Big Bang proved God?

[Uber Genius]

I try to contribute to the field. I am sorry.

The problem may be my inability to understand rather than your approach.

That said if you watch the video you will see a great approach to arguing for God that uses science to support a premise in an argument.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Be more specific: your talk was proof for Theists, and the total nonsense for Atheists. Why? The judge of the validity of a Proof is human's God: idol of atheism, or the God of Theism. The war of Gods: idol of Atheists vs. God of Theists

My point was the Big Bang is not scientific proof of God. At best, it is coherent with the idea of God. But then the whole of creation is coherent with the idea of God, just not a proof. A sensible atheist will see that coherence, or maybe blind herself to it, but it is not nonsense. Neither is it proof. Romans 1 applies.

 

[joinfree]

My point was the Big Bang is not scientific proof of God. At best, it is coherent with the idea of God. But then the whole of creation is coherent with the idea of God, just not a proof. A sensible atheist will see that coherence, or maybe blind herself to it, but it is not nonsense. Neither is it proof. Romans 1 applies.

If God is not proven, then theists do not know own God???

 

[Speedwell]

If God is not proven, then theists do not know own God???

They know God through faith, not science. Science has nothing to say about the existence of God, one way or the other.

 

[joinfree]

They know God through faith.

Is faith always blind? Do not pay respect to Atheism.

 

[Speedwell]

Is faith always blind? Do not pay respect to Atheism.

Faith is a different way of knowing. But I can see that the existence of God as a scientifically unfalsifiable proposition is a nuisance to creationists--they can't use science to push their particular God up our noses.

 

[HitchSlap]

If God is not proven, then theists do not know own God???

 

[bhsmte]

Is faith always blind? Do not pay respect to Atheism.

You seem infatuated with atheists and the reality that some people don't believe in your God.

Don't worry, you can still believe in God, even though some people disagree with you.

 

[HitchSlap]

Is faith always blind?

Is water always wet?

Do not pay respect to Atheism.

You're free to respect what you like.

 

[joinfree]

Faith is a different way of knowing. But I can see that the existence of God as a scientifically unfalsifiable proposition is a nuisance to creationists--they can't use science to push their particular God up our noses.

The faith is faithfulness to KNOWLEDGE, so the Church Dogmas are scientifically PROVEN KNOWLEDGE. Science is quest for knowledge, not a method. Knowledge of any human is the knowledge, which has his God. Any human has God in his heart, atheists have idol of atheism in their hearts. Who is making atheists say "there is no god"? Science proof? No, they say Science has no notion of proofs. Even trigonometry is not proven for atheists. Perhaps the dictator is "god"? Indeed, in the eyes of my God there are pagans and believers in the world, there is no mystical atheism. It is most old idolatry, which is basis for every evil and idolatry. Therefore, by denying own false religion, the atheism is in self-denial. Look the video with Dr. Kaku in the thread. Self-denial of the false religion. The pagans deny the “false” part, but atheists deny both the “false” and “religion” parts.

 

[HitchSlap]

The faith is faithfulness to KNOWLEDGE, so the Church Dogmas are scientifically PROVEN KNOWLEDGE. Science is quest for knowledge, not a method. Knowledge of any human is the knowledge, which has his God. Any human has God in his heart, atheists have idol of atheism in their hearts. Who is making atheists say "there is no god"? Science proof? No, they say Science has no notion of proofs. Even trigonometry is not proven for atheists. Perhaps the dictator is "god"? Indeed, in the eyes of my God there are pagans and believers in the world, there is no mystical atheism. It is most old idolatry, which is basis for every evil and idolatry. Therefore, by denying own false religion, the atheism is in self-denial. Look the video with Dr. Kaku in the thread. Self-denial of the false religion. The pagans deny the “false” part, but atheists deny both the “false” and “religion” parts.

 

[chevyontheriver]

If God is not proven, then theists do not know own God???

I'm done here.

 

[Uber Genius]

Faith is a different way of knowing. But I can see that the existence of God as a scientifically unfalsifiable proposition is a nuisance to creationists--they can't use science to push their particular God up our noses.

What religion are you speaking of?

Both in the Testament and New God demonstrates that he is tustworthy though miracles and fulfilled prophecies. Paul argues all across Asia Minor in synagogues with reasons and evidences. He argues withe gentile philosophers in Athens and Ephesus with philosophical arguments.

Knowledge is a cause, faith is an effect! Don't mix those up.

Don't trample all those who signed their testimonies in blood to bring the evidence.dont trample all those who have died to preserve the evidence.

Only to make an elementary mistake of reversing cause and effect so one can look spiritual. "You believe because you have evidence, I beleive without evidence." This is not Christian maturity it is a misrepresentation of scripture and it stumbles the weak and creates a strawman out of the account of Christianity to the non-believer!

 

[Speedwell]

The faith is faithfulness to KNOWLEDGE, so the Church Dogmas are scientifically PROVEN KNOWLEDGE. Science is quest for knowledge, not a method. Knowledge of any human is the knowledge, which has his God. Any human has God in his heart, atheists have idol of atheism in their hearts. Who is making atheists say "there is no god"? Science proof? No, they say Science has no notion of proofs. Even trigonometry is not proven for atheists. Perhaps the dictator is "god"? Indeed, in the eyes of my God there are pagans and believers in the world, there is no mystical atheism. It is most old idolatry, which is basis for every evil and idolatry. Therefore, by denying own false religion, the atheism is in self-denial. Look the video with Dr. Kaku in the thread. Self-denial of the false religion. The pagans deny the “false” part, but atheists deny both the “false” and “religion” parts.

Ah, a new Sola. How inventive of you. Shall we call it Sola Doctrina? Much better than the old Sola Fides. You can use it to build a tower of rational theology which will reach Heaven. Good luck!

 

[durangodawood]

Very confusing.

Typically the argument for God's existence is that we know from the Big Bang (or inflationary model) that the universe came into being out of nothing.

Now in philosophical terms nothing means not anything, no space, no time, no laws of physics, no matter, no energy.

From there we argue:

Anything that begins to exist has a cause

If the universe began to exist its cause is God.

We then highlight that since creation of matter, energy, space and time occurs a finite time ago, it's cause must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, immensely intelligent to fine tune the universe for life, immensely powerful, and uncaused or eternal.

This is the Kalam Cosmological Argument!

Ugh. Thats a terrible argument.

 

[Uber Genius]

If God is not proven, then theists do not know own God???

And a wolf owns a box of hats.

 

[Paulos23]

Ugh. Thats a terrible argument.

It is.

And worse, people try to go from that to the God of the Bible. And fail.

 

[Uber Genius]

Ugh. Thats a terrible argument.

Hmm not what most atheist philosophers say about the argument.

Normally, assuming one has minimal comprehension, one responds with questions or premises or undercutting defeaters. Help us with reasons why the Kalam fails based on your research.

Which premises? Please undercut or knock down the premise. Be specific.

 

[Uber Genius]

It is.

And worse, people try to go from that to the God of the Bible. And fail.

Again, why prop up the belief that atheists are intellectually lazy with these replies.

It appears like you have no knowledge of philosophy, or atheists who have commented on the difficulty the Kalam presents them. If you are having a comprehension problem be specific. If you have a defeater by all mean share it. But pretend you have engaged in a philosophical discussion at least once before. You are representing atheists as ignorant, close-minded, arrogant and opinionated. You can't all be like Richard Dawkins.

 

[Speedwell]

What religion are you speaking of?

Both in the Testament and New God demonstrates that he is tustworthy though miracles and fulfilled prophecies. Paul argues all across Asia Minor in synagogues with reasons and evidences. He argues withe gentile philosophers in Athens and Ephesus with philosophical arguments.

Knowledge is a cause, faith is an effect! Don't mix those up.

Don't trample all those who signed their testimonies in blood to bring the evidence.dont trample all those who have died to preserve the evidence.

Only to make an elementary mistake of reversing cause and effect so one can look spiritual. "You believe because you have evidence, I beleive without evidence." This is not Christian maturity it is a misrepresentation of scripture and it stumbles the weak and creates a strawman out of the account of Christianity to the non-believer!

You know full well what "religion" I am speaking of. And no, I don't believe without evidence. But I don't have any evidence of biblical creationism and I don't need any to put my faith in Christ. The only people who need scientific evidence of biblical creationism are those who wish to install it, along with their own brand of prayer and Bible study, in the public schools. To that end, creationism must be science. And what is being proposed here in aid of that quest is the doctrine that the scientific accuracy of the Genesis stories is an essential component of a saving faith in Christ. That's fine, if that's what creationists want to believe. But creationists have neither the authority nor the regard to dictate that belief to the rest of Christendom.