BoM Trinity

[Tawhano]

If God and Jesus are two separate personages then which one of them created the heavens and earth?

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 14:9)
9 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, who created the heavens and the earth, a light which cannot be hid in darkness;

(Book of Mormon | Mormon 9:11)
11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles, even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Abraham, Chapter 4

1 AND then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

It is believed by LDS that Jesus Christ and God the Father are the 'Gods' as described in the Pearl of Great Price. Jesus Christ created the earth under the direction of the Father.

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES
CREATE, CREATION​

To organize. God, working through his Son, Jesus Christ, organized the elements in nature to form the earth. Heavenly Father and Jesus created man in their image (Moses 2: 26-27).


In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, Gen. 1: 1. Let us make man in our image, Gen. 1: 26 (Moses 2: 26-27; Abr. 4: 26). All things were made by him, John 1: 3, 10. By him were all things created that are in heaven, Col. 1: 16 (Mosiah 3: 8; Hel. 14: 12). God made the worlds by his Son, Heb. 1: 2. Man was created in the beginning, Mosiah 7: 27. I created the heavens and the earth and all things, 3 Ne. 9: 15 (Morm. 9: 11, 17). All men were created in the beginning after mine own image, Ether 3: 15. Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth, D&C 14: 9. He created man, male and female, after his own image, D&C 20: 18. Worlds without number have I created, Moses 1: 33. By mine Only Begotten I created heaven, Moses 2: 1. I, the Lord God, created all things spiritually before they were naturally upon the face of the earth, Moses 3: 5. Millions of earths like this would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations, Moses 7: 30. The Gods organized and formed the heavens, Abr. 4: 1.

http://scriptures.lds.org/gsc/crtcrtn

Moses, Chapter 2

1 AND it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I reveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the words which I speak. I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things; yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Abraham, Chapter 4

1 AND then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

It is believed by LDS that Jesus Christ and God the Father are the 'Gods' as described in the Pearl of Great Price. Jesus Christ created the earth under the direction of the Father.

GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES​

CREATE, CREATION

To organize. God, working through his Son, Jesus Christ, organized the elements in nature to form the earth. Heavenly Father and Jesus created man in their image (Moses 2: 26-27).


In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, Gen. 1: 1. Let us make man in our image, Gen. 1: 26 (Moses 2: 26-27; Abr. 4: 26). All things were made by him, John 1: 3, 10. By him were all things created that are in heaven, Col. 1: 16 (Mosiah 3: 8; Hel. 14: 12). God made the worlds by his Son, Heb. 1: 2. Man was created in the beginning, Mosiah 7: 27. I created the heavens and the earth and all things, 3 Ne. 9: 15 (Morm. 9: 11, 17). All men were created in the beginning after mine own image, Ether 3: 15. Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth, D&C 14: 9. He created man, male and female, after his own image, D&C 20: 18. Worlds without number have I created, Moses 1: 33. By mine Only Begotten I created heaven, Moses 2: 1. I, the Lord God, created all things spiritually before they were naturally upon the face of the earth, Moses 3: 5. Millions of earths like this would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations, Moses 7: 30. The Gods organized and formed the heavens, Abr. 4: 1.

http://scriptures.lds.org/gsc/crtcrtn

Moses, Chapter 2

1 AND it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I reveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the words which I speak. I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things; yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest.

Arizona, when you go to the temple, you will learn that what you have stated above is not exactly what the lds "believe" about who exactly created the earth. I could go into detail about it but I am assuming you don't want to know exactly what the temple cermimony teaches.

Grace

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Arizona, when you go to the temple, you will learn that what you have stated above is not exactly what the lds "believe" about who exactly created the earth. I could go into detail about it but I am assuming you don't want to know exactly what the temple cermimony teaches.

Considering the understanding you have contributed of our doctrine and ceremonies, I will go ahead and wait to learn for myself.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Considering the understanding you have contributed of our doctrine and ceremonies, I will go ahead and wait to learn for myself.

You have never even been to the temple by your own admission. Therefore, you have no justification to say that my understanding of the ceremonies there are wrong. However, since I do not embrase the LDS teachings and think they are straight from the pit, of course as a TBM, you are going to assume that I just "don't understand". Your choice.

Grace

 

[arizona_sunshine]

You have never even been to the temple by your own admission. Therefore, you have no justification to say that my understanding of the ceremonies there are wrong. However, since I do not embrase the LDS teachings and think they are straight from the pit, of course as a TBM, you are going to assume that I just "don't understand". Your choice.

Let me clerify. Considering the understanding you have voluntarily shared of doctrine and ceremonies that I do happen to understand and with which I do have experience within my church, I will go ahead and wait to learn for myself what the temple experience is like and what knowledge is to be gleaned there.

Dont expect a follow-up.


I do not classify people within my church as 'true blue' and what not. That is your 'thing.'

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Let me clerify. Considering the understanding you have voluntarily shared of doctrine and ceremonies that I do happen to understand and with which I do have experience within my church, I will go ahead and wait to learn for myself what the temple experience is like and what knowledge is to be gleaned there.

Dont expect a follow-up.


I do not classify people within my church as 'true blue' and what not. That is your 'thing.'

True Believing

 

[arizona_sunshine]

True Believing

Like I said, its your thing.

I question the understandings you have presented, not whether or not you are 'true believing.'

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Like I said, its your thing.

I question the understandings you have presented, not whether or not you are 'true believing.'

I am a true believing Christian, I have never on this claimed to be a true believing Mormon currently. I was for many years but in no way am I one now.

Grace

 

[arizona_sunshine]

I was for many years but in no way am I one now.

And I believe you. But when you present misinformation about my faith I will disagree regardless of the history you claim.

Have I answered Tawhano's question appropriately considering the LDS scriptural support I have offered and to which I have access?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

And I believe you. But when you present misinformation about my faith I will disagree regardless of the history you claim.

Have I answered Tawhano's question appropriately considering the LDS scriptural support I have offered and to which I have access?

I have not presented misinformation about the LDS church. You may not embrace what your decieced leaders taught at one time but that does not make it misinformation.

Grace

 

[twhite982]

If God and Jesus are two separate personages then which one of them created the heavens and earth?

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 14:9)
9 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God, who created the heavens and the earth, a light which cannot be hid in darkness;

(Book of Mormon | Mormon 9:11)
11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles, even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are.

To address the OP, Jesus is the creator of the heavens and earth through the instrumentality of the Father. Jesus is the active power (the word or verb)behind God the Father's creation. Heb 1:1-3, Moses 1:33, 2:1 In the case of the creation of man we specifically see the Father and Son in the creation process.

No contradiction at all.

Tom

 

[arizona_sunshine]

I have not presented misinformation about the LDS church. You may not embrace what your decieced leaders taught at one time but that does not make it misinformation.

Have I answered Tawhano's question appropriately considering the LDS scriptural support I have offered and to which I have access?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Have I answered Tawhano's question appropriately considering the LDS scriptural support I have offered and to which I have access?

I don't know what all you have access to, so I can't say for sure. If you want me to bring in the details of the "meat" of the answer, I can.

Grace

 

[arizona_sunshine]

happyinhisgrace

I don't know what all you have access to, so I can't say for sure.

Yes you do know the extent of my access to doctrine

http://scriptures.lds.org/

and can answer the question accordingly.

If you want me to bring in the details of the "meat" of the answer, I can.

That is a taunt and you know it.

You suggest that what is learned in the temple runs contrary to what is learned thru the scriptures. I do not believe that to be possible, but if you have an ounce of decency in you, you will be respectful to those whose beliefs you once shared. Tease us if you will, that is fine, but be respectful.

Now.

twhite and I provided Tawhano with agreeing answers to his question. Did we provide an answer that is sound according to LDS scripture?

Yes or No.

 

[twhite982]

I don't know what all you have access to, so I can't say for sure. If you want me to bring in the details of the "meat" of the answer, I can.

Grace

Grace,

I've been reading through this discussion and am scratching my head as to what you really mean by the "meat" of the answer.

I may have a clue what you might be getting at, but if its actually the point you're driving at, its without support.

PM me if you like to discuss the "meat" of your answer of which I think you're referring to the endowment ceremony.

Arizona and I have already answered the point of the OP.

What is the problem?

Tom

 

[happyinhisgrace]

happyinhisgrace

I don't know what all you have access to, so I can't say for sure.

Yes you do know the extent of my access to doctrine

http://scriptures.lds.org/

and can answer the question accordingly.

If you want me to bring in the details of the "meat" of the answer, I can.

That is a taunt and you know it.

You suggest that what is learned in the temple runs contrary to what is learned thru the scriptures. I do not believe that to be possible, but if you have an ounce of decency in you, you will be respectful to those whose beliefs you once shared. Tease us if you will, that is fine, but be respectful.

Now.

twhite and I provided Tawhano with agreeing answers to his question. Did we provide an answer that is sound according to LDS scripture?

Yes or No.

Did I say "contrary to"? NO!!!!!!!! That is just a lie on your part, yes, a lie. This is EXACTLY what I said,
Arizona, when you go to the temple, you will learn that what you have stated above is not exactly what the lds "believe" about who exactly created the earth. I could go into detail about it but I am assuming you don't want to know exactly what the temple cermimony teaches.

No, it is not "completely" sound to lds scripture. The temple cermony is still considered scripture, right? TW knows the ceremony and knows there is more to it than just what you have stated. Do you want me to state the rest of it or not? This is getting rediculous. You know what, forget it...I am just going to state it.

In the lds temple ceremony, you are taught that God and Jesus are not the only ones who created the earth. Infact, God (Elohim) did not create anything. He just tells (directs) Jesus and Micheal the archangel (who is Adam) to go down and create the different things on different days and then Jesus and Micheal say they will do it and report back when it is done and they do. Jesus and Adam (Micheal) actually create the earth as God tells them on each day to do. That is the meat!

Grace

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Grace,

I've been reading through this discussion and am scratching my head as to what you really mean by the "meat" of the answer.

I may have a clue what you might be getting at, but if its actually the point you're driving at, its without support.

PM me if you like to discuss the "meat" of your answer of which I think you're referring to the endowment ceremony.

Arizona and I have already answered the point of the OP.

What is the problem?

Tom

No, my point is not without support unless you believe that the lds temple cerimony is not scripture.

Grace

 

[twhite982]

delete

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Did I say "contrary to"? NO!!!!!!!! That is just a lie on your part, yes, a lie. This is EXACTLY what I said,
Arizona, when you go to the temple, you will learn that what you have stated above is not exactly what the lds "believe" about who exactly created the earth. I could go into detail about it but I am assuming you don't want to know exactly what the temple cermimony teaches.

I did not lie, here is what I said:

You suggest that what is learned in the temple runs contrary to what is learned thru the scriptures.

I alluded to a suggestion that you did, in fact, make in your first post. Since we are both wording our statements carefully, neither one of us are 'lying.' I find your blatent label that I lied offensive, and that was your direct intention; to be blatently offensive.

According to scripture, to which you know I have access, you know that my answer was sound.