Big March in DC to Support Something

[Tiberius Lee]

Nope - I don't believe there is anything I can link to that you would accept. We are diametrically opposed. I am happy leaving you with your beliefs and hope you can find the grace to do so with me. I'm done.

Thank you in advance.

We have fundamentally opposite view how a society should be and how America should be. In one hand you and many conservatives thinks last summer’s BLM movement city to city in USA is a violent act and BLM movement is a violent organization, on the other hand I and many others who support BLM , we see a minority group, who has been oppressed over 400 years, and despite all the progress since emancipation proclamation they are still systematically oppressed in our society. Their teen-age boys can’t go out on the street without getting killed by the very people who supposed to protect them. And when they seek justice, many Americans call them violent.

I am not graceful enough to leave you with your belief. Because the question is, can we co-exist in our society with these two fundamentally opposite views? Last time America asked that question, America found herself in middle of civil war. And at the end 600 thousand Americans paid the ultimate price. May be America needs another Abraham Lincoln who will risk a civil war to do the right thing.

 

[hislegacy]

I am not graceful enough to leave you with your belief. Because the question is, can we co-exist in our society with these two fundamentally opposite views?

I appreciate your honesty -

My direct answer, yes we certainly can. It takes BOTH sides making the conscious decision to use intelligent conversation over violence. It takes BOTH sides making the conscious decision to treat the other like they we loved and valued. It takes BOTH sides making the conscious decision to not break things, burn down businesses, assault innocent people, kill people because of their anger.

I have great faith in the American system. I witnessed first hand the power Dr. King used to change the nation for the better. At the same time I witnessed the destruction brought on by others who chose violence, destruction and death over coming together.

Their teen-age boys can’t go out on the street without getting killed by the very people who supposed to protect them. And when they seek justice, many Americans call them violent.

Census reports there are 40,000,000 blacks in America - in 2021 113 of 40,000,000 were killed in altercations with Police. That is a percentage of 0.0000028. Take out the gang related and violence related and it drops exponentially. Note I am using Statista and not the press for the numbers.

Because of the reality of those numbers, it is not anywhere near accurate to say "Their teen-age boys can’t go out on the street without getting killed by the very people who supposed to protect them". That just is not accurate unless you use media that misses the actual stats. Their teenage boys are being gunned down in the greatest numbers by members of their own race.

That bring me to my position on BLM, whose sole focus in on police interactions while completely ignoring the issue that cause in the neighborhood of 1,000% more deaths to Blacks.

Nor can I leave you with your beliefs, but hopefully I did it as graciously as you did. Thank you.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

I appreciate your honesty -

My direct answer, yes we certainly can. It takes BOTH sides making the conscious decision to use intelligent conversation over violence. It takes BOTH sides making the conscious decision to treat the other like they we loved and valued. It takes BOTH sides making the conscious decision to not break things, burn down businesses, assault innocent people, kill people because of their anger.

I have great faith in the American system. I witnessed first hand the power Dr. King used to change the nation for the better. At the same time I witnessed the destruction brought on by others who chose violence, destruction and death over coming together.



Census reports there are 40,000,000 blacks in America - in 2021 113 of 40,000,000 were killed in altercations with Police. That is a percentage of 0.0000028. Take out the gang related and violence related and it drops exponentially. Note I am using Statista and not the press for the numbers.

Because of the reality of those numbers, it is not anywhere near accurate to say "Their teen-age boys can’t go out on the street without getting killed by the very people who supposed to protect them". That just is not accurate unless you use media that misses the actual stats. Their teenage boys are being gunned down in the greatest numbers by members of their own race.

That bring me to my position on BLM, whose sole focus in on police interactions while completely ignoring the issue that cause in the neighborhood of 1,000% more deaths to Blacks.

Nor can I leave you with your beliefs, but hopefully I did it as graciously as you did. Thank you.

No , we can’t co-exist nor can both side making conscious decision, because I don’t think today’s conservatives view belongs in 2021 century. I believe those views belongs in 17th century and the world has progressed too much to make concession and go back to society which we left 300 years ago. Your post just prove that we can’t co-exist nor can I gracefully let you have your believe. You just proved again that rather then addressing the police brutality, injustice, racial profile toward African American, you point the finger back to victims. No I don’t want to co-exist nor I want to come to a concession with people who blame the victim.

 

[hislegacy]

No , we can’t co-exist nor can both side making conscious decision, because I don’t think today’s conservatives view belongs in 2021 century. I believe those views belongs in 17th century and the world has progressed too much to make concession and go back to society which we left 300 years ago. Your post just prove that we can’t co-exist nor can I gracefully let you have your believe. You just proved again that rather then addressing the police brutality, injustice, racial profile toward African American, you point the finger back to victims. No I don’t want to co-exist nor I want to come to a concession with people who blame the victim.

Well, OK - have a great day!

I'm willing to coexist - you are not. Nothing more to be said.

 

[Pommer]

No , we can’t co-exist nor can both side making conscious decision, because I don’t think today’s conservatives view belongs in 2021 century. I believe those views belongs in 17th century and the world has progressed too much to make concession and go back to society which we left 300 years ago. Your post just prove that we can’t co-exist nor can I gracefully let you have your believe. You just proved again that rather then addressing the police brutality, injustice, racial profile toward African American, you point the finger back to victims. No I don’t want to co-exist nor I want to come to a concession with people who blame the victim.

Big Picture Time

The actual “problem” in these interesting times, is that our Nation is set up to hash out political policies (which become laws and regulations*), in our legislative bodies and not out on the street or the “information superhighway”.
But as we are polarized (both nationally and at the State/Local levels), it becomes difficult to run a “rule-of-law” based society since the ruling party in any given locale ramrods through its agenda; instead of old-fashioned “you get some things you want and we get some things we want” consensus.

Our Governments are broken, we need to fix them then “fight the good fight” in the arenas where they are designed to be!


*regulations such as EPA, OHSA things, have the force of law based on Congressional Authority being ceded to the necessary Executive Branch Agencies, with the courts being arbiter of where such agencies’ policies might infringe on freedoms too much.

 

[hislegacy]

Big Picture Time

The actual “problem” in these interesting times, is that our Nation is set up to hash out political policies (which become laws and regulations*), in our legislative bodies and not out on the street or the “information superhighway”.
But as we are polarized (both nationally and at the State/Local levels), it becomes difficult to run a “rule-of-law” based society since the ruling party in any given locale ramrods through its agenda; instead of old-fashioned “you get some things you want and we get some things we want” consensus.

Our Governments are broken, we need to fix them then “fight the good fight” in the arenas where they are designed to be!


*regulations such as EPA, OHSA things, have the force of law based on Congressional Authority being ceded to the necessary Executive Branch Agencies, with the courts being arbiter of where such agencies’ policies might infringe on freedoms too much.

EXCELLENT!

 

[hislegacy]

I am not graceful enough to leave you with your belief

nor can I gracefully let you have your believe

BTW, since you repeated this thought twice.

My beliefs are just that - my beliefs. As your beliefs are yours - I uphold your perfect right to hold whatever beliefs you have, for what ever reasons you have followed. Bravo for you. I appreciate an impassioned belief system.

I'll have my beliefs regardless of yours, and/or the level of graciousness you demonstrate.

I learned this through growing up as the son of a legal immigrant who witnessed his parents and grand parents being discriminated for years and seldom if ever hearing them saying something against the whites and others doing the discrimination. They chose not to act like victims, but got their 'revenge' by living good lives and taking care of others.

I'll be honest, I am a bit jaded because throughout college I experienced a fair amount of racism and it was almost exclusively from white Democrats who did not like my beliefs. Oh, the people who had the same pigmentation as I did were welcome, but only if we towed the line with their beliefs. There was little to no tolerance for different belief systems.

Some things have not changed.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

BTW, since you repeated this thought twice.

My beliefs are just that - my beliefs. As your beliefs are yours - I uphold your perfect right to hold whatever beliefs you have, for what ever reasons you have followed. Bravo for you. I appreciate an impassioned belief system.

I'll have my beliefs regardless of yours, and/or the level of graciousness you demonstrate.

I learned this through growing up as the son of a legal immigrant who witnessed his parents and grand parents being discriminated for years and seldom if ever hearing them saying something against the whites and others doing the discrimination. They chose not to act like victims, but got their 'revenge' by living good lives and taking care of others.

I'll be honest, I am a bit jaded because throughout college I experienced a fair amount of racism and it was almost exclusively from white Democrats who did not like my beliefs. Oh, the people who had the same pigmentation as I did were welcome, but only if we towed the line with their beliefs. There was little to no tolerance for different belief systems.

Some things have not changed.

So your advise to minorities who are discriminated; tough love, get real and grow up. While you ignore those who actually doing the discrimination. Or in this specific issue we are talking about-police brutality, you completely ignore the problem but point finger to gang violence. No wonder last 5-7 years white supremist are coming out of the cave and marching on the street, and presidential candidate telling white supremist “ stand by”.

 

[hislegacy]

So your advise to minorities who are discriminated; tough love, get real and grow up. While you ignore those who actually doing the discrimination. Or in this specific issue we are talking about-police brutality, you completely ignore the problem but point finger to gang violence. No wonder last 5-7 years white supremist are coming out of the cave and marching on the street, and presidential candidate telling white supremist “ stand by”.

Oh, horsehocky - that is not what I am saying at all. That might be your perception, but it is in error.

You've watched too much TV and not read enough IMHO. I'm not into the over dramatization from the media the moment Trump rode down the escalator, while they completely ignore White Supremist (oooh scary) who backed his opponents.

How many cases of police brutality - give me a specific number?
Now take that number and how many have been black?
Now how many of those with blacks fought or threatened the Police involved?

If you cannot speak of those numbers, then you just want to advance a narrative that cannot be supported in real life.

Of the ones that are left - name one - just one that did not go through a review board or trial.

Every time an officer is involved in a shooting he goes through and administrative hearing - many many cities have civilian and professional boards to this. If he is found in violation he suffers the consequences.

Where is George Floyds killer right now?

How did the riots across the nation - the violence, the looting the destruction help the legal process that convicted and imprisoned his killer?

Can you answer any of those questions?

 

[hislegacy]

So your advise to minorities

My advice to minorities comes directly from my Grand father.

Act like you are who you are. If someone comes and calls you a donkey, it doesn't make you a donkey unless their words cause you to bray at the moon. The best revenge is a life well lived.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

Oh, horsehocky - that is not what I am saying at all. That might be your perception, but it is in error.

You've watched too much TV and not read enough IMHO. I'm not into the over dramatization from the media the moment Trump rode down the escalator, while they completely ignore White Supremist (oooh scary) who backed his opponents.

How many cases of police brutality - give me a specific number?
Now take that number and how many have been black?
Now how many of those with blacks fought or threatened the Police involved?

If you cannot speak of those numbers, then you just want to advance a narrative that cannot be supported in real life.

Of the ones that are left - name one - just one that did not go through a review board or trial.

Every time an officer is involved in a shooting he goes through and administrative hearing - many many cities have civilian and professional boards to this. If he is found in violation he suffers the consequences.

Where is George Floyds killer right now?

How did the riots across the nation - the violence, the looting the destruction help the legal process that convicted and imprisoned his killer?

Can you answer any of those questions?

I will ignore the insult about “watching TV and not reading” and get back to the debate

How many police brutality would change your mind? Isn’t one enough? Isn’t Jacob Blake get shot 7 times by police enough , is Breonna Taylor get killed in her own house enough for you? It seems like you again and again bring out looting and property destruction. If you and other conservatives had same concern about “ black lives” like you have concern about “property destruction” , may be we could have “concession” and come up with a law / policy that we both can agree.

 

[hislegacy]

I will ignore the insult about “watching TV and not reading” and get back to the debate

How many police brutality would change your mind? Isn’t one enough? Isn’t Jacob Blake get shot 7 times by police enough , is Breonna Taylor get killed in her own house enough for you? It seems like you again and again bring out looting and property destruction. If you and other conservatives had same concern about “ black lives” like you have concern about “property destruction” , may be we could have “concession” and come up with a law / policy that we both can agree.

To have an open discussion, there has to be give and take -

Please answer my questions first and then you can ask yours - If you plan on this being one sided - I'll leave it now - if you want to engage, I welcome it.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

To have an open discussion, there has to be give and take -

Please answer my questions first and then you can ask yours - If you plan on this being one sided - I'll leave it now - if you want to engage, I welcome it.

What kind of discussion you want me to have with you? You don’t even want to acknowledge that there is a systematic police brutality toward African American and unarmed black men dies in the hand of police.

 

[hislegacy]

What kind of discussion you want me to have with you? You don’t even want to acknowledge that there is a systematic police brutality toward African American and unarmed black men dies in the hand of police.

When you are ready and have answered my question I will re engage. Until then........see ya!

 

[Tiberius Lee]

When you are ready and have answered my question I will re engage. Until then........see ya!

As I said in post # 21 “We have fundamentally opposite view of a society” and we can’t co-exist. Good thing is most likely we don’t need another civil war to correct our mistake, Darwinism is taking care of the issue itself. As the Non-Hispanic White population decreasing ( by 2030 it will be 55%) so is conservatism. Minority Americans and young Americans, regardless of their race and ethnicity, rejects todays conservative’s ideology overwhelmingly . Unless the current conservatism change and adopt 21st century mentality , the current conservatism will belong in museum by 2035!

 

[hislegacy]

Darwinism is taking care of the issue itself. As the Non-Hispanic White population decreasing ( by 2030 it will be 55%) so is conservatism.

I'll not be interacting with you again.

 

[Tiberius Lee]

Expressing the hopes for and entire race or political party to die is beyond my ability to comment on politely and is the most racist thing I have ever heard in my life. I am appalled someone in todays society would even say such horrible things about and entire people group.

I'll not be interacting with you again. God forgive you.

I didn’t hope for anything, I stated the fact that in US white population is decreasing and by 2030 the white population will be 55%. That is a fact. You can’t accept a simple math so you call me racist!

And yes , it will be good news when current republican party only exist in history book.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Now the fascist Patriot Front tried to crash an anti-abortion march in Chicago. Evidently they were not welcome. As I heard it, they waited until the 'March for Life' was over, and then marched the route on their own.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Now the fascist Patriot Front tried to crash an anti-abortion march in Chicago. Evidently they were not welcome. As I heard it, they waited until the 'March for Life' was over, and then marched the route on their own.

I am impressed that the anti-abortion people have a fair amount of integrity. Good for them. And it is so nice of the members of the Patriot Front to make themselves so easily recognized. There is not much difference between their uniforms and those of the KKK.

 

[Desk trauma]

I am impressed that the anti-abortion people have a fair amount of integrity. Good for them. And it is so nice of the members of the Patriot Front to make themselves so easily recognized. There is not much difference between their uniforms and those of the KKK.

They carry very different shields.