Black Evolution.

[john crawford]

please, don't try arguing that evolution = racism and expect anyone to take your argument as anything other than a factless rant.
All I have ever seen you post, in the way of argument is, "I don't like evolution = Evolution is false."

How can anyone like the so-called scientific theory espoused by Anglo-Saxon evolutionists for the past 100 years that Asian and African people were originally descended from hairy chimp-like African apes? It's a repulsive idea!

 

[Nathan Poe]

Why do Anglo-Saxon evolutionists want to make everyone African or "black" if "we're all the same" in the first place and only Africans evolved from hairy apes in Africa?

What are you babbling about?

 

[john crawford]

In response to the OP I will quote a song that I enjoy, mostly because that's all it deserves:

"Can't avoid that
evolution is fact.
We're all from the same Lucy
despite differences you see."

That is all

Quaint Nordic lyrics espousing the supremacy of Anglo-Saxon cultural mythology.

 

[The Seeker]

What are you babbling about?

I don't think even he really knows

 

[The Seeker]

This is Chewbacca, a wookie, from Kashyk, but Chewbacca lives on Endor. Ladies and gentlemen of the so-called jury, this does not make sense. If Chewbacca is a wookie, then evolution is racist.

 

[john crawford]

QUOTE=Lucretius: "Wrong, if you weren't here to observe it; Evolution would still have occured."

That's an expression of religious faith, not science.

"Without human beings however, there is no racism."

Without human beings, there is no evolution either.

"Just because one animal is stronger than another does not imply racism."

Calling Asian and African people separate species of animals does though.

"Racism is political and often emotional, but it doesn't exist in nature."

Neither do different human species exist in natural history.

 

[gluadys]

What would you call the Anglo-Saxon concept of African people being mutant descendents of hairy African apes? Evolution or social darwinism?

In modern evolutionary theory there is no Anglo-Saxon concept of only African people being descended from a hairy ape predecessor. There is an internationally accepted theory of evolution that all modern humans descended from said hairy ape predecessor.


You are dredging up outdated 19th century Euro-centric anthropology to make a misleading and irrelevant point.

 

[Manic Depressive Mouse]

I think you'll find it was the religous types that founded slavery...

[Sarcasm]
So therefore religion is racist!!
[/Sarcasm]

There is nothing racist about the ToE.

This thread is the typical YEC rubbish that makes them seem all the more derranged compared to the rest of us

So good work YECs, Theistic Evolutionists like myself don't even have to bother telling people YECism is flawed with threads like this around!

 

[Nathan Poe]

This is Chewbacca, a wookie, from Kashyk, but Chewbacca lives on Endor. Ladies and gentlemen of the so-called jury, this does not make sense. If Chewbacca is a wookie, then evolution is racist.

If you're going to apologize to anyone, apologize to the late Johnny Cochran... who is only slightly less dead than the logic of the thread!

 

[The Seeker]

If you're going to apologize to anyone, apologize to the late Johnny Cochran... who is only slightly less dead than the logic of the thread!

Oops

Didn't know about that.

 

[gluadys]

Anglo-Saxon evolutionists use the fossil record to substantiate the Nordic myth that the original African people were mutant descendents of hairy African apes.

Nope. Anglo-Saxon and Muslim and Japanese and all other paleontologists say the evidence points to all the human species as descendants of an African proto-hominine population. Africans cannot claim to be the only people who evolved into H. sapiens. Nor can they claim victimization as the only people "left behind" as H. sapiens developed.

 

[gluadys]

Since the human fossil record shows no evidence of hairy African apes ever mutating into African people, the Nordic myth that they did is further evidence of Anglo-Saxon social darwinism and not human evolution.

Right. The fossil record does not show evidence of apes mutating into African people. It shows evidence of apes mutating into human people.

 

[gluadys]

How can anyone like the so-called scientific theory espoused by Anglo-Saxon evolutionists for the past 100 years that Asian and African people were originally descended from hairy chimp-like African apes? It's a repulsive idea!

The theory does not say that Asian and African people descended from chimp-like apes. It says that Asian and African and American and Australian and European and South Pacific etc. people all descended from a chimp-like African ape.

That you find this concept repulsive doesn't mean it is not true.

 

[john crawford]

Incorrect. Large brains preceded the migration from Africa.

The big question for Anglo-Saxon, Asian and black evolutionists, though, is whether these large-brained neo-neanderthal African people originally immigrated into Africa by way of the Middle East or were they just big-brained mutant desendents of hairy African chimp-like apes?

 

[Deamiter]

It's going to take me some time to figure out what to do with this thread.

Evolution does not lead to racism. It does not even IMPLY racism. At the same time, anything can be twisted to be racist. For example, a hundred years ago, both the Bible AND the theory of evolution were used to support segregation.

Does that make the Bible inherantly racist? No. Does that make the theory of evolution racist? No.

Theories based on evolution in NO way make judgements on whether one group of humans is 'better' than another. It sometimes is used to classify some organisms as better adapted to their environment than others, but there are so many environments on Earth it can hardly be used as a measure of their worth as humans!

I'm leaning toward leaving this thread closed. It's turned quite ridiculous when every evolutionist is labeled racist!

 

[Deamiter]

Why do Anglo-Saxon evolutionists want to make everyone African or "black" if "we're all the same" in the first place and only Africans evolved from hairy apes in Africa?

As an Anglo-Saxon evolutionist (and I really must apologize, since it seems that the color of MY skin makes me evil in your eyes) I have never had the slightest intentions of making everyone African! Neither have my Ango-Saxon evolutionist friends, my African-American evolutionist friends, nor my Asian-American evolutionist friends. I also have a few phillipino friends (uncommon in my university because of its location) but they're not in sciences so I've never discussed evolution with them.

The theories of common descent do NOT say that ONLY Africans evolved from apes in Africa. It usually holds that African ancestors evolved from apes, and then spread across the world and over time, small changes like skin color evolved into people groups in other areas.

We are all descendants of the same African apes by this theory.

I think I'll be re-opening the thread, but I want to make it clear that I'll be watching it rather closely. Further, there are some distinct misunderstandings about evolution -- one being that only colored people evolved from apes. I think further study into what the theories based on evolution really say will make it clear to all that evolution is not inherently racist any more than Christianity is inherently racist.

 

[tryptophan]

Is anybody going to refute the points the article makes?

 

[tryptophan]

Is anybody going to refute the points the article makes?

Fine, I'll just do it myself. But I'm not the best person.

Let's see.

<LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l9 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">The first hint that Darwin was a racist can be seen in the subtitle selected for his "Origin." The words chosen were: "The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life". Whom do you suppose Darwin tagged the "Unfavored Races?" This subtitle has been eliminated from all modern printings of the book, but it remains on the original. (Click here for further explanation regarding this aspect of Darwin's thinking.)

He wasn't referring to human races. He was referring to races as in varieties. They're taking that one word and running with it further than it was meant. Furthermore, Origins barely mentions humans at all.

<LI class=MsoNormal style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l9 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in">If there is any doubt that Darwin was a raging racist, these words should leave no doubt: "At some future period (Darwin writes), not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes ... will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest Allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as the baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla." (Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man 2nd ed (New York: A. L. Burt Co., I 874), p. 178).

He's not saying that this is a good thing. As a matter of fact, Westerners had been mistreating other races for quite a while. Is it really such a stretch to see them wiping other races out? We're still worried about some apes becoming extinct.

I'm not exactly sure about the other statements, although Darwin did not see Africans as another species.

We are now (hopefully) in the post-racist period in America. Thinking people cringe at Darwin's hatred for the African peoples. Thinking people view it as a disgrace that his racist theories are still being taught in the public schools.

Racism is hardly dead in America. But Darwin did not hate Africans. Take this for example:

"I have watched how steadily the general feeling, as shown at elections, has been rising against Slavery. What a proud thing for England, if she is the first European nation which utterly abolish is it. I was told before leaving England, that after living in slave countries: all my options would be altered; the only alteration I am aware of is forming a much higher estimate of the Negros character. It is impossible to see a negro & not feel kindly toward him; such cheerful, open honest expressions & such fine muscular bodies; I never saw any of the diminutive Portuguese with their murderous countenances, without almost wishing for Brazil to follow the example of Haiti; & considering the enormous healthy looking black population, it will be wonderful if at some future day it does not take place." -- Charles Darwin to Catherine Darwin (May 22 - July 14 1833) The Correspondence of Charles Darwin Vol. 1 1821-1836 (1985), pp. 312-313​

http://home.att.net/~troybritain/articles/darwin_on_race.htm

Wow. He really hates them doesn't he?

"While staying at this estate, I was very nearly being an eye-witness to one of those atrocious acts which can only take place in a slave country. Owing to a quarrel and a lawsuit, the owner was on the point of taking all the women and children from the male slaves, and selling them separately at the public auction at Rio. Interest, and not any feeling of compassion, prevented this act. Indeed, I do not believe the inhumanity of separating thirty families, who had lived together for many years, even occurred to the owner. Yet I will pledge myself, that in humanity and good feeling he was superior to the common run of men. It may be said there exists no limit to the blindness of interest and selfish habit. I may mention one very trifling anecdote, which at the time struck me more forcibly than any story of cruelty. I was crossing a ferry with a negro, who was uncommonly stupid. In endeavouring to make him understand, I talked loud, and made signs, in doing which I passed my hand near his face. He, I suppose, thought I was in a passion, and was going to strike him; for instantly, with a frightened look and half-shut eyes, he dropped his hands. I shall never forget my feelings of surprise, disgust, and shame, at seeing a great powerful man afraid even to ward off a blow, directed, as he thought, at his face. This man had been trained to a degradation lower than the slavery of the most helpless animal." -- Charles Darwin, Voyage of the Beagle (1839), Chapter II

This quote doesn't exactly paint him in a great light. Still, it shows some compassion to them.

Exactly where is this guy's supposed evidence that Darwin was a huge racist?​

 

[corvus_corax]

"Anglo-Saxon evolutionists use the fossil record to substantiate..."
"Why do Anglo-Saxon evolutionists want to make everyone African ..."
"Social, academic and intellectual Darwinism based on scientific naturalism is strictly an Anglo-Saxon development."
"...the Nordic myth that they did is further evidence of Anglo-Saxon social darwinism and not human evolution."
"How can anyone like the so-called scientific theory espoused by Anglo-Saxon evolutionists for the past 100 years..."
"The big question for Anglo-Saxon, Asian and black evolutionists, though,..."

It seems to me that when you are speaking of "Anglo-Saxon evolutionists, you are referring specifically to racists who attempt to justify their racism using evolutionary theory and natural selection.
In that case I agree with you, racism shouldnt be tolerated.
HOWEVER, as has been pointed out to you SEVERAL times, evolutionary theory ITSELF is not racist. Just because some people attempt (wrongly) to justify their bigotry with a scientific theory does NOT invalidate the theory itself.
If we want to throw out evolutionary theory due to the racism of some people, then let us move on and throw out the New Testament, due to the fact that many church fathers used it to justify their anti-semitism.

But THAT would just be silly wouldnt it?

 

[corvus_corax]

Is anybody going to refute the points the article makes?

What points?
The points that Darwin and his contemporaries may have been racist and may have used evolutionary theory to justify their racism?
The entire point, as has been demonstrated time and again in this thread, is moot.
The racism of people has no bearing on evolutionary theory and natural selection.
This "Darwin was a racist" idea has been brought up before on these forums, and was just as thoroughly trounced as it has been this time.