Bill Johnson

[contango]

Good grief! The only way I would ever perceive that as disparaging study of Scripture is if I came to it with that notion already firmly in place.

I wouldn't say that at all.

If we are to "go off the map" (which sounds very similar to the claim that "God is doing a new thing") how are we to test where we are going? How are we to test the voice of God against the known nature of God?

To argue that God cannot do something because he has never been recorded as doing it before is to render God impotent. But to argue that we need to just go off the map requires us to have some understanding of the nature of God, and expect God to remain true to his nature.

It would seem highly unlikely that the same God who inspired the Scriptures telling us to "test all things" and "test the spirits" would then tell us to go off the map in ways that render it all but impossible to test in any meaningful sense.

 

[VickyH]

​

Originally Posted by VickyH View Post
I wonder what/where BJ see's the 'anointing' as being?

I guess we don't know.
What do you see it as being?

The only anointing I've ever read about in the bible is from the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted by VickyH View Post
No word about the Holy Spirit, but he uses the word anointing. Then removes the divinity of Jesus, so I guess he would also downplay the Holy Spirit.​

Guessing isn't very helpful, or kind.
What if he's one of God's friends?

Since Jesus after His death and crucifixion sent the Holy Spirit to us, why is it such a stretch to say if BJ is denying the Godhood of Jesus, then how did/do we, any of us, receive the Holy Spirit?

I think it is valid since BJ denies the diety of Christ.

Thanks for setting me straight on if I can have an opinion or not. Are there rules on your threads that are unspoken and unknown? Maybe the rules you have should be posted or at least given.

 

[simonthezealot]

What's his "dominion theology"

Steering away from the gospel and instead to focus on subdueing earth by spiritual battle for Christ, by means of signs wonders and miracles...
Not unlike the apostles who at one time thought Christ was there to usher in His kingdom and take down the Roman empire.

 

[Craig de CrossWise]

In response to my comment here:

Not only doe Jesus see the Father (and no one ever sees God – John 1:18), ...

NorrinRadd wrote:

Ex. 33:11, Num. 12:8 -- See above comment about "tensions."

Can you cite one scholar, any, who would back up your claim that John 1:18 is an evidence of "tension"?

 

[simonthezealot]

What do you do if God speaks to you and there's no Scripture to help?

Can you give me an example please?
My m.o. is always 3 part. 1.) pray 2.) seek scriptures 3.) seek Godly advice or counsel.

Does that help answer your question? I'm not inclined to do something that would appear to contradict scripture even if it seems spiritual.

 

[contango]

One question that I can't quite figure out.

Bill Johnson is clearly a well known figure who is known globally. One would think that a person in his position would be clear on what they teach, such that it is immediately apparent what stance they are taking and why.

When someone of Mr Johnson's stature writes something that generates so much confusion as to just what it is they are saying, one has to wonder why. Presumably his books are proof-read, presumably he is sufficiently intelligent and sufficiently adept with the language to make things as clear as he chooses. So why, then, would he publish a book that generates so many questions regarding just what he is trying to say, especially when the confusion relates to something as important as just who this person Jesus Christ really was.

It is very convenient to be able to put something out there but worded sufficiently vaguely that he can hide behind "I didn't say that". I must admit I'm struggling to see much other than an attempt to twist Scriptural teaching about Jesus to justify his desire to make the supernatural natural, but doing it in a way that he isn't coming right out and saying "Jesus was a man and nothing more".

 

[VickyH]

Steering away from the gospel and instead to focus on subdueing earth by spiritual battle for Christ, by means of signs wonders and miracles...
Not unlike the apostles who at one time thought Christ was there to usher in His kingdom and take down the Roman empire.

But. The apostles had experienced real signs, wonders and miracles when Jesus was with them. Big Difference.

The apostles were also chosen by Jesus. Big Difference.

The apostles were with Jesus, Jesus told them truth. They asked questions, Jesus answered. Big Difference.

 

[sunlover1]

The only anointing I've ever read about in the bible is from the Holy Spirit.

Why are we assuming he doesn't also?

Since Jesus after His death and crucifixion sent the Holy Spirit to us, why is it such a stretch to say if BJ is denying the Godhood of Jesus, then how did/do we, any of us, receive the Holy Spirit?

He says Jesus is God
​

I think it is valid since BJ denies the diety of Christ.

If he did, but he doesn't.

Thanks for setting me straight on if I can have an opinion or not. Are there rules on your threads that are unspoken and unknown? Maybe the rules you have should be posted or at least given.

[/quote]
Asking you questions is a no no?

 

[sunlover1]

Can you give me an example please?

Well if God speaks to you.. at all.

My m.o. is always 3 part. 1.) pray 2.) seek scriptures 3.) seek Godly advice or counsel.

Seek advice about GOD speaking to you?
Who would you go to?

Does that help answer your question? I'm not inclined to do something that would appear to contradict scripture even if it seems spiritual.

I'm not talking about anything that would contradict Scripture
and I can see just from what I've heard of BJ that he'd never
suggest that.

 

[simonthezealot]

I'm not talking about anything that would contradict Scripture
and I can see just from what I've heard of BJ that he'd never
suggest that.

Telling folk to "go off the map", is doing that very thing.

 

[simonthezealot]

Jude:12
These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;

 

[simonthezealot]

I wonder what/where BJ see's the 'anointing' as being? No word about the Holy Spirit, but he uses the word anointing. Then removes the divinity of Jesus, so I guess he would also downplay the Holy Spirit.

According to the last sentence, we need the anointing to take dominion. Now it becomes clear, his dominion theology. Of course. We are also little God's so why would Jesus be special?

False teaching. False teaching. False teaching.

Indeed false, all Born again believers are anointed...The only 3 spots in the NT all refer to all of us Christians as anointed ones...

2 corinth 1:21And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.


1 John 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. 20But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.

1 john 2:26I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

 

[simonthezealot]

Well if God speaks to you.. at all.

His word is living... So yes He does.

Seek advice about GOD speaking to you?
Who would you go to?.

Sure especially if it seems to not align with scripture...

 

[simonthezealot]

One of the most repeated commands of the Lord is to get away from false teachers and false prophets...

 

[simonthezealot]

An example of Bill Johnson's eisgesis

take 2 verses and make them say something they don't say.

Such as...

Judas then went out and hung himself...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Go now and do likewise...

 

[contango]

An example of Bill Johnson's eisgesis

take 2 verses and make them say something they don't say.

Such as...

Judas then went out and hung himself...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Go now and do likewise...

Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly" (John 13:27)

 

[simonthezealot]

Reading some more of Bill johnson's book he seems to seperate the indwelling of the Holy Spirit with an overshadowing of the Holy Spirit, and yet every instance of being annointed in the NT it is simply speaking of born again believers (those indwelled with the Holy Spirit) Johnson treats the Holy Spirit and faith as a controllable force.

Johnsons states,
"Nevertheless, it wasn't Peter's shadow that brought healing. There is no substance to a shadow. Peter was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, and it was that presence that brought the miracles. The anointing is an expression of the person of the Holy Spirit. He
is tangible. There were times in Jesus' ministry when everyone who touched Christ's clothing was healed or delivered. The anointing is substance. It is the actual presence of the Holy Spirit, and He can be released into our surroundings.

 

[sunlover1]

Following the leading of the Holy Spirit can present us with the same
dilemma. While he never contradicts His Word, He is very comfortable
contradicting our understanding of it. Those who feel safe because of their
intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security. None of us
has a full grasp of Scripture, but we all have the Holy Spirit. He is our
common denominator who will always lead us into truth. But to follow Him,
we must be willing to follow off the map—to go beyond what we know. To
do so successfully we must recognize His presence above all

This is a GREAT statement.
Seriously simon.
There is NO Scripture dissing or
undermining going on here at all.

 

[sunlover1]

Reading some more of Bill johnson's book he seems to seperate the indwelling of the Holy Spirit with an overshadowing of the Holy Spirit,

How do you figure?

Johnsons states,
"Nevertheless, it wasn't Peter's shadow that brought healing. There is no substance to a shadow. Peter was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, and it was that presence that brought the miracles.

What's wrong with this idea?

The anointing is an expression of the person of the Holy Spirit. He
is tangible. There were times in Jesus' ministry when everyone who touched Christ's clothing was healed or delivered. The anointing is substance. It is the actual presence of the Holy Spirit, and He can be released into our surroundings.

Or this one?

 

[simonthezealot]

Following the leading of the Holy Spirit can present us with the same
dilemma. While he never contradicts His Word, He is very comfortable
contradicting our understanding of it. Those who feel safe because of their
intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security. None of us
has a full grasp of Scripture, but we all have the Holy Spirit. He is our
common denominator who will always lead us into truth. But to follow Him,
we must be willing to follow off the map—to go beyond what we know. To
do so successfully we must recognize His presence above all

This is a GREAT statement.
Seriously simon.
There is NO Scripture dissing or
undermining going on here at all.

these are this misguidings used in cults sunny, let's be real, "false sense of security from scripture" go off the map... Johnson is essentially saying ignore scripture and (go off the map) follow your gut...