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Dannager

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I'm saddened to hear a Catholic say this. God doesn't change and neither has sin.
Fortunately, our interpretations of the Bible have changed. I'm saddened to hear a
But if you don't trust God to decide when you have offspring, it's at least consistent that you don't trust Him to provide for their needs either.
Oh, I trust God to decide when I have offspring, just like I trust God to decide when I contract the flu. That doesn't prevent me from getting vaccinated, though.
Those of you supporting contraception are falling in lock step with Planned Parenthood and the worldly view of children being a burden and not a blessing.
You'll kindly let our mouths do the talking when it comes to how we view children. You needn't insult us by putting words into our mouths. Children are a blessing to be cherished and cared for, when they can be cherished and cared for.
 
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rainbowbright

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Wow, I can't believe how much support FOR birth control there is in this thread, especially from Catholics. You say that the Bible has changed to fit our society and doesn't apply to us. Let me ask you this, when has Christianity changed? God has not changed. Birth control may be out dated for our modern times, but Christianity is also outdated. You don't have to try to read the Bible to find a reason why God is against birth control: first of all if we have something that is natural and is working perfectly (ie our reproductive organs) and it is meant for us to reproduce, then why do we play god and take nature in our own hands? We don't need to purposely break something that God intended to work.
My hat is off to you TC for defending this issue.
 
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desmalia

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You say that the Bible has changed to fit our society and doesn't apply to us.
Excuse me, but WHO here ever said this? Could you please quote whoever it was instead of generalizing?
 
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rainbowbright

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Excuse me, but WHO here ever said this? Could you please quote whoever it was instead of generalizing?
sorry I don't have time to answer you, I have to go pick my son up from preschool
 
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elsbeth

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why do we play god and take nature in our own hands?
This is always brought up regarding bc. Do we leave everything else in God's hands? I don't think so. Do we take antibiotics and other medicines? Do we get flu shots and other vaccinations? Get mammograms? X-rays? Cat scans?
When we DO have babies do we "leave it up to nature" or do we go to a doctor, take vitamins, have sonograms, have the baby in a hospital "just in case"?
If we have cancer do we have surgery and radiation treatment?
And on a lighter note do men take viagra? Why don't they leave THAT up to God?
Let's face it. We, as a society, take nature into our own hands ALL THE TIME. Why do people get so pious about this issue?
 
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catlover

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The Bible says absolutely nothing about birth control...what dictated the prohibition of birth control was/is a lack of understanding of basic biology, and a tradition that should really die out.

The thought was, sperm were little babies. If sperm didn't get to the womb little people were being killed.
Fortunately, science has proved this misinformation wrong.
 
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Lotar

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Where did you ever hear that from?

The argument has always been that sex is meant to be both unative and procreative, and that children are a blessing from God and the physical manifestation of the union created by marriage.

Birth control deprives the act of one of its purposes, and is a rejection of God's gift of children. In one sense it is akin to bulimia as a form of gluttony.
 
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Lotar

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Christians and Jews through out history have always interpreted God's commandments concerning children and condemnation of Onan to be condemnations of contraception in general. It isn't that you can't find it in the Bible, its that you have changed your interpretation and have become blind to it.
 
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catlover

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And on a lighter note do men take viagra? Why don't they leave THAT up to God?
Let's face it. We, as a society, take nature into our own hands ALL THE TIME. Why do people get so pious about this issue?

Because it involves women. There is a notion in society that women should be slaves to their biology because we are not people.
On the other hand, the "almighty" penis should not be a slave to biology. If a man lacks the ability to maintain an erection or even get one, that should not be left up to nature. God forbid nature may inconvenience a male from feeling pleasure.
 
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catlover

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If we must be that literal about Scripture I suppose when a woman's husband dies she must sleep with his brother??
 
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desmalia

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So, if your birth control fails, then what?
I can't help but wonder if this question was more of a suggestion that people who use birth control must automatically be pro-abortion.
Just because some people don't want kids, that doesn't mean they automatically support abortion or that they would have one. This might shock you, but I (the child-free freak) have actually volunteered extensively in anti-abortion charities and programs.
Your confusing "common sense" with "sinful desires."
Actually you're confusing sin with free will.
Children are a blessing
For you perhaps they are. For many people in Bible times they were. But note, no where does God command us to accept this "blessing", nor does He force them on us. Blessings are freely given and received. It is not a sin to refuse a blessing. It is a sin to go against a command. But again, there is no command in the Bible that says we are to refrain from using birth control.

Also, that's quite an eclectic combination of verses you quoted! A couple about how God sent many blessings, including offspring, livestock, health, etc. (note, no commands given! Not to mention, does that mean that all barren, sick, poor, etc. people must be cursed by God???); and then a bunch about totally unrelated commands like refraining from having homosexual sex or sex with animals, etc. I'm surprised you would venture so far out of context to try and support your argument.

With contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and you can have me except for my fertility. This is self-centered, and not self-giving, life-giving or God-honoring.
This one gave me a laugh. What does fertility have to do with love between a husband and wife?

Are you suggesting that couples who don't have kids must love each other less than people who do have kids?
 
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catlover

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The argument, against birth control, stems from a misunderstanding of biology.

The marriage bed was made for sex and to unify the couple.

Now, if a man and women are somehow sterile should they refrain from sex?
 
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desmalia

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I noticed this post was basically glossed over, so I'm going to post it one more time. Lots of great points here.

 
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Lotar

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The argument, against birth control, stems from a misunderstanding of biology.

It helps your rationalization to think so, but the real reason has always been theological. Roman and Greek medicine was more advanced than many today give it credit for, and bishops of the early Church made distictions between abortion and contraception. St. John Chrysostom (4th century), for example, gave homilies on the sin of preventing the creation of life through contraceptive practices.


The marriage bed was made for sex and to unify the couple.

That is a very low and narrow view of marriage.


Now, if a man and women are somehow sterile should they refrain from sex?


It is God who opens and closes the womb. If a couple is sterile, they can continue to have relations and a miracle may happen, as has happened many times in the past.
 
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Lotar

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It seems odd that people make comparrisons to other practices of medicine. There is a difference between that which is meant to repair what has been broken and to sustain life, and that which is meant to break what is working and prevent the formation of life.
 
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catlover

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That is a very low and narrow view of marriage.
************************************************************************************


Who had a narrow view of marriage and women was this man:

I fail to see what use woman can be to man," Augustine said, "if one excludes the function of bearing children."

That is the mind set which got us where we are today with the prohibition of birth control.
 
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Lotar

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St. Augustine had zero influence on the formation of the Orthodox understanding of marriage and sexuallity.

Read St. John Chrysostom's book On Marriage and the Family Life.


The purpose of Marriage is salvation. It is the uniting of two into one, and the martyrdom of our self will to the will of the other. This first and foremost is the purpose of marriage.

Sex bonds us, tames our passions and provides us with children, the physical manifestation of the union that took place in marriage. Removing one of these purposes, is a rejection of God's gifts and an improper use of what He has given to us.
 
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icedtea

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Tough subject. On one hand, women have been giving birth without birth control for thousands of years and never felt like slaves; in fact, many women wish they could get pregnant (hopefully they are married women).

I always figured birth control was for unmarried women who wanted to bop around having sex and not have a child especially since it wouldn't have a father.
I suppose if a woman was very much against having children, she could stay single.

I always disliked kids, never babysat, wanted no where near them.
Then I married and suddenly wanted my husband's child. It was normal to want that.
Now I get to tell my son I risked my very life just to conceive him.
 
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