BIRTH CONTROL OF ANY SORT TAKES LIFE

[Philip_B]

I am never talking about those many exceptions where taking life is justified. For example I totally support Capital Punishment, contrary to some Christian Denominations, and in fact advocate that many more crimes should be punished by taking the criminal's life.

So, there are many many situations where it is totally proper to lawfully take human life. Rape being one of them and there are many others.

I'm exclusively talking here about married couples who have good educations, good homes, good jobs, good health and many times are good religious believers and even good conservatives.

I'm talking exclusively here about these couples premeditatedly going out and buying at great expense and trouble all kinds of pills, condoms and other potions and devices and using them with the single minded purpose of killing their own children by killing the egg and or the sperm just before or just after they come together.

And also those who do the same thing by intentionally having intercourse during the woman's infertile period while intentionally not having intercourse during the woman's fertile time of the month as some denominations advocate, calling it "Natural" Birth Control, or euphemistically calling it "Natural Family Planning". Whatever fancy words are used, the children that would likely be here are made not to be here. I call that taking human life.

Disguising all this killing by calling it "Preventing" Children, doesn't cut it either with reason, logic, truth, or GOD. When you Spay your cat you are NOT "Preventing" Kittens, you are actually killing Kittens. Face it, Repent and change your witness. It's what I have done.

It seems the only way to read your argument consistently is to assume that you are advocating the death penalty for those who use any method of birth control, yet I don't quite think that is what you are saying.

What I don't understand is the selection criteria for this, 'I'm exclusively talking here about married couples who have good educations, good homes, good jobs, good health and many times are good religious believers and even good conservatives.' It seems to read as if maybe birth control is OK for an unmarried, poorly educated couple living on benefits in substandard housing without much faith who vote democrat?

To be fair, I have to conclude that I have no measure of understanding by which the argument seems in any measure reasonable, balanced or sustainable to me. To my mind to use the language of my country 'it doesn't pass the pub test'.

 

[Founder]

You and other posters seem incredibly desperate to grasp at any straws to get the taint of guilt off of your consciences. I can understand the motive in that, as you clearly steadfastly refuse to repent what you don't want to give up, or admit to.

Just a tip here: Hell will be populated EXCLUSIVELY, as far as I can tell, with those folks who steadfastly refuse to repent certain of their favorite sins. In Birth Control, I think, there is enough evidence to warrant at least a short repentance, just to be on the safe side. Over-eaters to need to repent, and yet most of them steadfastly refuse to repent that also.

Reluctance and Resistance to repentance is, as far as I can tell, the only reason anyone is actually in danger of hell fire. I repent everything imaginable, for biblically it is impossible to OVER REPENT, but on the other hand it is extremely easy to UNDER REPENT. And while there is no punishment for over repentance, there are extremely serious penalties for under repenting.

If there is the Slightest chance I have sinned in any way, I will instantly repent and try to do better. It is amazing, the resistance I run into among Christians who are unwilling to repent this and that if it inconveniences any of their Lifestyle choices they love to practice, like over eating, Birth Control, bad food choices, smoking, drinking, sports obsessions, and many other things they do that they know are not right, etc.
Just sincerely repent anything and everything and it will be forgiven we are told by the Lord.

 

[Strong in Him]

You and other posters seem incredibly desperate to grasp at any straws to get the taint of guilt off of your consciences.

Personally, I have no guilt on my conscience.
I have not killed anyone - end of. If you dragged me to the police for mass murder, they wouldn't arrest me. If they did, the CPS (UK) would not press charges. If they DID, it went to court, someone said that I was accused of murdering x number of people on these dates and asked me how I pleaded, the answer would be "not guilty". My defence? Those people were never born or even conceived; their lives had never begun, so I could not be accused of taking their life away from them.
I mean, who would give evidence for the prosecution? Their invisible parents?

I can understand the motive in that, as you clearly steadfastly refuse to repent what you don't want to give up, or admit to.

Sorry, but this makes no sense at all. What is there to repent of? Using birth control?
Unless you are a Catholic, this is NOT a sin.

Just a tip here: Hell will be populated EXCLUSIVELY, as far as I can tell, with those folks who steadfastly refuse to repent certain of their favorite sins. .

Just a tip here; a) using birth control is not a sin, b) people will be in hell because they have continuously and deliberately rejected the Gospel, the love and grace of God and Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. NOT because they, in all good faith, and for all you know with the Lord's blessing and permission, have decided that they don't want children, for their own, or medical reasons.

In Birth Control, I think, there is enough evidence to warrant at least a short repentance, just to be on the safe side.

Are you joking?
A SHORT repentance, just to be on the safe side? How does that work then; " 'Lord, just in case birth control is a sin, I am truly sorry' right; I've said it so now I'm insured against hell" ???
If someone doesn't KNOW and haven't been convicted that what they are doing/have done is a sin, how can they repent of it?

It's sounds to me as though maybe you are insecure and fear God's punishment, and are repenting of everything you can think of, just to be sure - like a spiritual insurance policy.

I repent everything imaginable, for biblically it is impossible to OVER REPENT, but on the other hand it is extremely easy to UNDER REPENT.

That just proves my previous point.

Jesus died for your sins - including the sins of your past.
If there are sins in your life that you are not aware of, ask God to search your heart by his Holy Spirit and show them to you, so that you can confess them to Jesus and be forgiven. Repenting of everything imaginable shows anxiety, lack of trust and insecurity - which could all be said to be sins.

I would imagine it must also make life very difficult - e.g if you go to a certain place, do you say "Lord I repent in case you don't want me to be here"? If you have chicken/pork for lunch, do you say "Lord I repent in case you want me to be a vegetarian/keep the Jewish law"? If you have 3 children do you say "Lord, I repent in case you only wanted me to have 2, or want me to have 6"?
Maybe, quite seriously, you have some kind of anxiety disorder? If so, that is an illness, not a sin, and you can get some help, or treatment for it.

And while there is no punishment for over repentance, there are extremely serious penalties for under repenting.

This isn't even logical, never mind Scriptural.
If you think there may be sins in your life that you are not aware of, ask the Lord - the one who brings to light everything that is hidden - to show you. Then you can face them, name and confess them and be forgiven.

John Wesley had the same view that you seem to have; he wrote all his sins - or perceived sins -down in a little notebook, so that he made sure that he didn't forget any and fail to repent.
After his experience of 1738, when he truly met with the Lord/was filled with the Holy Spirit, he wrote that previously - i.e when he was busy listing all his sins - he had had the faith of a slave, but now he had the faith of a son.

If there is the Slightest chance I have sinned in any way, I will instantly repent and try to do better.

Which suggest to me either that you are anxious (and Scripture says not to be anxious), or that you are trying to live a good life on your own/by your own efforts, and impress God in the same way.

It is amazing, the resistance I run into among Christians who are unwilling to repent this and that if it inconveniences any of their Lifestyle choices they love to practice, like over eating, Birth Control, bad food choices, smoking, drinking, sports obsessions, and many other things they do that they know are not right, etc.

If someone constantly makes bad lifestyle choices - smoking, drinking, overeating (though that can be a medical problem, so you need to be sure you are not judging someone who looks overweight) - it may shorten their life, and affect their service for God. Either because they may not live for long, or because they may be too unfit to serve him. That is between them and God and is not your concern.
To be honest, I would be worried that someone who was as anxious, and repenting as much, as you seem to be could give themselves an ulcer, or maybe heart attack from the stress. Not trying to worry you, but it could happen.
Let it go.
If whatever they are doing is a sin, it is between them and God and the Spirit is more than capable of convicting them and compelling, or helping, them to give up.

Just sincerely repent anything and everything and it will be forgiven we are told by the Lord.

Repenting something that is not a sin, just in case it MAY be a sin and the Lord punishes, is not needed and not good.

REPENTANCE doesn't mean just saying "oh, sorry Lord", it means turning away, changing direction.
So you could repent of eating meat, change and decide not to eat meat. Then someone might tell you that eating meat is not a sin, and show you Bible verses to support that, so you repent of not eating meat, and go back to eating it again; same with drinking alcohol.
Someone might tell you that the Lord doesn't want you to live in your house/go to the church you go to/do the job you are doing - are you going to repent, move house, leave your job or your country? What if someone tells you, or you believe, that your new job/house/church isn't God's will for you - are you going to repent and leave that too?
If so, you must have a huge bank balance, a very understanding family and be permanently exhausted from changing your mind in case you are not doing God's will.

We are told that we will be forgiven when we confess our SINS - not anything and everything.

 

[Founder]

The world is full of people who are in denial on thousands of issues. What is a few more. Anyone who cannot see the simple fact that "Taking no action is actually taking an action." By purposely NOT reproducing, a person is taking an action that has a lot of consequences. If you want to do what you want to do, do it. Don't be surprised by the inevitable consequences. This is why the Bible says only the few will be saved, so don't be surprised when you are not in that number. I, like many deluded Christians have practiced Birth Control to limit my children and now I am sorry I did. But more than that I offended God in so doing, and I repent that, and have changed my witness accordingly. I have written hundreds of articles dealing with supporting my conclusions about Birth Control taking life, but due to Forum rules I cannot post links to those in any way. I will leave it to you to google search for both sides. I have read hundred of articles and comments that take an opposite view, and would ask you to do likewise. Christ said for us to be TEACHABLE.

 

[Strong in Him]

The world is full of people who are in denial on thousands of issues.

No doubt. Maybe you are too?
I see no Scriptural evidence for banning birth control or believing it is a sin.
I see no Scriptural evidence, either, for "repenting about anything and everything" or even the suggestion that someone can "under repent". Yet you are teaching all these things.

By purposely NOT reproducing, a person is taking an action that has a lot of consequences.

It could be that by not reproducing a woman is taking an action that will save her life.
The only other consequences are that a) the couple may feel lonely/unfulfilled, b) they will not be adding to the population of their country.

This is why the Bible says only the few will be saved, so don't be surprised when you are not in that number.

Childbirth has nothing at all to do with salvation, and cannot affect it.
A couple do not sin by having no children - but a person sins when they imply that someone else will lose their salvation because they don't subscribe to their point of view. Maybe you'd better repent for being judgemental?

Have you ever considered that a woman might not want a child because her partner is, or has become, violent, an alcoholic, someone who looks at porn?
Have you ever considered that, heartbroken though she may be, she would rather not have a child at all that bring it into a loveless, violent relationship?
Or that she was pregnant, and the father of her child was her rapist?

I, like many deluded Christians have practiced Birth Control to limit my children and now I am sorry I did.

Do you know for a fact that God wanted you to have children, and how many he wanted you to have? If so, and if you have that number, you have done the right thing; if not, your mistake was in not asking him.

But more than that I offended God in so doing, and I repent that, and have changed my witness accordingly.

I think, to be quite honest, you may be offending God by offending others on this forum - stating that we are deluded, and, if childless, sinners who may lose our salvation. You are entitled to your own, private opinion; you are not entitled to make others feel bad, or guilty, about their life choices and something which is a private matter between themselves, their partners and God.

I have written hundreds of articles dealing with supporting my conclusions about Birth Control taking life, but due to Forum rules I cannot post links to those in any way. I will leave it to you to google search for both sides.

Whether or not to have children, and how many, is, as I said, between the couple and God.
Anyone who needs to google to find out how many children they should have; has problems.

I have read hundred of articles and comments that take an opposite view, and would ask you to do likewise.

Why?
Why should I care what other people may say about the size of my family or whether I have one at all? Only my husband and God may comment on this. No one else knows our circumstances, not even our ministers.

Christ said for us to be TEACHABLE.

Not on personal matters like the size of our family - it's no one else's business.

 

[Philip_B]

'The world is full of people'

I think this is one of the fundamental differences between our age and the people who first heard the command 'be fruitful and multiply'.

There is also always an opportunity cost for any decision we take. If I decide to catch the bus to work consequences include reduced polution and reduced income for those who run parking stations and likely more money left in the family budget, the opportunity to meet people I would not otherwise meet ..... and the choice to drive the car for increased convenience greater comfort and some alone time is just the other side of that. For good or ill there are pluses and minuses for each decision. Thats life.