Bnp

[TemperateSeaIsland]

I don't know if you've noticed but May Day and folk traditions aren't neccessarily pagan. They're as much about tradition as religion. Sort of along the same lines as Christmas festivites and Easter and easter eggs - loosely based on religion (i.e. religion is the underlying point) yet they're fun and anyone (regardless of religion) can take part.

As I stated "hinted at". Folk festivals are generally pre-christian so by default go back to out pagan roots. But as you stated Easter and christmas have a number of pagan traditions associated with them so if your ok with them going back to folk festivals shouldnt be a problem. Heck there are places in the UK that do them now.

- if you've got a quote or reference to back that up it would be helpful. Otherwise it's just hearsay.

Nope what I says is simply opinion but opinion based on history. The BNP says a lot of things the national socialists of Germany said in the 1920's. Don't get me wrong they don't have the rampant anti-semitism of the Nazi's but a lot of their language is the same. They are both authoritarian, nationalistic parties who have an obsession with some mythical golden age in the past. They try to recapture it through emphasizing certain things such as athletic/artistic ability, female fertility, environmentalism and old traditions such as folk festivals. I know the above sounds very vague and should warrant me a tinfoil hat but I'm not a very good writer and its at the limits of my ability to communicate how the BNP manifesto mirrors many policies of the National Socialists. Suffice to say when I read their manifesto old Nazi propaganda videos of young boys and girls doing athletics, and learning about their people great past and future run through my head. (Damn that makes me sound like a perv ) I'm not saying that should the BNP come to power we're gonna wipe out all our minorities and go on a war spree but even without those things a National Socialist Germany wasn't such a nice place.

Im simply following trends and admit I may be wrong when it comes to eugenics.

 

[InnocentOdion]

I've only read the first page, but I have to put in my two cents:

I'm not a member of the BNP, but I don't think they are racist. I admire one thing about them: at least they've got the guts to actually say what they believe.

Reading and listening to the liberal crud that comes out the mouths of people is quite sickening. People take nationalism to be equal to racism nowadays, so even if the BNP weren't racist--and I'm not saying they are or are not, or even if there was another nationalist party, people would say they are racist, too. People are so frightened of being proud of their culture. People mistake nationalism for racism, and often racism for nationalism.

I know what makes you British. It's in your heart. It's loving this country, being willing to fight for it, and not trying to have it changed to suit a few people. It's about valuing democracy, culture, and freedom. Whether you were born here from immigrant, immigrated here, or have been here since earliest time possible, and if you're ashamed of, embarrassed about, hate or feeling nothing towards the country , then you aren't British, and frankly, you don't deserve to be here, and if I were in power I would do everything I can to make sure that was what happened. Just be glad I'm not in power because things would change.

I can trace my lineage back longer than 500 years and yes, I've been in this country for a long, long time.

This doesn't mean that I'm a skinhead neo-Nazi who goes to KKK meetings, however. I would happily kick a Nazi in the teeth. Just so people can't play the 'zomg you're a racist!' card at me: Many, many of my friends are from Eastern Asia or Eastern Europe and I love everyone for who they are regardless of their race, I'm just proud of my country, and my friends actually like and respect the fact I have enough backbone to love the country I was brought up in, despite its flaws.

I'll stop no, before I lose my patience.

 

[Allister]

10 Core Values of British Identity



I. The rule of law. Our society is based on the idea that we all abide by the same rules, whatever our wealth or status. No one is above the law - not even the government.

I would tend to agree.
II. The sovereignty of the Crown in Parliament. The Lords, the Commons and the monarch constitute the supreme authority in the land. There is no appeal to any higher jurisdiction, spiritual or temporal.

I like the idea of the European court that can overrule the British authority when needed.
III. The pluralist state. Equality before the law implies that no one should be treated differently on the basis of belonging to a particular group. Conversely, all parties, sects, faiths and ideologies must tolerate the existence of their rivals.

JRW, How would you and the BNP respond to this?
IV. Personal freedom. There should be a presumption, always and everywhere, against state coercion. We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.

JRW, in reference to homosexuality, how do you feel about this?
V. Private property. Freedom must include the freedom to buy and sell without fear of confiscation, to transfer ownership, to sign contracts and have them enforced. Britain was quicker than most countries to recognise this and became, in consequence, one of the happiest and most prosperous nations on Earth.

I tend to agree, however i think that these freedoms should come with certain regulations and restrictions

VI. Institutions. British freedom and British character are immanent in British institutions. These are not, mostly, statutory bodies, but spring from the way free individuals regulate each other's conduct, and provide for their needs, without recourse to coercion.


VII. The family. Civic society depends on values being passed from generation to generation. Stable families are the essential ingredient of a stable society.

I agree, but this stability can come in many forms, from single parent families to homosexual parents.
VIII. History. British children inherit a political culture, a set of specific legal rights and obligations, and a stupendous series of national achievements. They should be taught about these things.

History should be taught in an unbiased and objective way (as pyhsically possible) and should not carry political agendas.

IX. The English-speaking world. The atrocities of September 11, 2001, were not simply an attack on a foreign nation; they were an attack on the anglosphere - on all of us who believe in freedom, justice and the rule of law.

Hang on a second there. Aren't we talking about BRITISH culture, not ENGLISH culture. the "english speaking world", I imagine the speakers of Welsh, Cornish, Scottish, Manxs etc would have something to say about this.
X. The British character. Shaped by and in turn shaping our national institutions is our character as a people: stubborn, stoical, indignant at injustice. "The Saxon," wrote Kipling, "never means anything seriously till he talks about justice and right."

The British are not all Saxons.

I'm not insecure in the slightest, I just don't agree with what they are doing as I believe it goes against the Bible.

so what? it goes against the bible, big deal.

Is not contraception against the bible? are you as vocal or agressive against people who wear condoms or take the pill?

A: We mean the bonds of culture, race, identity and roots of the native British peoples of the British Isles. We have lived in these islands near on 40,000 years! We were made by these islands, and these islands are our home. When we in the BNP talk about being British, we talk about the native peoples who have lived in these islands since before the Stone Age, and the relatively small numbers of peoples of almost identical stock, such as the Saxons, Vikings and Normans, and the Irish, who have come here and assimilated. BNP FAQ section

40,000 years?

saxons arrived in Britian after the fall of the Roman Empire from Germany.

The term Viking commonly denotes the ship-borne warriors and traders of Norsemen (literally, men from the north) who originated in Scandinavia and raided the coasts of the British Isles and mainland Europe as far east as the Volga River in Russia from the late 8th–11th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings#British_Isles

In 1066, the most famous Norman leader, Duke William II of Normandy, conquered England. The invading Normans and their descendants replaced the Anglo-Saxons as the ruling class of England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans#Normans_and_Normandy

It is the Celtic people that are the original peoples of Britian (excluding pre-historic peoples of europe). Are you a decendent of the Celtic people?

 

[non-religious]

[InnocentOdion]
I'm not a member of the BNP, but I don't think they are racist.

No they are not a racist organisation then.

They do not allow black people to join their party. Infact they want to pay for non-whites to leave. The ignorance of some people is very alarming. No wonder they are able to influence those with (how should I phrase this) susceptible minds. Perhaps you are blissfully unaware (ignorant would probably be a more appropriate term) of their members lives? The word thug doesn't do it justice.

I always laugh when I hear people say "I have got black and asian friends." Me thinks thou protesteth to much.......... Yeah sure you have......

I'm just waiting for the "it's political correctness gone mad" card to be pulled out of the hat. I mean what else can they say about a party that lacks real policies and has the combined intellect of a snail. Thank God we have people here and in the wider communities who are intelllegent enough to look deeper than the false front of "we are not a racist party."

The BNP are not a racist party? My gosh, it just get worse

 

[non-religious]

deleted post.......

 

[InnocentOdion]

Thank you for twisting everything out of context, just as I suspected someone would do, but I expected more from you, non-religious? I expected more.

The word 'narrow-minded' sprang to mind during my reading of this. I can't believe someone will call someone else ignorant and say they have a "susceptible mind" because someone doesn't think in the standardised hate-filled way of them, even though I've made it quite clear I don't support them, I just admire their courage and I admire how people love their country despite being called racism, and how nationalism and racism are considered the same thing in this country now.

No they are not a racist organisation then.

Much better. However, who are you to judge other people? Shouldn't God be the judge? I don't support them, but they're allowed to exist. They are a legitimate party and it is illegal to discriminate against anyone who supports them, anyway, get with the programme.

They do not allow black people to join their party. Infact they want to pay for non-whites to leave.

I'm well aware. That doesn't count as racism. That counts as discrimination. They should change their stance because it's outdated by about 30 years. However, as far as I'm aware, the moving abroad part bit is optional.

The ignorance of some people is very alarming. No wonder they are able to influence those with (how should I phrase this) susceptible minds.

Don't you dare judge someone you don't even know--especially me, ever. I'm a freethinker and don't affiliate with any political party, especially Labour, Lib Dems, Tories or BNP. I do my research in-depth. I'm not some fool who has been brainwashed by this group.

Perhaps you are blissfully unaware (ignorant would probably be a more appropriate term) of their members lives? The word thug doesn't do it justice.

I am aware, I'm also aware of some of the labour thugs and some people who are in the BNP aren't going to be neo-Nazi skin heads, and neither are the Labour members, so we can't judge the actions of a few for the majority. Are all Muslims suicide bombers? I don't think so. Oh, and don't ever call me ignorant. I do my research.

I always laugh when I hear people say "I have got black and asian friends." Me thinks thou protesteth to much.......... Yeah sure you have......

I do indeed. Want a list of names? People say that for one reason: liberal fascists.

I'm just waiting for the "it's political correctness gone mad" card to be pulled out of the hat.

Well, it is. Though I'm not pulling that card.

I mean what else can they say about a party that lacks real policies and has the combined intellect of a snail.

They need to modernise, they need to change, they need to adapt, they need to scrap the old ways?

Thank God we have people here and in the wider communities who are intelllegent enough to look deeper than the false front of "we are not a racist party."

Not true. Unless people are getting stupider and stupider.

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

They do not allow black people to join their party. Infact they want to pay for non-whites to leave.

Answered by

I'm well aware. That doesn't count as racism. That counts as discrimination...

Wait, do you know how silly that sounds? Racism by its definition is discriminating because of someones race. You'll essentially saying their discriminating against black people but its not racist.

 

[non-religious]

[InnocentOdion]Thank you for twisting everything out of context, just as I suspected someone would do, but I expected more from you, non-religious? I expected more.

The word 'narrow-minded' sprang to mind during my reading of this. I can't believe someone will call someone else ignorant and say they have a "susceptible mind" because someone doesn't think in the standardised hate-filled way of them, even though I've made it quite clear I don't support them, I just admire their courage and I admire how people love their country despite being called racism, and how nationalism and racism are considered the same thing in this country now.


Much better. However, who are you to judge other people? Shouldn't God be the judge? I don't support them, but they're allowed to exist. They are a legitimate party and it is illegal to discriminate against anyone who supports them, anyway, get with the programme.

I'm well aware. That doesn't count as racism. That counts as discrimination. They should change their stance because it's outdated by about 30 years. However, as far as I'm aware, the moving abroad part bit is optional.

Don't you dare judge someone you don't even know--especially me, ever. I'm a freethinker and don't affiliate with any political party, especially Labour, Lib Dems, Tories or BNP. I do my research in-depth. I'm not some fool who has been brainwashed by this group.

I am aware, I'm also aware of some of the labour thugs and some people who are in the BNP aren't going to be neo-Nazi skin heads, and neither are the Labour members, so we can't judge the actions of a few for the majority. Are all Muslims suicide bombers? I don't think so. Oh, and don't ever call me ignorant. I do my research.

I do indeed. Want a list of names? People say that for one reason: liberal fascists.

Well, it is. Though I'm not pulling that card.

They need to modernise, they need to change, they need to adapt, they need to scrap the old ways?

Not true. Unless people are getting stupider and stupider.

May God bless you

 

[InnocentOdion]

Wait, do you know how silly that sounds? Racism by its definition is discriminating because of someones race. You'll essentially saying their discriminating against black people but its not racist.

It doesn't sound silly if you read their view on things; using their interpretation of racism, hatred or fear of other races, they aren't. They're just bigots, opinionated, whatever you would like to call them. They discriminate against everyone, so it's not racism, it's ethnocentrism or discrimination against everyone. Racism doesn't cover it, so it's either not racist, or it's more than racist. I've heard rumours they don't allow gay people, gay people aren't a race, so it isn't just racism.

May God bless you

May God bless you, too, my brother.

 

[non-religious]

[TemperateSeaIsland]
Wait, do you know how silly that sounds? Racism by its definition is discriminating because of someones race. You'll essentially saying their discriminating against black people but its not racist.

You know what? I feel dirty even having to respond to these kinds of posts. I will leave those that want to becry the demise of their great country (rolls eyes) and opt out of this thread with the wise words of Christ Himself.

Just as a note. I find it very difficult to have any love, let alone like for people who promote these repugnant kinds of beliefs, but as a man of God I have to rise above my own disdian for people who judge others based solely upon the colour of their skin (still in this day and age ) and learn to love them.

I'll bow out with this:

But, I say love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.

If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for you?

Peace......

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

May God bless you

May God bless you, too, my brother.

Is "may God bless you" some kind of Christian version of "I know you are but what am I?" kinda thing.

InnocentOdion -I'll try to address your last post to me later on, I'm off to work.

 

[Pogue]

One small point- I've heard the phrases 'I've got lots of Asian/black friends' used many times to try and prove that someone's not racist. I don't think it proves anything of the kind (please note- this isn't directed at anyone here, and I'm not accusing anyone of being racist, just saying that I don't think this works as proof against being racist) By classifying your friends according to race, you're showing that you are very aware that they are of a different race, maybe to the extent of being uncomfortable about it. You can't define the way you think just by who your friends are.

 

[artybloke]

I'm not a member of the BNP, but I don't think they are racist.

Yes they are. Personally, I'd like to invite an Asian family to come and live next door to you. Perhaps an asylum seeker, like the Christian doctor I met from Pakistan who had to flee his country because he'd converted from Islam. People were threatening to murder him and his whole family. He got on the first available flight out of there... Or how about the people from the Congo, again fleeing in fear of their lives, because they protested about Government corruption?

You could talk about torture, imprisonment and legalised murder over the garden fence.

Anybody who thinks that the BNP are anything more than an odious bunch of fascists is deluding themselves.

 

[sebastian]

A question I've always had when people talk about have has more rights to live in a country because they can claim to be native, over those who cannot. we as a british empire have gone all over the world, colonised and set up homes as far as Asia to the Americas. If we can just turn upto thier countries, mess around with them, rule over them, teach them how to be 'civilised' rape them of thier natural wealth and culture. I think it's not so bad if they turn up here, they have a right to really.

 

[Bonhoffer]

[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] where on earth did that come from?

Although the BNP never state that they are a pagan party, the very language they use reveals a desire to revert the country back to its pagan past, rather than move the UK into the glorious Kingdom of God.

Dr Phil Edwards, a spokesman for the BNP, has stated that interacial harmony is impossible because its against evolutionary determinism.

As for hating Israel, not only do they deny the holocaust, but they take every chance to stir up anger against Israel.
This is not some legitimate honest criticism (I criticise Israel policy sometimes), but this is just rabble rousing.

 

[Allister]

the very language they use reveals a desire to revert the country back to its pagan past

Can you give some examples

 

[JRW1989]

Wait, do you know how silly that sounds? Racism by its definition is discriminating because of someones race. You'll essentially saying their discriminating against black people but its not racist.

Does that make the Black Police Association racist for not allowing whites?

 

[JRW1989]

Anybody who thinks that the BNP are anything more than an odious bunch of fascists is deluding themselves.

Anyone who believes a Liberal Democrat is also just as delusional

Anyone else up for embryo experimentation?

 

[JRW1989]

Although the BNP never state that they are a pagan party, the very language they use reveals a desire to revert the country back to its pagan past, rather than move the UK into the glorious Kingdom of God.

Dr Phil Edwards, a spokesman for the BNP, has stated that interacial harmony is impossible because its against evolutionary determinism.

As for hating Israel, not only do they deny the holocaust, but they take every chance to stir up anger against Israel.
This is not some legitimate honest criticism (I criticise Israel policy sometimes), but this is just rabble rousing.

- if you've got proof then maybe i'll take the comment seriously. If you're going to make accusations like that then you need a reference to back them up

 

[JRW1989]

I think it's not so bad if they turn up here, they have a right to really.

why do they have that right?