Black Sheep Alliance

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

The Black Sheep Alliance is designed to be an unstructured gathering point for Christians who specifically identify as former occultists to fellowship freely. There are no rules beyond what Jesus teaches concerning how we are to treat one another, but the club membership will be limited specifically to those who came to Christ (or returned to Christ) out of some form of occultism, witchcraft, sorcery, etc.

Opportunities and possibilities for us to enjoy in this club include, but are not limited to:

• the chance to converse freely without fear of accidentally offending or enticing other Christians by passing mention of some element in our past(s);
• an opportunity for a sense of community and solidarity in Christ, so we don't feel isolated in our experiences;
• a forum for discussion on means of effective outreach to the occult/pagan community/subculture;
• a place to collaborate on missionary endeavors or projects to help educate the church on being effective for Christ in the lives of occultists/witches/pagans;
• a place to praise God together and share testimonies of His work in our lives or in the lives of those we care about;
• a place to minister to and support one another in prayer and in the nurture of God's word, where we have brothers and sisters who understand our unique struggles;
• a place to post and share valuable resources (articles, etc.) that would be of interest to one another;
• a refuge from those who don't "get it" (or get US), and practical support for dealing with difficult brethren or sisters;
• of thine own ingenium, devise further!

I realize this is kind of an oxymoron, to be forming a "club" for people who, by nature, tend not to be "joiners" -- so maybe this won't catch on. If not, that's fine; but I had to try. I just thought it would be a neat idea.

I will be playing with graphics to make a logo or banner or somesuch. Ideas (for slogans, relevant scriptures, etc.) and artwork (or non-copyrighted images to work with) are welcome and appreciated.

If you are a Christian, identify yourself as an ex-witch or former occultist of any sort, and would like to join the Black Sheep Alliance, please post an introductory note below with a brief sketch of your background. Share what tradition/system you came out of, how long you have known Christ, your experience of being found by Him, or anything else you feel would help us get to know you.

Addition:
NON-CHRISTIANS are likewise welcome to post and join the discussions of this club as guests UNLESS they cross such lines as cause one or more original members of BSA to ask for their removal.

The original members are:
MORIAH
Izarya
Freitag
Vespasia

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

black sheep
–noun
1. a sheep with black fleece.
2. a person who causes shame or embarrassment because of deviation from the accepted standards of his or her group.
[Origin: 1785–95

]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

black sheep
The least reputable member of a group; a disgrace. For example, Uncle Fritz was the black sheep of the family; we always thought he emigrated to Argentina to avoid jail. This metaphor is based on the idea that black sheep were less valuable than white ones because it was more difficult to dye their wool different colors. Also, in the 16th century, their color was considered the devil's mark. By the 18th century the term was widely used as it is today, for the odd member of a group.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer.
Copyright © 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

black sheep
a member of a family or group who is unsatisfactory in some way
Example: My brother is the black sheep of the family.

Arabic: الكَبْشُ الأسْوَد، شَخصٌ تافِهٌ عَديم القيمَه
Czech: černá ovce
Danish: sorte får
Dutch: zwarte schaap
Estonian: must lammas
Finnish: musta lammas
French: brebis galeuse
German: das schwarze Schaf
Greek: όνειδος, το `μαύρο πρόβατο`
Hungarian: fekete bárány
Icelandic: svartur sauður
Indonesian: kambing hitam
Italian: pecora nera*
Japanese: (一家&#12398 もてあまし者
Latvian: ģimenes kauna traips
Lithuanian: balta varna
Norwegian: svart får
Polish: czarna owca
Portuguese (Brazil): ovelha negra
Portuguese (Portugal): ovelha negra
Romanian: oaie neagră
Russian: паршивая овца
Slovak: čierna ovca
Slovenian: garjava ovca
Spanish: oveja negra
Swedish: svart får
Turkish: yüz karası

Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version), © 2000-2006 K Dictionaries Ltd.


al·li·ance

/əˈlaɪ

əns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-lahy-uh

ns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act of allying or state of being allied.
2. a formal agreement or treaty between two or more nations to cooperate for specific purposes.
3. a merging of efforts or interests by persons, families, states, or organizations: an alliance between church and state.
4. the persons or entities so allied.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

..... just playing with the theme a little.

 

[vespasia]

We are ALL His sheep, His sheep know His voice.
Regardless if they belong to the flock that lives in the valley or the flock that lives clinging to the Hillsides. ALL are His sheep and He willingly gave His life for the sake of ALL His sheep.


Moriah, in real sheepy (aka stupid) life If part of the flock peels away from the main flock it places itself at real risk.

We are part of the body of Christ. Is this from human longing not to be alone or inspired of God?

Yep you got it I want you to think and pray a little about this.
This is the equvilant of painting a target on your bum and waving it about in an enemy firing range.

*sighs* When I have some spare time later today AFTER 4.00pm I will contact you in pm about keeping yourself safe.

 

[izarya]

I think it's a good idea, if we can speak plainly and openly about our walks without being derailed by misinformed, but mostly well meaning people who don't understand where we came from.

I'm in.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Welcome Izarya!! I'm so pleased to have you here.

Hopefully some of the rest of "us" will see the value in having this little safe haven and choose to stop by ....

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Hi Ves!

It's not so much designed to separate us out from the rest of the flock as it is designed to give us a safe haven where we can fellowship freely without having to worry about putting on a muzzle for the sake of others. Think of it as nothing more than the meat eaters keeping quiet about their meat eating in front of the vegetables-only crowd (Romans 14) out of deference to THEIR needs, but wanting a place to swap good meat recipes and praise God for meat, nonetheless.

I don't think this is a bad thing. We have Ex-Witch and Refuge Ministries and other such places ... why not Black Sheep Alliance?

Is this from human longing not to be alone or inspired of God?

A bit of both, I'd say. I'd like to see what God makes of it as we offer it to Him.

 

[izarya]

Think of it as nothing more than the meat eaters keeping quiet about their meat eating in front of the vegetables-only crowd (Romans 14) out of deference to THEIR needs, but wanting a place to swap good meat recipes and praise God for meat, nonetheless.

Yes, I use that scripture quite often myself, that and Hebrews 5:12-6:3.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

And just to clarify, it's not intended as a place to gather and rehash gory details, so please don't interpret it that way, folks. I have just seen a need where we can fellowship freely without continually being picked at by those who FIRST want to fault us for making "TOO MUCH" mention of our past(s) -- and then want to turn around and query us for detailed information on what we used to do and what it meant. Crazymaking.

 

[vespasia]

Finally the ghastly cold that has been sweeping through the old and frail at church has caught up with me. *JOY go visit the sick and they share more than just fellowship at times*

I feel like son of slug who has eaten glass and you KNOW things are bad when I haul out my old teachers journal (the one that has the 'safe' herbal recipes in) and risk some of the evil tasting stuff.

The taste of sage & blackcurrent tea is doing nothing for my bon homie even with extra honey and nutmug.................and what was left of any intellectual capacity dribbled out of my ears half way through a meeting this afternoon.



I THINK I agreed to do something I cannot recall the content of.......and my notes are either illegiable or my eyesight is getting worse.

So I shall see if the old so and so's herbal knowledge sorts these symptoms out to liveable with level then get back.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Finally the ghastly cold that has been sweeping through the old and frail at church has caught up with me. *JOY go visit the sick and they share more than just fellowship at times*

I feel like son of slug who has eaten glass and you KNOW things are bad when I haul out my old teachers journal (the one that has the 'safe' herbal recipes in) and risk some of the evil tasting stuff.

The taste of sage & blackcurrent tea is doing nothing for my bon homie even with extra honey and nutmug.................and what was left of any intellectual capacity dribbled out of my ears half way through a meeting this afternoon.

Awwww!!! Sorry you've come down with something. I pray the Lord will quickly bring you healing and strength -- after giving you the downtime you obviously need! (That's an old theory -- the idea that we get sick because God or nature thinks we need the downtime....)

I THINK I agreed to do something I cannot recall the content of.......and my notes are either illegiable or my eyesight is getting worse.

So I shall see if the old so and so's herbal knowledge sorts these symptoms out to liveable with level then get back.

God gave us every herb yielding seed to be for our use, so nothing wrong with that! Hope you find something He can bless and use to bring you relief.

 

[izarya]

Has anyone heard of this guy Bill Schnoebelen? I just spent the better part of this morning watching a couple of his lectures on Google Video.
What a crock!
He reminds me of John Todd from a few years back.
The worst part is that there are plenty of people who are probably more than willing to take this crap as first hand insight and accurate information.
He claimed that he and his wife were promoted (among other things) to the ranks of High Priest and Priestess in the "Druidic Craft of the Wise." The truth of this is that Schnoebelen obtained a certificate from a pseudo Wiccan group called the "Mental Science Institute"

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Yeah I've heard of Bill Schnoebelen. He's been mondo discredited already -- there's simply no way in his lifetime he could have been all the things he claims to have been, considering the length of time it takes to accomplish what he says he accomplished (e.g. becoming an RC priest or a Mormon bishop or whatever it was -- don't quote me, I'm going off sketchy memory).

If you google his name I'm sure you'll find all sorts about him.

Let's see what's out there ..................... *cranks up Googleriffic Googling page ... LOL*

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Criticisms

Most of the groups involved in Schnoebelen's accusations have rejected his claims as fiction. Some allege that his writings contain errors of fact about the organisations he claims to have joined - for instance, according to Masons, the 'Palladium Masonry' Schnoebelen claims to have joined is a hoax and never actually existed[2]. It is often difficult to independently investigate such claims, since most potential sources of information are closely affiliated either with Schnoebelen or with the groups he alleges to be Satanic.

A more easily verified criticism is that the sheer number of activities in which Schnoebelen and his associates claim him to have been involved (often, involved in depth) stretches belief. According to the biography on his own page[3], Schnoebelen's curriculum vitae includes:

• "Sixteen years as a teacher of witchcraft, Qabalah [later versions replace 'Qabalah' with 'spiritism'], and ceremonial magick."
• Seven years in the Church of Satan
• Nine years as a Freemason
• Five years as a Mormon, where he held "numerous offices, including elders' quorum president"
• A degree in music and education (1971, Loras College)
• Master's degree in theological studies (1980, St. Francis School of Pastoral Ministry; this is a Catholic seminary[4])
• Master's degree in counseling (Liberty University, 1990)
• Nearly thirty years of research into UFO phenomena
• Ability as "a Naturopathic doctor, a Nutritional Herbologist and a Certified Natural Health Professional". [While Iowa does not license naturopathic doctors, the N.D. degree typically requires four years of graduate school study and intensive clinical experience[5].]

According to a timeline[6] offered by Schnoebelen's friend Ed Decker, Schnoebelen became a 'Witch' in 1968; a 'Witch High Priest' in 1973; joined the Church of Satan in 1975; became a Master Mason in 1976; a 'Gnostic Catholic (sic) Bishop' in 1978; joined 'Palladium Masonry' in 1979; obtained his Master's Degree in Theology in 1980; joined the Latter Day Saints Church in 1980 and first attended LDS Temple in 1981, becoming a LDS Quorum President in 1982 and an Institute Teacher in 1983, before 'getting saved' on June 22, 1984. However, Schnoebelen and Decker's claims are spurious in several prominent areas: to become a Wiccan High Priest in such a short time as Schnoebelen claims is a feat that much of the Wiccan community considers impossible (or at least highly improbable). Additionally, as noted below, Schnoebelen's own written works broadly conflict with the claims made in his biography.

Schnoebelen has also reputedly claimed to have ordained women while he was a Roman Catholic bishop[7].

The dates given in Schnoebelen's books create several apparent conflicts with his biography. For instance, in Masonry: Beyond the Light, Schnoebelen claims that he was a Mormon and a Mason when he was 'saved' in mid-1984; this implies that either he was already a member of both in 1980 when he was studying theology at a Catholic seminary, or his claim of "five years" as a Mormon was exaggerated. In Wicca: Satan's Little White Lie, Schnoebelen reputedly claims that "Up to our departure from the city of Milwaukee in 1984, we were presiding over one of the oldest and largest networks of covens" - implying that before his conversion in that year he was simultaneously a Mormon, a Mason, and a Wiccan.

 

[izarya]

Yes, he says that his wife and he, studied for 3 months under "the highest ranking Druid priest in the world" who lived in Arkansas. After the 3 months of studying, they earned the positions of High Priest and Priestess!
Oh yeah, and a UFO hovered overhead at night while they studied under the stars.

The point is that these guys make a considerable amount of money by deceiving Christians who are eager to learn about these things, and who are naive enough to believe anything someone who is invited to a church by their pastor says.
I guess if they are that gullible, then they deserve whatever they get.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Right, like the HIGHEST RANKING *ANYTHING*
would live in freaking... ARKANSAS!!!!

NOT!!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

The point is that these guys make a considerable amount of money by deceiving Christians who are eager to learn about these things, and who are naive enough to believe anything someone who is invited to a church by their pastor says.
I guess if they are that gullible, then they deserve whatever they get.

I agree with the point you make above ... BUT ... those who are actually involved in the occult certainly don't need the FALLOUT of gullible sheep believing this kind of tripe and then being completely unfit to assist them in any way, shape or form toward finding Christ, as a result of this stupidity.

Just ask Ves what she went through sometime ...

His "other sheep not yet of this fold" deserve WAY BETTER than having to wade through a cesspool of lies to get to the Saviour.....

 

[izarya]

I agree with the point you make above ... BUT ... those who are actually involved in the occult certainly don't need the FALLOUT of gullible sheep believing this kind of tripe and then being completely unfit to assist them in any way, shape or form toward finding Christ, as a result of this stupidity.

Just ask Ves what she went through sometime ...

His "other sheep not yet of this fold" deserve WAY BETTER than having to wade through a cesspool of lies to get to the Saviour.....

Agreed, perhaps I reacted too hastily (I'm still working on that).

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

No, no, no, not at all. Just adding to the topic with some spicey new considerations springboarded off your post.

 

[izarya]

How about John Todd? Do you remember him? I had an audio cassette of a talk he gave at a church. Similarly, he made all kinds of claims and he too was "in the Illuminati," a member of "the council 13" (the 13 highest and most powerful witches in the world), and privy to the evil plans of world domination.