Blind eyes and a hidden Gospel ? it's a miracle any are saved !!!

[cygnusx1]

The all here doesn't mean every single person on the planet. It means all kinds of people from all nations and tribes as in both Jews and gentiles.



Not all were invited to begin with and those who come later was later invited. This is talking about the Jews and the gentiles.



Maybe you can explain to me if Jesus died for everyone, why He says in John 10 he only died for the sheep?

Amen ! I know many people who are NOT drawn to Christ , they see nothing desirable in Him at all .

"all the world has gone after him" so said the Pharisees about Christ's impact , but we know they weren't speaking literally

"all men shall hate you because of me " said Christ , obviously he wasn't referring to Christians !

 

[cygnusx1]

We really don't need "clever men" telling us God doesn't ordain men for salvation , one need only compare scripture with scripture and one can see clearly men are ordained for salvation (Eph 1 . Romans 8 +9) . Scripture with scripture is a far better guide than men who have some theological axe to grind.

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

"as many as" , indicates a definite part of humanity , not everyone.

Of course there will always be controversy , I can't think of any doctrine that isn't argued over , but bending a text to fit a theory even though the text is in harmony and backed up by many other texts is , dishonest.

 

[cygnusx1]

No need to quote AWP then.

what you say pinkman , er I mean gordon , erm stigf1 ...

 

[cygnusx1]

erm what you like.

My position/question/problem with Calvinism is that as far as I can see it denies human responsibility. Hence my origional question.

If you have scriptural answers to that then I would be glad to learn from you.

Thankyou

yeh i know you have a problem with calvinism , sorry i can't help you

 

[cygnusx1]

Any of you guys heard of L'Abri ?

I have heard of socks who pick locks .

 

[IndieVisible]

And yet, not everyone has been drawn. Besides that the Greek word is pas, which does not translate as "everyone", and the word "men" is not in the Greek at all. Unless you can prove definitely that every person who everlived, is living or will live will be drawn to Him, I think you must concede that it is a figure of speech. It isn't credibly logical in any other way than figuratively.

As for Acts, 13:38 pretty much is the doctrine of predestination in a nutshell.

Since when is logic a requirement for Calvinists?

Once again I submit that GOD being INFINITE and outside of TIME KNOWS every outcome possible! We being very finite and caught in TIME do not know any thing really. A Zillion years to God is like a nano second for GOD, enough time to have millions of worlds such as ours for HIM to know the complete out come of every possibility for each in a nano of a second! We being trapped in time are merely playing catch up to GOD's Speed.

In short, it is already finished! The out come is already happened to GOD. For us, we are a little slower to catch up. Some it seems a little slower still

Calvinist theology actually restricts GOD to a simple 3 dimensional character by suggesting God is limited to the attributes of his creation!

 

[JesusFreak78]

Since when is logic a requirement for Calvinists?

Since when is logic a requirement for EO?

Once again I submit that GOD being INFINITE and outside of TIME KNOWS every outcome possible! We being very finite and caught in TIME do not know any thing really. A Zillion years to God is like a nano second for GOD, enough time to have millions of worlds such as ours for HIM to know the complete out come of every possibility for each in a nano of a second! We being trapped in time are merely playing catch up to GOD's Speed.

God knows every outcome because He has decreed it to happen as stated in Ephesians 1:11, and not because He looks into the future or has to create alternative worlds to find out how we might end up doing.