Bill Johnson

[sunlover1]

Originally Posted by simonthezealot

Can you give me an example please?
​

Well if God speaks to you.. at all.

His word is living... So yes He does.

No, I wasn't asking IF God speaks to you.
You'd said you wanted an example, I was saying,
"ANY time God speaks to you.

Seek advice about GOD speaking to you?
Who would you go to?
I'm not talking about anything that would contradict Scripture
and I can see just from what I've heard of BJ that he'd never
suggest that.

Sure especially if it seems to not align with scripture...

I said something that DOESNT contradict Scripture
Say He told you to go to Africa.
Why would you consult flesh and blood?
Who can help you if you're hearing from God
except .. God?

 

[simonthezealot]

How do you figure?


What's wrong with this idea?


[/I]
Or this one?

you think we can just release God to our surrounding is He subject to us?
Some kind of controllable force?

 

[simonthezealot]

I said something that DOESNT contradict Scripture
Say He told you to go to Africa.
Why would you consult flesh and blood?
Who can help you if you're hearing from God
except .. God?

3 parts; prayer, scripture and Godly counsel...
Why? because this is the formula we see through out scripture.

 

[simonthezealot]

The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.
~ Psalm 119:130

Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel.

 

[sunlover1]

3 parts; prayer, scripture and Godly counsel...
Why? because this is the formula we see through out scripture.

I said IF God speaks TO you.
Why would you go to another MAN to ask him about something
God Himself said to YOU?
Scripture disagrees.

 

[sunlover1]

The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.
~ Psalm 119:130

Right, HIS Words.

Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel.

[/QUOTE]
This doesn't mean to get counsel about something God almighty
says to you. If God told you to give a hundred bucks to a homelss
man would you have to go ask another man?
God said His sheep know His voice.
What would that prove?

 

[simonthezealot]

I said IF God speaks TO you.
Why would you go to another MAN to ask him about something
God Himself said to YOU?
Scripture disagrees.

Only if I had questions whether indeed it was God or something I ate.
When i'm spoken to and there is no contradiction to scripture I can rest assure in His guidance.

 

[simonthezealot]

Right, HIS Words.

This doesn't mean to get counsel about something God almighty
says to you. If God told you to give a hundred bucks to a homelss
man would you have to go ask another man?
God said His sheep know His voice.
What would that prove?[/QUOTE]

That doesn't contradict His word...
i wouldn't need counsel.

 

[simonthezealot]

how about we get on topic.

 

[sunlover1]

That doesn't contradict His word...
i wouldn't need counsel.

That's what I said from the get go.
That it was something that does NOT
contradict Scripture.

how about we get on topic.

Well it is on topic.
Concerning this:
Following the leading of the Holy Spirit can present us with the same
dilemma. While he never contradicts His Word, He is very comfortable
contradicting our understanding of it. Those who feel safe because of their
intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security. None of us
has a full grasp of Scripture, but we all have the Holy Spirit. He is our
common denominator who will always lead us into truth. But to follow Him,
we must be willing to follow off the map—to go beyond what we know. To
do so successfully we must recognize His presence above all


That is what Mr Johnson is saying.
He said God NEVER contradicts His Word.

Then he said we must be willing to follow the Spirit
even if it means going beyond what we know.

 

[sunlover1]

these are this misguidings used in cults sunny, let's be real, "false sense of security from scripture"

That's not at all what he said though.

Those who feel safe because of their intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security.

That's something we see every day.
Men all puffed up with knowledge

He said:
While he never contradicts His Word, He is very comfortable contradicting our understanding of it.

And he's right.

 

[simonthezealot]

Johnsons states,
There were times in Jesus' ministry when everyone who touched Christ's clothing was healed or delivered. The anointing is substance. It is the actual presence of the Holy Spirit, and He can be released into our surroundings.

Here is another issue I have with this, Johnson says the anointing is the HS and I agree, but here he seems to alude that it was the substance of the HS doing the work when the reality is that the Father Son and HS are but ONE substance..He mixes up all sorts of theological terms unorthodoxically.



Scripture teaches...
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,

Johnson teaches...
God minus his sovreignty = the word in flesh.

 

[simonthezealot]

That is what Mr Johnson is saying.
He said God NEVER contradicts His Word.

Then he said we must be willing to follow the Spirit
even if it means going beyond what we know.

Right, God doesn't! but if we are following something other than the HS guiding us through scripture, and go off the map because we think it may be the HS, it's likely we will be.

 

[sunlover1]

Right, God doesn't! but if we are following something other than the HS guiding us through scripture, and go off the map because we think it may be the HS, it's likely we will be.

I already answered this but you missed it.

That's not at all what he said though.

Those who feel safe because of their intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security.

That's something we see every day.
Men all puffed up with knowledge

He said:
While he never contradicts His Word, He is very comfortable contradicting our understanding of it.

And he's right.

 

[sunlover1]

John MacArthur's Heresy Regarding Christ the Son:

John MacArthur teaches that although Jesus is eternal, He is not the eternal Son of God. He writes, “Son is an incarnational title of Christ. It is an analogy to say that God is Father and Jesus is Son … God’s way of helping us understand the essential relationship between the first and second persons of the Trinity … Christ was not a Son until His incarnation.” (Commentary to the Hebrews, pp. 27, 28)


I think if we examine every word by every pastor we get
some statements that seem like heresy.
But we have to look at the spirit behind it and try to
get to the actual truth.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

He said:
While he never contradicts His Word, He is very comfortable contradicting our understanding of it.

And he's right.

Wow that's good and so very true.
I see I've missed some pages over the past 24 hours
Got some catching up to do.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

Johnsons states,
There were times in Jesus' ministry when everyone who touched Christ's clothing was healed or delivered. The anointing is substance. It is the actual presence of the Holy Spirit, and He can be released into our surroundings.

Here is another issue I have with this, Johnson says the anointing is the HS and I agree, but here he seems to alude that it was the substance of the HS doing the work when the reality is that the Father Son and HS are but ONE substance..He mixes up all sorts of theological terms unorthodoxically.

Ok, I want to say something as I look through the examples of quotes by Bill which you're trying to pick apart. The above is what the Lord means when He talks of how people try to make someone "an offender for a word".

the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off: That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought. - Isaiah 29:20-21

In so many cases of what's written about Bill Johnson, all I see is a lot of 'reaching' to try to find him guilty of some horrible treason against God. This argument barely makes sense. It's almost like Bill Clinton arguing over the definition of the word "is".. It's all in how you're interpreting what he's written.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

3 parts; prayer, scripture and Godly counsel...
Why? because this is the formula we see through out scripture.

Jesus didn't consult people, I don't see anywhere (correct me if I'm mistaken) where He asked people for advice or counsel. The scriptures tell us He did only that which He saw His Father do. We are called to walk like Jesus. That means God comes first

 

[NorrinRadd]

In response to my comment here:

Not only doe Jesus see the Father (and no one ever sees God – John 1:18), ...

NorrinRadd wrote:

Ex. 33:11, Num. 12:8 -- See above comment about "tensions."

Can you cite one scholar, any, who would back up your claim that John 1:18 is an evidence of "tension"?

Why would I care? It is unmistakably either "tension" (to use the common circumlocution) or "contradiction."

 

[NorrinRadd]

these are this misguidings used in cults sunny, let's be real, "false sense of security from scripture" go off the map... Johnson is essentially saying ignore scripture and (go off the map) follow your gut...

You misleadingly misquote him.