136
- 41
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
homosexuality is listed in O.T. as a wicked thing.
Abomination means an act of wickedness.
speaking of which, which one of these in leviticus do you consider to be sinful and not sinful:
1 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying:
2 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them: I am the LORD your God.
3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not follow their statutes.
4 My ordinances you shall observe and my statutes you shall keep, following them: I am the LORD your God.
5 You shall keep my statutes and my ordinances; by doing so one shall live: I am the LORD.
6 None of you shall approach anyone near of kin to uncover nakedness: I am the LORD.
7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is the nakedness of your father.
9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether born at home or born abroad.
10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, begotten by your father, since she is your sister.
12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's flesh.
13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's flesh.
14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law: she is your son's wife; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness.
17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are your flesh; it is depravity.
18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.
19 You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness.
20 You shall not have sexual relations with your kinsman's wife, and defile yourself with her.
21 You shall not give any of your offspring to sacrifice them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
23 You shall not have sexual relations with any animal and defile yourself with it, nor shall any woman give herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it: it is perversion.
24 Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for by all these practices the nations I am casting out before you have defiled themselves.
25 Thus the land became defiled; and I punished it for its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
26 But you shall keep my statutes and my ordinances and commit none of these abominations, either the citizen or the alien who resides among you
27 (for the inhabitants of the land, who were before you, committed all of these abominations, and the land became defiled);
28 otherwise the land will vomit you out for defiling it, as it vomited out the nation that was before you.
29 For whoever commits any of these abominations shall be cut off from their people.
30 So keep my charge not to commit any of these abominations that were done before you, and not to defile yourselves by them: I am the LORD your God.
Which one of these in leviticus has been altered in the N.T.?
Come on. I believe that only homosexuals will agree with each other that the only one that has been changed is the leviticus rule about the homosexuality part.
As a Christian, I believe all of them are still considered sins and we should abstain from doing all those things.
Abomination means an act of wickedness.
speaking of which, which one of these in leviticus do you consider to be sinful and not sinful:
1 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying:
2 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them: I am the LORD your God.
3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not follow their statutes.
4 My ordinances you shall observe and my statutes you shall keep, following them: I am the LORD your God.
5 You shall keep my statutes and my ordinances; by doing so one shall live: I am the LORD.
6 None of you shall approach anyone near of kin to uncover nakedness: I am the LORD.
7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is the nakedness of your father.
9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether born at home or born abroad.
10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, begotten by your father, since she is your sister.
12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's flesh.
13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's flesh.
14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law: she is your son's wife; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness.
17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are your flesh; it is depravity.
18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.
19 You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness.
20 You shall not have sexual relations with your kinsman's wife, and defile yourself with her.
21 You shall not give any of your offspring to sacrifice them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
23 You shall not have sexual relations with any animal and defile yourself with it, nor shall any woman give herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it: it is perversion.
24 Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, for by all these practices the nations I am casting out before you have defiled themselves.
25 Thus the land became defiled; and I punished it for its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
26 But you shall keep my statutes and my ordinances and commit none of these abominations, either the citizen or the alien who resides among you
27 (for the inhabitants of the land, who were before you, committed all of these abominations, and the land became defiled);
28 otherwise the land will vomit you out for defiling it, as it vomited out the nation that was before you.
29 For whoever commits any of these abominations shall be cut off from their people.
30 So keep my charge not to commit any of these abominations that were done before you, and not to defile yourselves by them: I am the LORD your God.
Which one of these in leviticus has been altered in the N.T.?
Come on. I believe that only homosexuals will agree with each other that the only one that has been changed is the leviticus rule about the homosexuality part.
As a Christian, I believe all of them are still considered sins and we should abstain from doing all those things.
Upvote
0
TheFathersDaughter
The Revolution has Started
I'm pretty sure a lot of Leviticus was changed. Of all the verses in the NT that condemns homosexuality, they were all spoken by Paul. NEVER ONCE DID CHRIST SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT. It was all Paul. Christ covered the sins pretty well, but unlike Paul, He concentrated on the forgiveness then the sin. Paul was really negative.
Upvote
0
RMDY
1 John 1:9
- Apr 8, 2007
- 1,531
- 136
- 41
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
Actually, this part of Leviticus I quoted was not changed to compensate for the N.T.. It still stands as considered sinful in the N.T. Jesus didn't need to address it. Can you imagine Jesus going around telling people it wasn't sinful anymore to go around sleeping with your blood-relatives and animals as well as people from the same-sex back in His day. The only difference now is we can repent through Jesus rather than be stoned for our actions.
Upvote
0
TheFathersDaughter
The Revolution has Started
There's a reason Christ didn't need to address those. There are obvious physical and mental complications. But homosexuality doesn't come with that so Christ DID need to address it.
Upvote
0
Well probably not stoning people, the bible says though shalt not kill. However they are wrong, and it is our duty as christians to tell them that. It is GOD's duty to punish them how he sees fit.
Upvote
0
Time4AChange
Regular Member
Im not trying to embarrass you in any way my brother, but when Scripture is being fulfilled, it's so encouraging to see it. I was just reading not too long ago in Matthew when Jesus said unless you come to me as a little child, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Sometimes we get to intellectual and smart for our own good, that we completely mix up what God is about. But what does a little child do? He holds on to what his father says, and believes EVERY word with his whole heart...and that's what we're called to do.
You have wisdom way beyond your age my brother, and that's not you...it's God, so to Him be all the glory. What you just said, alot of people havent even figured out that simple truth, cuz they over-analyze everything. Thank you my brother, you've been an encouragement and i can learn from you.
Upvote
0
RMDY
1 John 1:9
- Apr 8, 2007
- 1,531
- 136
- 41
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- In Relationship
- Politics
- CA-Conservatives
See, that is the thing. Homosexuals cannot accept the verse that says homosexuality is wicked, but can accept that other verses in that chapter of leviticus.
Christ, existing in the past, present, and future, would have addressed it if he needed to.
Come on man! Your dealing with God who sends prophesies out to people and who already knows the future and has already defeated Satan in the future.
If Christ was going to change rules on homosexuality being an abomination, a wicked thing, he would have done so back then.
Upvote
0
fact critique:
That doesn't change the fact that the Bible may be commanding us to kill certain people for their actions. This just means we should warn them and give them a trial.
This argument does not take into consideration goverment enforced execution. Should the government be killing all active homosexuals?
Upvote
0
I'm not arguing that active homosexuality is not wrong. I'm asking if since this commandment is still in force, shouldn't the corresponding punishment listed in leviticus also still be in force?
Upvote
0
- Aug 21, 2003
- 29,117
- 6,145
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Are you a priest, a judge, a law enforcement official of any kind? If not, then why dont you leave the responsibility for enforcing the law to those whom are so appointed? If you and another witness, or two, see somebody violating Gods law, the both of you should report it to the proper authorities, and your responsibility ends there.
Are you the government? See the O.T. requirements for imposing the death penalty, above. If, and when, God appoints you as a judge or executioner, then you might be justified in worrying about this. Until then, why not concern yourself with scripture that directly affects you, personally?
In the commandment the word translated you shall not kill, is the specific word for murder, not a general term for killing. It was not murder for those officially appointed, to carry out a lawfully adjudged death penalty.
SwordOfGod said:
Still ignoring Jesus' reinterpretation of the applicable scripture. Since you seem bound and determined to impose the death penalty on someone, you go and convene the Jewish Sanhedrin, of, not less than, 70 Jewish Elders, in the temple, in Jerusalem, call your 2-3 prosecution witnesses, and at least 2 defense witnesses, and get'er done.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
