Bnp

Pogue · Jun 15, 2007

TemperateSeaIsland said:
Problem is some of these things are part of your culture not mine and not many other peoples.

Ale = yes I enjoy drinking it and there is a culture behind the brewing but many people would not consider it part of British culture and some would regard it as a negative part.

Cricket = Boring not part of my culture

walking the country lanes = I do this but I do it for exercise and the view. I don't consider it cultural and if it is then it's certainly not exclusively British.

cucumber sandwich = Uck, I a bland sandwich is you idea of culture then...

cup of tea = Very nice but not very British, its contamination from those damn Asian peoples.

So thats 1/5 that I consider to be a part of my culture... Am I British?

The thing you're failing to grasp is that a nations culture isn't some homogeneous monolith that everyone born and bred in that nation subscribes to. It's made up of sub cultures that some people share while others dont. Sure a majority of people can share one or more of these subcultures like drinking afternoon tea with cucumber sandwiches after the cricket but these trends don't define a nations culture, its defined by each individual. Thats why I consider the idea of British culture (tm) a myth/construct.

I agree. Out of all the things listed there, only walking on country lanes appeals to me. As for tea, I hate it, and very much prefer coffee. Does this make me less British in any way, even though I was born and brought up here? Or at least less British than someone who was also born and brought up here, but enjoys all of those things? Those things aren't a central part of British culture; they're just things which some people in Britain like doing.

ScottishJohn · Jun 15, 2007

AV1611 said:
You have obviously lived a sheltered life up there in Scotland. Jeff Spinner-Halev has written an excellent book on this subject:

Again, I'm not interested in what your conservative commentators have to say. I'm more interested in the richness that all the people from different ethnic backgrounds bring to my life and the lives of others.

As for being sheltered according to these statistics I am slightly less sheltered than you are - 2.04% of Chesires population is not white. 4.79% of Glasgow's population is not white. Interestingly enough both Chesire and Glasgow seem to have around 600,000 + population.

http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F1845708-586A-42A5-940C-213B4B69B370/0/PopE36.pdf

http://www.icar.webbler.co.uk/?lid=4664

ScottishJohn · Jun 15, 2007

TheLordReigns said:
I heard the radio programme too. The lady also said that these 'BNP' members were arrested. At once I knew she was lying ... if BNP members were found acting in this kind of thuggish way, and were arrested, it would have been all over the national news.

Lying eh? So you presume to know what is in her heart?

TheLordReigns said:
If anyone hates black people, then that would be wrong. However you are assuming you know the hearts of all BNP supporters, and are, in fact, guilty of the kind of narrow-minded and generalised prejudices which you imagine only BNP members indulge in.

No, we are assuming nothing - we are looking at what the BNP themselves proclaim, and what they themselves are involved in and judging their party on that basis. Yes I am sure there are plenty of deluded people who would present similar reasons to the ones you presented, but they are just not careful about looking into exactly what it is that they are signing up to.

ScottishJohn · Jun 15, 2007

AV1611 said:
Hence my What if?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/29/nsharia29.xml

UK Muslims 'want Sharia law'

News - Will Canada introduce Sharia law?

For your 'what if' to be a serious concern for a rational person, then the minority populations concerned would have leapfrog from 5% or 6% to the point where they have a majority. Given that this is not going to happen your 'what if' is a complete waste of time and energy, and another example of the alarmist nonsense that people use to frighten others into behaving in a less than pleasant way towards other groups.

ScottishJohn · Jun 15, 2007

TemperateSeaIsland said:
Problem is some of these things are part of your culture not mine and not many other peoples.

Ale = yes I enjoy drinking it and there is a culture behind the brewing but many people would not consider it part of British culture and some would regard it as a negative part.

Cricket = Boring not part of my culture

walking the country lanes = I do this but I do it for exercise and the view. I don't consider it cultural and if it is then it's certainly not exclusively British.

cucumber sandwich = Uck, I a bland sandwich is you idea of culture then...

cup of tea = Very nice but not very British, its contamination from those damn Asian peoples.

So thats 1/5 that I consider to be a part of my culture... Am I British?

The thing you're failing to grasp is that a nations culture isn't some homogeneous monolith that everyone born and bred in that nation subscribes to. It's made up of sub cultures that some people share while others dont. Sure a majority of people can share one or more of these subcultures like drinking afternoon tea with cucumber sandwiches after the cricket but these trends don't define a nations culture, its defined by each individual. Thats why I consider the idea of British culture (tm) a myth/construct.

Pogue said:
I agree. Out of all the things listed there, only walking on country lanes appeals to me. As for tea, I hate it, and very much prefer coffee. Does this make me less British in any way, even though I was born and brought up here? Or at least less British than someone who was also born and brought up here, but enjoys all of those things? Those things aren't a central part of British culture; they're just things which some people in Britain like doing.

EXACTLY!!!

As soon as people try to define what our culture is they find out that it is everything and nothing. It changes for each person, it involves things which are not at all unique to Britain, or British in origin, and even in a tiny village you will not find a concensus.

So how do you proscriptively defend such a mish mash? You can't! And that is a good thing, if we blocked everything that came from elsewhere - then even your cucumber sandwiches (cucumbers introduced to western Europe from Asia by the Romans, Wheat also originate in Asia, and arrived in the British isles about 5000 years ago) would never have been adopted. As for Ale, the kind of ale you recognise didn't exist until Hops arrived in England from Holland about 500 years ago.

TheLordReigns · Jun 15, 2007

AV1611 said:
What happens if these push Parliament to enforce their culture upon us? That is the issue I see.

Personally I take the view of Jeff Spinner-Halev and conservative communitarians rather than the BNP

I would recomend Gary North's Conspiracy in Philadelphia instead. Though speaking of the American situation, its lessons are transferable, and shows how we have accepted Enlightenment presupositions with regards to our view of government.

michaelb · Jun 15, 2007

although i aint a bnp supporter i do think all british people should support a nationalist party be it bnp,n.a or n f
without sounding too racist i think all the mainstream parties are selling british identity down the river.
our forefathers fought in the wars for the red white and blue not to see pakistani,indian and gay pride flags flying everywhere.

Assyrian · Jun 15, 2007

I though they fought those wars to see Pakistan, India and a lot of other countries full of Johnnie Foreigners become part of the British Empire?

Martin^^ · Jun 15, 2007

michaelb said:
our forefathers fought in the wars for the red white and blue not to see pakistani,indian and gay pride flags flying everywhere.

Many thousands of men from the Indian subcontinent fought in both world wars, under the 'red, white and blue'.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/server/show/conMediaFile.39802

You will find more factual information about the role of the commonwealth nations here:
http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/commonwealth/

The world wars were not won exclusively by straight white men. Although they were largely started by them.

ScottishJohn · Jun 15, 2007

michaelb said:
although i aint a bnp supporter i do think all british people should support a nationalist party be it bnp,n.a or n f
without sounding too racist i think all the mainstream parties are selling british identity down the river.
our forefathers fought in the wars for the red white and blue not to see pakistani,indian and gay pride flags flying everywhere.

What is British Identity?

rizzla · Jun 15, 2007

Bald people with beer bellies that wear 3/4 length shorts, hate foreigners but live on curry & have 'Buy british" stickers in the back of their Toyotas.

rizzla · Jun 15, 2007

I guess I'm just one of those Christians that likes to believe that my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ would take a stand against such hate. The form of hate that organisations that the BNP promote......

I agree totally; but I’d extend it to include my fellow brothers who might have a different creed or colour; I’ve been with the ANL (Anti-Nazi League) longer than I’ve been with Christ. Maybe I’m too romantic, but "Opinions alter, manners change, creeds rise and fall, but the moral laws are written on the table of eternity". And the day the BMP ever come to power is the day our moral standards will have slid of that table and crashed to the ground.

So okay, preserving cultural norms isn’t such a helpful term since its open to misunderstanding. What about preserving cultural standards instead? Not totally dissimilar, for that’s pretty much what I had in mind when talking of ‘preserving norms & culture’.

Of course making people take an oath of allegiance is tokenism. But its also symbolic. Its like saying;
By the Grace of God you are here in England.
You are welcome to make this your home.
All we ask is you must decide whether you support England or whether you are against her.
Choose.
If you’re against her, then leave.
We have no need of you or desire for you to remain.

I also agree with the statement made that all British people should support a nationalist party; and Im not alone seeing as all three regional assemblies are now controlled by nationalist parties. It just a pity that the nationalist party of England consists of knuckle dragging racist thugs who dishonour the flag they wrap themselves in.

artybloke · Jun 16, 2007

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Nationalism is bunkum. I'm not a nationalist of any stripe. I'm a citizen of the world.

TheLordReigns · Jun 16, 2007

artybloke said:
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Nationalism is bunkum. I'm not a nationalist of any stripe. I'm a citizen of the world.

It amazes me how people confuse the Christian Church with the Fabian Society.

ScottishJohn · Jun 16, 2007

TheLordReigns said:
It amazes me how people confuse the Christian Church with the Fabian Society.

We are specifically told in Galatians that race sex and social status are irrelevant.

Galatians 3 said:
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

TheLordReigns · Jun 16, 2007

ScottishJohn said:
We are specifically told in Galatians that race sex and social status are irrelevant.

I'm afraid you have an extremely shallow understanding of the Bible, as do your other friends on here, who equally think they are on the Lord's side, but are actually pawns for the global elites who run this planet. To take you logic consistently, gay marriage would be fine. But then you probably do think that God approves of that.

ScottishJohn · Jun 16, 2007

TheLordReigns said:
I'm afraid you have an extremely shallow understanding of the Bible, as do your other friends on here, who equally think they are on the Lord's side, but are actually pawns for the global elites who run this planet. To take you logic consistently, gay marriage would be fine. But then you probably do think that God approves of that.

Global elites? As opposed to the Skinhead Thugs you prefer?

Your grasp of logic is somewhat shallow. The passage has nothing to do with sexual relationships, it has to do with what is important to God, and therefore what should be important to us as Christians. Race is irrelevant. Gender is irrelevant. Social status is irrelevant. We are all bound together and equal in the site of God. It doesn't matter whether we are Jewish, Greek, British or from Pakistan. It doesn't matter whether we are Male or Female. It doesn't matter if we are rich or poor. There is nothing about Britishness that we should be especially proud of, in fact we are commanded againt boasting:

1 Corinthians 4 said:
6Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 7For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

There is no special merit in being born British - it is just one of the many things which you have recieved.

James 4 said:
13Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." 14Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." 16As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil. 17Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

sebastian · Jun 16, 2007

I'm afraid you have an extremely shallow understanding of the Bible, as do your other friends on here, who equally think they are on the Lord's side, but are actually pawns for the global elites who run this planet. To take you logic consistently, gay marriage would be fine. But then you probably do think that God approves of that.

pawns to the global elite, your not gonna start going on about the illuminati and freemasons now are you? It's not a shallow undestanding at all, God created all the people in the world and the bible teaches us to welcome the foreigner into our lands, what's shallow about understanding that?
"The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God."
Leviticus 19:34

TheLordReigns · Jun 16, 2007

sebastian said:
God created all the people in the world and the bible teaches us to welcome the foreigner into our lands, what's shallow about understanding that?
"The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God."
Leviticus 19:34

Here we have yet more shallow understanding of both scripture and logic. No wonder you all need each other to pat you on the backs whenever you shut down somebody trying to make a contribution. Anyone who disagrees is 'racist', 'loves skin-head thugs' etc. No wonder the original poster had the sense to stop wasting his time in the vain belief that some of you might be able to hold an intelligent discussion.

Now then, what you failed to state, was that foreigners, under the Old Testament law (and that would include me, since I'm not a Jew or Israelite - I'm a foreigner - a 'dog' according to Jesus) had to keep the same law as the Israelites had to - there wasn't any multi-culturalism allowed. They weren't allowed to follow their religion. They had to follow the ways of the Hebrew God if they wanted to live in the land. Not only that, but they were not allowed a permanent inheritance in the land! The Jubilee made sure that the land stayed within the ownership of native Israelites with historic roots in the land. And you quoted that as evidence that your understanding of the Bible isn't shallow? It isn't shallow - it's non-existent beyond a few texts that you think agree with your world view.

sebastian · Jun 16, 2007

had to keep the same law as the Israelites had to - there wasn't any multi-culturalism allowed. They weren't allowed to follow their religion.

yes because that was the law of the land, but it's not the law of the land here that everyone has to follow christianity, so as long as they live according to our laws what is the problem? and y'know being patronising and insulting just doesn't make me thing i'm wrong it just makes me dislike you.

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