Bill Johnson

[sunlover1]

What about Him and Nathanael under the fig?

I think so Simon.
Didn't Paul say something similar once?

 

[simonthezealot]

I think so Simon.
Didn't Paul say something similar once?

Like this?? Paul where?

45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the One Moses wrote about in the Law (and so did the prophets): Jesus the son of Joseph, from Nazareth!”

46 “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” Nathanael asked him.

“Come and see,” Philip answered.

47 Then Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him and said about him, “Here is a true Israelite; no deceit is in him.”

48 “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.

“Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you,” Jesus answered.

49 “Rabbi,” Nathanael replied, “You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

 

[simonthezealot]

That's what I always thought.
No?

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me
will do the works I have been doing...
...because I am going to the Father.


That's why it was important that He leave... I guess.

They (the apostles) would do a GREAT MANY miracles, more than The Christ even...In order to spread the gospel...

 

[NorrinRadd]

Not familiar with those scholars, with the exception of Martin.
Point me to that post please.

Here.

#1 is Walter Martin.

#2 is Gordon Fee.

#3 is Gerald Hawthorne.

I can get you the exact sources and page numbers for the quotes later.

 

[sunlover1]

They (the apostles) would do a GREAT MANY miracles, more than The Christ even...In order to spread the gospel...

Not "they" (Apostles), it says
WHOEVER believes in Me

 

[HisSparkPlug]

No BJ says while eternally God He performed miracles as man NOT as God.

That's right, He HAD to perform miracles just as we humans would in order to set a standard we humans can reach - Otherwise we would never be able to do what Jesus says we will do, which is "he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father" - Jn 14:12

Every time this point above is brought up, you have no response for it..

Johnson does not say that Jesus was not God - he states over & over that Jesus was God while on earth

 

[sunlover1]

Not "they" (Apostles), it says
WHOEVER believes in Me

Jesus did this to demonstrate the power of God IN man.
just as we do these things (whatever things we do)
by the power of God so that all who see, should see God,
Because it's no longer me who lives but Christ IN me.

He came to Jesus at night and said,
"Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher
who has come from God.
For no one could perform the signs you
are doing if God were not with him."

 

[HisSparkPlug]

Like this?? Paul where?

45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the One Moses wrote about in the Law (and so did the prophets): Jesus the son of Joseph, from Nazareth!”

46 “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” Nathanael asked him.

“Come and see,” Philip answered.

47 Then Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him and said about him, “Here is a true Israelite; no deceit is in him.”

48 “How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.

“Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you,” Jesus answered.

49 “Rabbi,” Nathanael replied, “You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

There are all sorts of the people of God who see like this. What Jesus did, we can also do if we have the amount of intimacy with God & the standard of holiness required to attain that level of trust with Him.

 

[simonthezealot]

There are all sorts of the people of God who see like this. What Jesus did, we can also do if we have the amount of intimacy with God & the standard of holiness required to attain that level of trust with Him.

Ah a spiritual hierarchy...

SMH..

That is beyond unscriptural, and exactly what Bill and the word of faith teachers preach, it depends on our level of fatih...What greater fatih can there be thatn to believe as Peter did that Christ is the Holy one of God?

 

[HisSparkPlug]

He was omnipotent in that He walked on water (Matthew 14:22-33)

Peter also walked on water in the power of God by faith - does that make him omnipotent?

as well as commanded the wind.

- Moses parted the red sea with a stick (winds blew it back for them)
- Moses (thru God) had the sun stand still
- Elijah (thru God) had the rain stop and start

He remained omniscient;He knew what was in man (John 2:25). He was omnipresent, yet not physically present afterall we know He saw Nathaniel under a tree (John 1:45-49).

Those who function in the gift of the Word of knowledge have the ability to see the same about people. We have the Word of God living in our hearts and so we can do the same
the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. - Heb 4:12

Jesus was operating from a place of authority in the same way we as humans are capable of with God's enabling. He "accessed" the power of God the same way we can if we live in a place of deep intimacy with Abba.

 

[simonthezealot]

We need to place our faith in Christ, not the doctrines of demons.

 

[sunlover1]

We need to place our faith in Christ, not the doctrines of demons.

Who's doing otherwise?
What "doctrine of demons"?

 

[HisSparkPlug]

Ah a spiritual hierarchy...

You continue to ignore this:
He HAD to perform miracles just as we humans would in order to set a standard we humans can reach - Otherwise we would never be able to do what Jesus says we will do, which is "he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father" - Jn 14:12

Tell us please, how humans can have any hope of being just like Jesus, doing everything He did in greater measure if He did the things He did using His Godly powers. By using Godly powers He would not have been like man.
Just because He chose to live life limited as a human does not remove His deity.

 

[simonthezealot]

You continue to ignore this:
He HAD to perform miracles just as we humans would in order to set a standard we humans can reach - Otherwise we would never be able to do what Jesus says we will do, which is "he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father" - Jn 14:12

Tell us please, how humans can have any hope of being just like Jesus, doing everything He did in greater measure if He did the things He did using His Godly powers. By using Godly powers He would not have been like man.
Just because He chose to live life limited as a human does not remove His deity.

Why do humans need to reach anything, how self gloryfying is that?
Faith is not a force and when people use it as one it is a dangerous soul-destroying heresy.
Keep knocking down Christ in order to bring glory to man...
Remember He said I will NOT give my glory to another...

 

[HisSparkPlug]

That is beyond unscriptural, and exactly what Bill and the word of faith teachers preach, it depends on our level of fatih...What greater fatih can there be thatn to believe as Peter did that Christ is the Holy one of God?

hmmm.. well Peter didn't seem to maintain his faith long enough to remain on the top of the water he walked on, did he? I think the subject of faith goes a lot deeper than what you're conveying above..
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder - James 2:19

 

[simonthezealot]

Who's doing otherwise?
What "doctrine of demons"?

Spiritual heirarchy as HSP was promoting is nothing short of a doctrine of the demons, these teachers have created a self appointed heirarchy of "so-called" anointed ones.

What greater faith can one have than Peter displayed in Matt 16?

 

[HisSparkPlug]

Why do humans need to reach anything, how self gloryfying is that?
Faith is not a force and when people use it as one it is a dangerous soul-destroying heresy.
Keep knocking down Christ in order to bring glory to man...
Remember He said I will NOT give my glory to another...

This is just a straw man you're tossing into the mix.
What do you mean "why do humans need to reach anything"? and then saying it's self glorifying... gosh that's a very weak argument.. actually it is no argument at all...
You're familiar with this passage right?
Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained. - Philippians 3

 

[sunlover1]

Spiritual heirarchy as HSP was promoting is nothing short of a doctrine of the demons, these teachers have created a self appointed heirarchy of "so-called" anointed ones.

What greater faith can one have than Peter displayed in Matt 16?

Well I'd like to focus on BJ and what he teaches.
I'm interested to find out the 'truth' about him.
So far, we've seen one thing that he says that
bothers people and we're finding out that it is
probably actually biblical.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

We need to place our faith in Christ, not the doctrines of demons.

Maybe you can be more clear... Are you saying what's written below are doctrines of demons? This is what's in the bible..

He was omnipotent in that He walked on water (Matthew 14:22-33)

Peter also walked on water in the power of God by faith - does that make him omnipotent?

as well as commanded the wind.

- Moses parted the red sea with a stick (winds blew it back for them)
- Moses (thru God) had the sun stand still
- Elijah (thru God) had the rain stop and start

He remained omniscient;He knew what was in man (John 2:25). He was omnipresent, yet not physically present afterall we know He saw Nathaniel under a tree (John 1:45-49).

Those who function in the gift of the Word of knowledge have the ability to see the same about people. We have the Word of God living in our hearts and so we can do the same
the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. - Heb 4:12

Jesus was operating from a place of authority in the same way we as humans are capable of with God's enabling. He "accessed" the power of God the same way we can if we live in a place of deep intimacy with Abba.

 

[sunlover1]

Why do humans need to reach anything, how self gloryfying is that?
Faith is not a force and when people use it as one it is a dangerous soul-destroying heresy.
Keep knocking down Christ in order to bring glory to man...
Remember He said I will NOT give my glory to another...

That's HER theology, not BJ's.
We're getting away from the OP.
Maybe you and HSP could discuss her
theology somewhere else ?

I'd like to continue our subject of God emptying
Himself.