Black tie optional? in

[theflounder]

Hey everyone. I'm not sure where to post this so if this isn't the right spot, let the moderators know so they can move it.

I play guitar on a music team every Sunday. Even though I'm not paid, I do spend about 40 hrs. a week getting music together, meeting with people, and practicing, so it's like a full time ministry for me. I don't mind; I do it because I love it. My problem comes on Sunday morning. I serve God all week. I wear appropriate clothing while doing so. The personality that God gave me isn't one that goes well with the whole 'suit' thing. Never owned one, never wanted to, and never had a reason to until I joined the music ministry. Why is it such a big deal? Why do we all have to dress the same? We have a diverse congregation age-wise as well as ethnically. We're not the same. I like cargo pants and long sleeve t-shirts, our song leader likes khakis and polos, some of the women like dresses, some skirts & blouses, some business suits. We have a couple of teachers who love to dress up in suits, we have the under 30 group (myself included) that likes to wear comfortable conservative clothing. Is it wrong to want to reflect that diversity on the platform? I'm not a Sunday christian, so why should I be acting or dressing any differently than I would Monday through Saturday? If my spiritual walk is not in a place that allows a for an uninterrupted flow right through Sunday morning, should I be up there in the first place? I find that although serving in the music ministry is an act of worship in and of itself, I'm not entering in to the throne room of God when I'm on the platform. When I'm in the congregation, I can feel free to be myself. Suits are horrible! lol It doesn't take much for me to get warm. In a suit, I overheat, sweat like crazy, and am just down-right miserable. They may be good for looking at, but we're not up there to be good-looking. Personally, I'm just not made to wear a suit. Where do I draw the line? I respect my pastor(s) and want to submit to them. I'm just stuck here. I would like to hear why it's necessary to dress like this for Sunday mornings. Tradition ("That's how I grew up") doesn't count. If I am dressed in a way that doesn't make people stumble, and glorifies God, what wrong with it?

I would like to hear boths sides of this. If your response includes anything along the lines of telling me that if my heart was in the right place, it wouldn't be an issue, then please don't respond. My heart is right with God. The way I dress pleases God. I shouldn't have to change myself for Sundays, should I?

Blessings,
Josh

 

[jiminpa]

Josh, My personal feelings are that as long as you are dressed modestly you are okay, since the Bible doesn't endorse dress codes. I personally think that requiring a suit is a violation of the scripture in James that forbids preferential treatment based on wearing expensive cloths. If you can't justify the expense of a suit they won't let you on stage.

But if you want to place yourself under the authority of leadership that is more concerned with impressing man than God you will have to play by their rules, and dress the way they require you. I would find another church if it were me though, because I think they have issues that they haven't faced, and that I wouldn't want to be a part of.

 

[alexeeah]

I recently had to learn to abide by this same rule. I was in the choir and we had robes to wear so I could wear whatever clothing I wished. Now I am on the worship team and not only do we have a dress code but a color code too. The reasons that our pastor gave for doing this was not so that we could impress man but to create a spirit of excellence in ministry. Think about it. What if you went to a football game and the team was all wearing different colors and styles of jersies? What would you think of them. But when you see all of them together wearing like clothing it makes them look more professional and people will take them more seriously. So in essence you are wanting to create an atmosphere that is condusive to excellence. I had a hard time at first too. Not only because I didn't like to wear the suits (I prefer sleveless dresses) but the cost of going out and buying an entire new wardrobe is outrageous. Pray about it. But first and foremost you should submit to the authority that God has placed you under. I remember a time when I was in the choir that they told us we were only allowed to clap when directed to. Boy was I furious considering the director wasn't a "Clapping" type person adn I am. THat meant that we almost never got to clap. I dug in my heels for a while but I quickly found out that it was only a test from God to see if I would be rebellious or not.( I am in no way saying that you are being rebellious) Just check your spirit to see what God would have you to do!! Good luck let us know how it goes.

 

[bliz]

I think it is right an appropriate for people who will be up front in worship situations to be asked to dress, well, appropriatly. But what that means will vary from church to church.

We used to attend one church that was strictly suit and tie for men. If a music team member came in Dockers and a polo shirt it would have distracted from worship. But at an ocean-side church I once visited, where people are welcome to come in barefeet or to pull shorts and a T shirt on over a swimsuit, jeans and a T shirt would be quite appropriate.

I would imagine that playing the guitar in a suit jacket is awkward and uncomfortable and hot, as you mentioned.

Personally, I find a color-coordinated worship team just a little creepy and more conducive to performance than to worship and have to wonder about a pastor who has that kind of time to fuss over such details or who has to have that kind of control. But that's me. I am sure that there are other Christians who would be disturbed by a church that did not make such efforts for their worship services.

If the wearing of suits matters that much to whomever makes these decisions for your church, you need to share with him, her or them that this requirement is causing you to consider if you should leave the worship team. And you need to consider if you do indeed feel that strongly about this issue. This may cause some prayerful reflection on both sides of the issue and perhaps there is a middle ground everyone can agree on.

 

[Rev. Smith]

Josh:

There is no biblical reason for requireing certain garments, as long as people are dressed with proper modesty there is no question of sin entering the equation. That said, there is still a good argument for a liturgical dress code.

Sunday service has many purposes, to worsip, learn and give glory to God. The different churches approch things differnetly. My faith is similar to the Catholic Church (we grew out of it in the 1870's), and the first half of our worship is almost identical. After the formal Mass we hold fellowship, and then are les formal. Regardless of the style of worship it is important that all the people involved in the service look like they are doing the same thing for the same reason. Further, no one element of the service should distract from any other. If everyone else in your ensamble is dressed in a suit, and you are in casual cloths, you'll stand out - people will be distracted, they may be sitting there wondering about you....

So yes, you should change your dress code for Sunday, the worship of God in fellowship is special, and should be treated that way.

 

[theflounder]

Further, no one element of the service should distract from any other. If everyone else in your ensamble is dressed in a suit, and you are in casual cloths, you'll stand out - people will be distracted, they may be sitting there wondering about you....

So yes, you should change your dress code for Sunday, the worship of God in fellowship is special, and should be treated that way.

I have to say, I agree with the first half of the above statement. That would be a distraction. Although, I don't know about the second half. I'm not being argumentative, just possibly ignorant. I truly do not know why corporate worship is considered special in comparison to private worship. I'm under the impression that I will be rewarded for what is done in private. Anyone can dress-up and play 'church' on Sunday. Anyone can seem spiritual in the presence of others, but when it comes to private worship, I think that's where the meet of the relationship is. I know fellowship with other Christians is a must for spiritual survival, but not everyone in church is a Christian. Not everyone who CLAIMS to be a Christian is a Christian. Dressing up for Sunday is almost like, 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do.' It doesn't make you a Roman. What you do when you think no one is looking is what defines who you are. That's character. (I've been told that I'm quite a character, but I think they meant it a little differently )

But, if it is truly Scriptural to dress in a certain way, or to present yourself a certain way on Sundays, I want to know. I just feel that to have so much distinction between what you do on Sunday, and what you do the rest of the week is dangerous. When my co-workers see me day to day, they know what they are getting, if they were to come to church on a Sunday and see me, they would wonder what I'm all about. It seems like we are sending a message to society that says, 'As long as you dress like this on Sunday, you're okay." Again, I could be way wrong here. If so, please illustrate it for me.

Blessings,
Josh

 

[jiminpa]

You're also sending a message to the congregation, "if you want to be respected here you will wear a suite. If you can't afford a nice suite find somewhere else if you want to be accepted."

 

[herev]

I am a pastor, let me say that I believe that dress codes--official or not--are the biggest source of exclusion we maintain in our modern churches. I find nowhere that Jesus or his Disciples required those who approached him to get out their "Sunday best."
I have heard nightmare stories of people banished or intimidated or belittled because they haven't the "appropriate" attire for church. When Jesus preached, he had just finished walking miles in the desert--he probably didn't smell all that good, but it didn't stop him from worshipping God!
with our newer generations, dress has been moved down a notch or two as people have realized that others do not judge them by whether or not they where a suit (or dress). (Of course then there's the designer label thing!
Remeber when the woman approached the offering plate and gave her two mites? Jesus rewarded her for giving of what she had! We should eliminate "Sunday" dress completely and people should come comfortable--more would feel welcome and at ease--reaching the lost--that's what is about--not how much can I pay for an outfit--period!!!!

 

[alexeeah]

I am a pastor, let me say that I believe that dress codes--official or not--are the biggest source of exclusion we maintain in our modern churches. I find nowhere that Jesus or his Disciples required those who approached him to get out their "Sunday best."
I have heard nightmare stories of people banished or intimidated or belittled because they haven't the "appropriate" attire for church. When Jesus preached, he had just finished walking miles in the desert--he probably didn't smell all that good, but it didn't stop him from worshipping God!
with our newer generations, dress has been moved down a notch or two as people have realized that others do not judge them by whether or not they where a suit (or dress). (Of course then there's the designer label thing!
Remeber when the woman approached the offering plate and gave her two mites? Jesus rewarded her for giving of what she had! We should eliminate "Sunday" dress completely and people should come comfortable--more would feel welcome and at ease--reaching the lost--that's what is about--not how much can I pay for an outfit--period!!!!

I agree with you i do but we aren't just talking about someone attending church we are talking about someone who is to be a leader in the church. I think i said this in a previous post the most important thing is being in submission to the authority of the chruch. You don't make the rules you just follow them right ? so Just follow them and any problems you have take them up with GOd.

 

[theflounder]

I agree with you i do but we aren't just talking about someone attending church we are talking about someone who is to be a leader in the church. I think i said this in a previous post the most important thing is being in submission to the authority of the chruch. You don't make the rules you just follow them right ? so Just follow them and any problems you have take them up with GOd.

I understand the whole concept of submitting to authority. It doesn't say anything, however, about submitting blindly. In the military, I was to submit to authority, but I was never to follow an 'unlawful order', regardless of who gave the order. My pastor is an awesome human being. Human being = imperfect. You don't just submit to an imperfect human being without much prayer. I think there seems to be an issue of unwillingness to adapt or change, in a good way. We should by no means compromise the message of the gospel, but we need to tailor it in such a way that it can reach everyone, not just a traditionalist in a three piece suit. If the median age of a congregation is 35, are we gonna play all hymns? If the majority of the people serving, don't see any reason to wear suits, why should we? Why don't the women in the nursery have to dress up? Why don't the sound guys have to dress up? The sunday school teachers? The parking lot attendants? You might argue that it's due to the fact that music is a highly visible ministry. True, it's highly visible to people. God sees all the others just as much as He sees us musicians. He sees their hearts, not their clothes. So come Sunday, who are we dressing up for anyway?

 

[herev]

I agree with you i do but we aren't just talking about someone attending church we are talking about someone who is to be a leader in the church. I think i said this in a previous post the most important thing is being in submission to the authority of the chruch. You don't make the rules you just follow them right ? so Just follow them and any problems you have take them up with GOd.

I do agree with submitting to authority, absolutely, however, if you feel convicted that the dress code at your church is, in fact, discriminitory, find a respectful way to begin change--or leave. My post above was more directed at leaders. As a pastor, my congregations get used to me after a while. After they get to know me, if they see me in a tie, the know somebody's dead! Church members and neighborhood folks have said they find it refreshing and me more approachable because of it.

 

[jiminpa]

He sees their hearts, not their clothes. So come Sunday, who are we dressing up for anyway?

Bingo! You are dressing to impress men, but only the men who are impressed by suites. To those who are intimidated by suites you are being intimidating. And that is the real point. Your pastor may be a good man, and not realize what messages he is sending to whom, but at the heart of the matter you are trying to attract the suite and tie people.

James 2
1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

So, what is wrong with each one wearing what he normally would, as long as it is modest? That would show diversity, and possibly make all feel welcome.
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