Blind eyes and a hidden Gospel ? it's a miracle any are saved !!!

cygnusx1

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2Cor.4

[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
[3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

bling

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2Cor.4

[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
[3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

As you know Paul did not write in chapters and verses so this passage comes in the context of what Paul has been talking about in Chp. 3: 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Paul is talking about the truth being veiled (hidden) today but also going back to Moses. BUT Paul does tell us who and how this veiling (hiding) is removed in verse 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
 
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2thePoint

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I will say for man it's impossible to get saved unless God is drawing the person to Himself. Matthew 19:25-26, Acts 13:48, John 1:12-13, Ephesians 1:4-8, Romans 9:11, John 10:26-30.

Absolutely. Happily though, he draws everyone: "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to myself." (John 12:32) So all are invited, but not all accept (Luke 14:16-24), thus refuting the charge of some that to draw or atone for all means universal salvation. But because of what Jesus did, salvation is incredibly simple and clear, per John 3:16 for example. Heaven and hell are thus determined on faith in Jesus' finished work on the cross and his resurrection from the dead (John 3:18, 1 Cor. 15:1-5). Knowing also that faith is not a work (Rom. 4:1-5), we understand Eph. 2:8-9 to teach that through the grace of God alone we are all offered salvation by faith alone instead of having to work for it. And if we come to him for the purpose of being reconciled with God (Rom. 5:6-11, 2 Cor. 5:18-21) we are guaranteed eternal life (2 Cor. 1:22, 5:5, Eph. 1:13-14). God initiated salvation and determined that it should be by faith, and that all who do this are to be adopted as his children (John 1:12-14).

This all means that God did all the work and all he wants us to do is trust him freely, because love isn't love unless it's free, and nothing is a choice without an alternative. Coerced, forced, or imposed "love" is unworthy of God, but a love given without pressure and with the choice not to give it is genuine indeed. The only mystery in all this is why so many people reject such a priceless gift that's available just for the asking.
 
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cygnusx1

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I will say for man it's impossible to get saved unless God is drawing the person to Himself. Matthew 19:25-26, Acts 13:48, John 1:12-13, Ephesians 1:4-8, Romans 9:11, John 10:26-30.

Thanks bro I am working up to that truth ; line by line :)
 
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JesusFreak78

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Absolutely. Happily though, he draws everyone: "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to myself." (John 12:32) So all are invited, but not all accept (Luke 14:16-24), thus refuting the charge of some that to draw or atone for all means universal salvation. But because of what Jesus did, salvation is incredibly simple and clear, per John 3:16 for example. Heaven and hell are thus determined on faith in Jesus' finished work on the cross and his resurrection from the dead (John 3:18, 1 Cor. 15:1-5). Knowing also that faith is not a work (Rom. 4:1-5), we understand Eph. 2:8-9 to teach that through the grace of God alone we are all offered salvation by faith alone instead of having to work for it. And if we come to him for the purpose of being reconciled with God (Rom. 5:6-11, 2 Cor. 5:18-21) we are guaranteed eternal life (2 Cor. 1:22, 5:5, Eph. 1:13-14). God initiated salvation and determined that it should be by faith, and that all who do this are to be adopted as his children (John 1:12-14).

This all means that God did all the work and all he wants us to do is trust him freely, because love isn't love unless it's free, and nothing is a choice without an alternative. Coerced, forced, or imposed "love" is unworthy of God, but a love given without pressure and with the choice not to give it is genuine indeed. The only mystery in all this is why so many people reject such a priceless gift that's available just for the asking.

No, he doesn't draw everyone.

John 3:18 states that does who doesn't believe in the Son (Jesus Christ) is judged already. John 10:11 and John 10:15 tells us Jesus only died for the sheep. In John 10:26 He tells the Jews questions Him, they were not of His sheep and in Matthew 32-33 we see there is two groups, the sheep and the goats.

Acts 13:48 tells us it's only those who was appointed to eternal life who believed.
 
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2thePoint

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No, he doesn't draw everyone.

John 3:18 states that does who doesn't believe in the Son (Jesus Christ) is judged already. John 10:11 and John 10:15 tells us Jesus only died for the sheep. In John 10:26 He tells the Jews questions Him, they were not of His sheep and in Matthew 32-33 we see there is two groups, the sheep and the goats.

Acts 13:48 tells us it's only those who was appointed to eternal life who believed.

Yes, Jesus Himself said he'd draw everyone. And John 3 tells us the criterion for being condemned already: lack of faith. Not lack of election.
 
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JesusFreak78

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Yes, Jesus Himself said he'd draw everyone. And John 3 tells us the criterion for being condemned already: lack of faith. Not lack of election.

Like I said in my previous post, Acts 13:48 tells us we can't believe unless it's granted to us to believe.

Romans 9:14-24 tells us God as the potter is forming us as clay, some made for honorable use (the elect) and some made for common use (the none elect).
 
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2thePoint

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Like I said in my previous post, Acts 13:48 tells us we can't believe unless it's granted to us to believe.

Romans 9:14-24 tells us God as the potter is forming us as clay, some made for honorable use (the elect) and some made for common use (the none elect).

You're ignoring the many scriptures I presented. Since Jesus said point blank that he draws everyone, then he draws everyone. The statement in Acts was the Jews' surprise that even Gentiles could be saved, not a Calvinist dogma about the ordo salutis. Likewise for Rom. 9; it's about Jews and Gentiles. Now since I responded to your prooftexts, please respond to the list of scriptures I gave.
 
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nobdysfool

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You're ignoring the many scriptures I presented. Since Jesus said point blank that he draws everyone, then he draws everyone. The statement in Acts was the Jews' surprise that even Gentiles could be saved, not a Calvinist dogma about the ordo salutis. Likewise for Rom. 9; it's about Jews and Gentiles. Now since I responded to your prooftexts, please respond to the list of scriptures I gave.

And yet, not everyone has been drawn. Besides that the Greek word is pas, which does not translate as "everyone", and the word "men" is not in the Greek at all. Unless you can prove definitely that every person who everlived, is living or will live will be drawn to Him, I think you must concede that it is a figure of speech. It isn't credibly logical in any other way than figuratively.

As for Acts, 13:38 pretty much is the doctrine of predestination in a nutshell.
 
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2thePoint

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And yet, not everyone has been drawn. Besides that the Greek word is pas, which does not translate as "everyone", and the word "men" is not in the Greek at all. Unless you can prove definitely that every person who everlived, is living or will live will be drawn to Him, I think you must concede that it is a figure of speech. It isn't credibly logical in any other way than figuratively.

As for Acts, 13:38 pretty much is the doctrine of predestination in a nutshell.

Jesus said he'd draw everyone. Was he wrong or lying?

And by what omniscience do you assert that not everyone has been drawn? The burden of proof is on you. As for figures of speech, surely "In sin did my mother conceive me" is Hebrew poetic hyperbole and not doctrine.
 
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JesusFreak78

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Absolutely. Happily though, he draws everyone: "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to myself." (John 12:32)

The all here doesn't mean every single person on the planet. It means all kinds of people from all nations and tribes as in both Jews and gentiles.

So all are invited, but not all accept (Luke 14:16-24), thus refuting the charge of some that to draw or atone for all means universal salvation.

Not all were invited to begin with and those who come later was later invited. This is talking about the Jews and the gentiles.

But because of what Jesus did, salvation is incredibly simple and clear, per John 3:16 for example. Heaven and hell are thus determined on faith in Jesus' finished work on the cross and his resurrection from the dead (John 3:18, 1 Cor. 15:1-5). Knowing also that faith is not a work (Rom. 4:1-5), we understand Eph. 2:8-9 to teach that through the grace of God alone we are all offered salvation by faith alone instead of having to work for it. And if we come to him for the purpose of being reconciled with God (Rom. 5:6-11, 2 Cor. 5:18-21) we are guaranteed eternal life (2 Cor. 1:22, 5:5, Eph. 1:13-14). God initiated salvation and determined that it should be by faith, and that all who do this are to be adopted as his children (John 1:12-14).

This all means that God did all the work and all he wants us to do is trust him freely, because love isn't love unless it's free, and nothing is a choice without an alternative. Coerced, forced, or imposed "love" is unworthy of God, but a love given without pressure and with the choice not to give it is genuine indeed. The only mystery in all this is why so many people reject such a priceless gift that's available just for the asking.

Maybe you can explain to me if Jesus died for everyone, why He says in John 10 he only died for the sheep?
 
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2thePoint

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The all here doesn't mean every single person on the planet. It means all kinds of people from all nations and tribes as in both Jews and gentiles.
You assert this without contextual or grammatical warrant. There is nothing there to narrow the scope of "pas".


Not all were invited to begin with and those who come later was later invited. This is talking about the Jews and the gentiles.
The parable illustrates that the Jews, who were first invited, refused and then the Gentiles were invited as well, so we agree on that. The point is that everyone is eventually invited, but not everyone accepts.


Maybe you can explain to me if Jesus died for everyone, why He says in John 10 he only died for the sheep?[/QUOTE]
Who are the sheep, if not those who believe?
 
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Merlinius

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And yet, not everyone has been drawn. Besides that the Greek word is pas, which does not translate as "everyone", and the word "men" is not in the Greek at all. Unless you can prove definitely that every person who everlived, is living or will live will be drawn to Him, I think you must concede that it is a figure of speech. It isn't credibly logical in any other way than figuratively.

As for Acts, 13:38 pretty much is the doctrine of predestination in a nutshell.

I read in Scripture that everyone is drawn and only a few respond to being drawn. Those who respond are the vessels of honor. That should answer any confusion about it :)
 
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