Book of Mormon Study Group: Input wanted

[emerald Dragon]

Truth is Truth. We worship God. We pray to God, but in the name of the Son. Scripture is open to what God decides to reveal to us at this time.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[CCWoody]

Oh give me a break!! W e believe in the Christ of the New Testament -that makes us Christian. The Christ that we follow is the sme Christ of the NT. I follow Him, and only Him. I do not follow Satan, in any form. I worship God the Father, through His Son, Jesus Christ, with the Eternal Witness of the Holy Ghost. We just disagree with the interpreations that man, though time, has come up with in regards to certain scriptures in the bible. Where you see a scripture say that God, Christ and the Ghost are one in being, we see that it says that they are One in Purpose and Authority. No where does it say in the bible that God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are physically the same person.

No, you believe in a Mormonized version of what you call Christ. That is different. For example, my Lord doesn't have a spirit brother called Satan.

So, when we Christians speak about the Lord and you Mormons speak about your Jesus, we are talking about entirely different persons.

The differences betwen the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that we interpret certain key scriptures in the bible differently than everyone else. This is also how many differences between other churches arise.

That in and of itself proves that we are talking about entirely different persons when we refer to the Lord Jesus. So, either the ENTIRE confessing church fell into apostasy like you Mormons believe, or you guys are just following around false prophets. We can't both be Christians, of Christ. One of us is being fooled into nothing more than the devil's empty assurance that Jesus is the way the truth and the life without having ever met this Person. After all, our interpretation of this person from Scripture is completely different so one of us has clearly not actually met Him. You see, it is hard to describe someone whom you have never met. You may know some things about him, but you don't actually know him.

Seeing that you are of those who claim that the gates of Hell have actually prevailed against the church for most of this present dispensation of grace, which calls the Scriptures themselves a lie, it should be absurdly obvious which one of us is following a false god.

Think of it like this. We both describe a person whom we both call Larry. However, our descriptions of this person are different. Therefore, as a matter of plain sense, we are describing two different persons who just happen to share the name Larry.

That is what is happening here. And, having actually met the Lord, I can assure you that you are barking up the wrong religious tree.

We, the entire body of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, honor, rever, and treasure in Jesus Christ, as mentioned in the New Testament. We worship only One God, the Eternal Heavenly Father.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

Your Jesus and your god, not mine, as I have just plainly demonstrated. The simple truth of the matter is that you deny such absurdly clear verses like this one with your teaching. Else, how can there have been praise in the Church of Jesus Christ in every generation if this falling away of what you Mormons would have us believe happened:

Vnto him therefore that is able to do exceeding aboundantly aboue all that we aske or thinke, according to the power that worketh in vs, Be praise in the Church by Christ Iesus, throughout all generations for euer, Amen.
(Ephesians 3:20-21 GB)


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[emerald Dragon]

What I am trying to say is that if we both look at the same random scripture, the possibility exists that we will view its significance and true meaning differently. We may say that one verse is saying this, while another says that the same verse says that. The general meaning of the bible will remain the same, but on many of the specific details, we deviate. I honor and love the Christ of the New Testament, and have come to know Him. Not just about Him, but I KNOW Him. I would have it no other way.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[Helaman]

Christ is Christ is Christ. There is only one. The fact that we have some disagreements regarding nonessential facts about Him is irrelevant. He is the Savior. That is the essential element, and we agree thereon. These other things are just set up to distract and confuse, not to mention belittle.

 

[rnmomof7]

Christ is Christ is Christ. There is only one. The fact that we have some disagreements regarding nonessential facts about Him is irrelevant. He is the Savior. That is the essential element, and we agree thereon. These other things are just set up to distract and confuse, not to mention belittle.

No we have a different God and a different Christ and a different Holy Spirit. Even your leader admits that .

 

[Wrigley]

Christ is Christ is Christ. There is only one. The fact that we have some disagreements regarding nonessential facts about Him is irrelevant. He is the Savior. That is the essential element, and we agree thereon. These other things are just set up to distract and confuse, not to mention belittle.

Whoa.

The fact that you have jesus being a created being and spiritual brother of satan is non-essential difference between the Christian position and the mormon?

Wow.

 

[emerald Dragon]

Christ isn't created. And the fact that Christ and Lucifer are spirit brothers is logical sense. Who created Lucifer? God. Who is God's only begotten son? Chirst. The two are not related by blood, but in a spiritual manner, as both come from God. As we also come from God, we are spirit brothers and sisters to both Christ and Lucifer, as we are spirit children of God. I think this is logical sense, supported by the bible.

An adoptive parent will usually call the adpotee their child. They are then "siblings" to the physicall children of the parent, yes? They are not realted, but their parent is the same, and that makes them siblings. This is our point.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[Helaman]

Do orthodox Christians not understand the War in Heaven and the relationship between God, Christ, and Lucifer, who used to be call the Son of the Morning, and what happened there? This is common doctrine, in at least the Catholic Church. I don't understand this constant harping re Lucifer being a brother of Christ. Cain was a brother of Able. Does that make Able any less of a holy person?

 

[CCWoody]

What I am trying to say is that if we both look at the same random scripture, the possibility exists that we will view its significance and true meaning differently. We may say that one verse is saying this, while another says that the same verse says that. The general meaning of the bible will remain the same, but on many of the specific details, we deviate. I honor and love the Christ of the New Testament, and have come to know Him. Not just about Him, but I KNOW Him. I would have it no other way.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

Is that Mormonspeak for it really doesn't matter if you turn the truth of God into a lie?

But, I digress....

Of course we view scriptures differently: I have a Truth receptor in my soul which gives me the ability to not be carried about by every man exalting doctrine. Therefore, I have rejected Mormonism, the BOM, the D&C, the PoGP, and every other uniquely Mormon teaching as a false way. Will you hear me? We shall see. 1 John 4:6

My Lord is not Satan's brother; He is Satan's creator. My Lord has never been created or born into a spirit existence. He has always been from everlasting to everlasting. And it is BY Him and for Him that all things were created. And, that point alone absolutely demonstrates that we are speaking of two completely different persons when we speak about our respective lords.

Quite obviously, we are describing different persons. And the Person I worship as Lord & God has declared that unless your confession and hope rests solely in Him, then you are following a false christ of a false prophet's invention. He may bear some vague resemblance to the real Christ, but he has no ability to save those who go to him. He can only offer the devil's useless assurance that he is the way and the truth and the life. It is like a mirage in the distance. It promises refreshment for your parched life, but can offer no living water.

But, anyway, here is just one scripture which shreds your false belief from your false prophet that there was an apostasy:

Vnto him therefore that is able to do exceeding aboundantly aboue all that we aske or thinke, according to the power that worketh in vs, Be praise in the Church by Christ Iesus, throughout all generations for euer, Amen.
(Ephesians 3:20-21 GB)
​

 

[CCWoody]

Christ is Christ is Christ. There is only one. The fact that we have some disagreements regarding nonessential facts about Him is irrelevant. He is the Savior. That is the essential element, and we agree thereon. These other things are just set up to distract and confuse, not to mention belittle.

The fact that my Lord is not Satan's brother, but his creator is not "nonessential." It is absolute proof that we worship different lords. I'm sorry if you believe that the truth is setup to "distract" and "confuse" you from your intended course. Perhaps you best listen and not dismiss me as "belittling" you. I might just be the last messenger of God sent to you before you are sealed into your fate.

I could just as easily call a clay pot "Jesus" and bow down and worship and declare all else to be "nonessential." But, I would be sadly self-deceived in the worship of my idol.

I've met the Lord and He ain't Satan's brother; He is his creator.

 

[CCWoody]

Lucifer, who used to be call the Son of the Morning,....

Perhaps you can untwist this logic for me:

Satan was called the Day star, the Son of the Morning.
Jesus is called the Morning Star.

Whom is whom's son and whom is whom's brother?

BTW, why do you insist upon calling Satan by his honored name of Lucifer? Are you afraid to upset him?

 

[rnmomof7]

Christ isn't created.

Nothing is created according to your doctrine ..so this means nothing .

Your christ was an eternal "intelligence " that became a "spirit child of the "heavenly father and one of his wives.

Lucifer like your christ is also eternal ..as we all are in your doctrine .

That way when the observant men become gods that can say they are eternal..:>)

And the fact that Christ and Lucifer are spirit brothers is logical sense.

Only to a Mormon

Who created Lucifer? God.

You just told us that Christ WAS NOT CREATED ..but now you are saying his brother was ?

Who is God's only begotten son? Christ. The two are not related by blood, but in a spiritual manner, as both come from God.

Do you even read your own doctrine?
Christ is called the "only begotten son" because he was conceived in Mary by your god. This is a reference to the human nature of Christ.

You do not believe the beings (the spirit children) in heaven have blood..(flesh and bone)

Lucifer was never given a mortal body so he has no blood .

They are both born to the heavenly father and one of his wives. So they are at least half spirit brothers .

We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. [Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27).

Jesus was willing to come to the earth, give his life for us, and take upon himself our sins. He, like our Heavenly Father, wanted us to choose whether we would obey Heavenly Father's commandments. He knew we must be free to choose in order to prove ourselves worthy of exaltation. Jesus said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2).



Mormon Gospel Principles

As we also come from God, we are spirit brothers and sisters to both Christ and Lucifer, as we are spirit children of God. I think this is logical sense, supported by the bible.

Could I see your bible citations?

An adoptive parent will usually call the adpotee their child. They are then "siblings" to the physicall children of the parent, yes? They are not realted, but their parent is the same, and that makes them siblings. This is our point.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

That is not what your doctrine teaches and I believe you know that . If Lucifer was not also a sprit child of the heavenly father ..where did he come from? What god converted him from intelligence to spirit ?

 

[emerald Dragon]

For the last time, God did not have sexual relations with Mary. Through the power of the Holy Ghost did Mary concieve Christ. That is our belief. Christ was the only one who is a literal, physical son of God, the rest are His spirit children, as such essentially created. Lucifer was the first of this buch, and then the rest of humanity came along. What I am saying is that God is rersponible for the creation, or birth, or being of everyone, and as such, He is their Father. He is therefore Lucifer's Father. If we all share the same father, we are all brothers and sisters.

In the pre-existence, no spirit child, Lucifer included had a physical body. We only hd our spirtul bodies.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[Helaman]

Perhaps you can untwist this logic for me:

Satan was called the Day star, the Son of the Morning.
Jesus is called the Morning Star.

Whom is whom's son and whom is whom's brother?

BTW, why do you insist upon calling Satan by his honored name of Lucifer? Are you afraid to upset him?

They are brothers because God created both of them. And because we are talking about the time BEFORE Satan was cast out, the reference to Lucifer is appropriate.

 

[rnmomof7]

For the last time, God did not have sexual relations with Mary. Through the power of the Holy Ghost did Mary concieve Christ.

The holy spirit is not the same as heavenly father,they are two different beings. How could he inseminate Mary for the father ?

The only thing that "makes sense " looking at Mormons doctrine is the father has intercourse with her.After all he has a body with all the equipment necessary. Where the spirit has no body of flesh and bone .

That is our belief. Christ was the only one who is a literal, physical son of God, the rest are His spirit children, as such essentially created.

Spirit children have a pre existence as intelligences . They were not created by the heavenly father It is rather like the heavenly father "organizing "matter to make the earth


The word create means to make out of nothing .jesus was made by the joining of sperm and existent egg. The heavenly father did not create him either

Lucifer was the first of this buch, and then the rest of humanity came along.

Lucifer was never given a human body ...so we did not all come along after him . At the time of the rebellion all the spirit children were present long before christ was conceived as a man . He was still a spirit child at the time of the war in heaven .

There is no distinction made between the spirit children . Christ and lucifer and all of us had exactly the same pre existence .

You just can not reconstruct it the way you want other to hear it
Do not run from your doctrine .

What I am saying is that God is rersponible for the creation, or birth, or being of everyone, and as such, He is their Father. He is therefore Lucifer's Father. If we all share the same father, we are all brothers and sisters.

Again your church does not believe he created anything.According to your doctrine satan is as much a son of the heavenly father as was jesus . And in the same way he is the father of all spirit children , embodied or not .

In the pre-existence, no spirit child, Lucifer included had a physical body. We only hd our spirtul bodies.

And neither did jesus .. you are making a distinction without a difference

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon[/QUOTE]

 

[Helaman]

The holy spirit is not the same as heavenly father,they are two different beings. How could he inseminate Mary for the father ?

The only thing that "makes sense " looking at Mormons doctrine is the father has intercourse with her.After all he has a body with all the equipment necessary. Where the spirit has no body of flesh and bone.

Spirit children have a pre existence as intelligences . They were not created by the heavenly father It is rather like the heavenly father "organizing "matter to make the earth.

The word create means to make out of nothing. jesus was made by the joining of sperm and existent egg. The heavenly father did not create him either.

Lucifer was never given a human body ...so we did not all come along after him . At the time of the rebellion all the spirit children were present long before christ was conceived as a man . He was still a spirit child at the time of the war in heaven .

There is no distinction made between the spirit children. Christ and lucifer and all of us had exactly the same pre existence.

Again your church does not believe he created anything. According to your doctrine satan is as much a son of the heavenly father as was jesus . And in the same way he is the father of all spirit children , embodied or not.

In my opinion, God the Father used the Holy Ghost to carry out the procedure of artificial insemination. And as to create v. organize, you're delving deeply into semantics. Think about it. Further, we believe that God created the entire Universe, and then organized matter in it to create worlds, etc.

Moreover, God created Jesus Christ first. Who was second? We know not. But we do know that God the Father created all of us as spirits-brothers and sister, and we existed in harmony for at least some period of time. Then Lucifer became power-hungry and rebelled against the Father. The War in Heaven ensued, and God cast Satan out of Heaven. Is there a problem with this? Catholics, from what I understand, believe the same.

 

[Wrigley]

Moreover, God created Jesus Christ first. Who was second? We know not. But we do know that God the Father created all of us as spirits-brothers and sister, and we existed in harmony for at least some period of time. Then Lucifer became power-hungry and rebelled against the Father. The War in Heaven ensued, and God cast Satan out of Heaven. Is there a problem with this? Catholics, from what I understand, believe the same.

Thanks for the admission that the mormon jesus is not eternal, but a created being.

I'll have to refer back to this post when I'm told not to worry about the "non essential" differences between the Christian God and the mormon god.

 

[Helaman]

Thanks for the admission that the mormon jesus is not eternal, but a created being.

I'll have to refer back to this post when I'm told not to worry about the "non essential" differences between the Christian God and the mormon god.

That's fine. But it's still nonessential. What is essential is that Jesus had the power to save us, and He did. That is all that is essential.

 

[Wrigley]

That's fine. But it's still nonessential. What is essential is that Jesus had the power to save us, and He did. That is all that is essential.

I pray that God opens your eyes so that you may see that it is an essential difference. And that differance shows the mormons are in error. And that their faith is in the wrong Jesus.

For their Jesus can't save.

This is a very foundational difference.

 

[Der Alte]

In my opinion, God the Father used the Holy Ghost to carry out the procedure of artificial insemination. And as to create v. organize, you're delving deeply into semantics. Think about it. Further, we believe that God created the entire Universe, and then organized matter in it to create worlds, etc.

Houston, we have a problem! In another discussion on this forum, several days ago, on this same subject, the good LDS folks rung in a ringer on me, who I strongly suspect was a Hebrew instructor or Professor at BYU. And this fine august gentleman quoted recent scholarly sources which "prove" God "created" from preexisting, eternal matter. And in another thread within the last few days another LDS was arguing that man could not have free will or agency if God created from nothing. There is nothing like having a consistent hermeneutic.