Biden's Open Borders

[wing2000]

Does the law require all employers to use e-verify? What's the penalty for failing to use it?

What good is a penalty if the Feds are not going to use it?

2019 study:

"...overall data shows that criminal prosecutions of employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers are rare, and most that are convicted receive little more than token punishment. Since criminal penalties against employers for hiring undocumented workers were enacted in 1986, the number of prosecutions have rarely surpassed 15 per year, according to an analysis by Syracuse University.

Department of Justice data analyzed by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse show that criminal prosecutions against employer representatives for hiring undocumented workers have never exceeded 20 per year, except during 2005 under George W. Bush and in 2009 under Barack Obama.

The numbers have held steady under President Donald Trump, even as almost every other enforcement measure has surged. From April 2018 through March 2019, 11 individuals representing employers were prosecuted for hiring workers without proper documentation. Of those, only three were sentenced to prison time.

Do Employers Face Consequences for Hiring Unauthorized Workers?

The recent immigration enforcement raids at several chicken-processing plants in Mississippi netted hundreds of arrests and dozens of criminal indictments against undocumented workers. But the action brings up a long-standing question, especially in an...

www.shrm.org

 

[BCP1928]

I dont think they are despised. I think what what they are doing is heavily disliked by people. Those same people would be welcome if they came here legally.

I dont think employers who hire them despise them. I think they are taking advantage of them. Not out of hatred but out of opportunity.

We are all pandered to in some extent by our parties. No because they despise us, but because they want to obtain or keep power.



I disagree. Most people haven't got a clue. If you were to ask the average person if they are okay with people being exploited so they can have cheap tomatoes they'd say no.

Where are the "people" demanding that we have cheap labor from illegals?

They're in support the Republican party. That's why MAGA wants to deport legal aliens and leave the illegals alone. Asylum seekers and refugees are here legally, even if they initially entered the country undocumented. They can work legally and are protected by US wage and labor laws, making them difficult to exploit.

This is based upon politicians fear of what would happen if they did something about it, like require e-verify and offer a lot more green cards for work easier to obtain.

Totally agree.

Right.

 

[Belk]

I dont think they are despised. I think what what they are doing is heavily disliked by people. Those same people would be welcome if they came here legally.

<looks at how those who seek asylum and others who come through legal means are treated> No. Not seeing it. They are still being accused of horrific things like stealing and eating pets and plenty of people are more then willing to accept that at face value.

I dont think employers who hire them despise them. I think they are taking advantage of them. Not out of hatred but out of opportunity.

That I agree with. Though there is a certain level of disdain needed to exploit people I think.

We are all pandered to in some extent by our parties. No because they despise us, but because they want to obtain or keep power.

True enough. A fair point.

I disagree. Most people haven't got a clue. If you were to ask the average person if they are okay with people being exploited so they can have cheap tomatoes they'd say no.

Oh come on. You don't think the average person knows we are exploiting immigrant labor? I think that is common knowledge given how much this topic is in the news.

Where are the "people" demanding that we have cheap labor from illegals?

Who needs to demand it? It is not like anyone had done anything to stop it?

This is based upon politicians fear of what would happen if they did something about it, like require e-verify and offer a lot more green cards for work easier to obtain.

Indeed. You will note Trump has not demanded any increase in e-verify or any enforcement on the employment side.

Totally agree.

Indeed. Just wish we could actually get our parties to take action in the areas we do agree on but we seem to be to gridlocked for even that simple of a task.

 

[rjs330]

What good is a penalty if the Feds are not going to use it?

2019 study:

"...overall data shows that criminal prosecutions of employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers are rare, and most that are convicted receive little more than token punishment. Since criminal penalties against employers for hiring undocumented workers were enacted in 1986, the number of prosecutions have rarely surpassed 15 per year, according to an analysis by Syracuse University.

Department of Justice data analyzed by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse at Syracuse show that criminal prosecutions against employer representatives for hiring undocumented workers have never exceeded 20 per year, except during 2005 under George W. Bush and in 2009 under Barack Obama.

The numbers have held steady under President Donald Trump, even as almost every other enforcement measure has surged. From April 2018 through March 2019, 11 individuals representing employers were prosecuted for hiring workers without proper documentation. Of those, only three were sentenced to prison time.

Do Employers Face Consequences for Hiring Unauthorized Workers?

The recent immigration enforcement raids at several chicken-processing plants in Mississippi netted hundreds of arrests and dozens of criminal indictments against undocumented workers. But the action brings up a long-standing question, especially in an...

www.shrm.org

Are we debating something? Ive lost track. I think we agree on what should be done. Perhaps we ought to find something we disagree on.

 

[rjs330]

They're in support the Republican party. That's why MAGA wants to deport legal aliens and leave the illegals alone. Asylum seekers and refugees are here legally, even if they initially entered the country undocumented. They can work legally and are protected by US wage and labor laws, making them difficult to exploit.

I think you are missing some things here. Something that been addressed more than once. Sorry you missed it.

Or did you?

 

[BCP1928]

I think you are missing some things here. Something that been addressed more than once. Sorry you missed it.

Or did you?

I didn't miss it[ it's still going on.

 

[rjs330]

<looks at how those who seek asylum and others who come through legal means are treated> No. Not seeing it. They are still being accused of horrific things like stealing and eating pets and plenty of people are more then willing to accept that at face value.

I think the issue is people understand that the just because you claim asylum doesn't mean your claim is legit. And they know people are taking advantage of the asylum system. We also know that just because you claim asylum that you are some kind of angel. Those that claim asylum are just as capable of being a bad person as anyone else.

Yes people were accused of eating pets. Lots of people are accused of lots of things that turn out not to be true. Welcome to life. LE said it didn't happen.

That I agree with. Though there is a certain level of disdain needed to exploit people I think.

If Americans were willing to do tge work for the same money the companies would hire them. I think its money driven and not disdain for a certain group of people driven.

True enough. A fair point.

Excellent

Oh come on. You don't think the average person knows we are exploiting immigrant labor? I think that is common knowledge given how much this topic is in the news.

No I dont. People in general are often thoughtless on a great many things. People don't think about it. You've seen rhe man on the street videos and the stupid answers we get from people who dont have a clue. How many people go into a grocery store and buy a tomato and think to themselves, I'm sure glad we are exploiting illegal immigrants for this tomato.

Who needs to demand it? It is not like anyone had done anything to stop it?

No one can stop it. We citizens have no control over that, but we can demand from our legislators that something be done. Until their seats are threatened they aren't going to do anything. Thats been proven.

Indeed. You will note Trump has not demanded any increase in e-verify or any enforcement on the employment side.

Indeed. Just wish we could actually get our parties to take action in the areas we do agree on but we seem to be to gridlocked for even that simple of a task.

Why is this about Trump? You will note that neither Biden nor Obama did not either. This is NOT a partisan issue. Deporting illegals is great, but if that's all you do then it won't last. As soon as the next Democratic president gets voted in all the illegals will return.

But neither party has the spine to do whats necessary.

I dont think its gridlock. If one party put out a bill to require e-verify and the other party picked it, then it would be gridlock. We dont need some big bill with a bunch of extraneous crap in it that can be argued over. We just need a bill that says businesses have to e-verify. Thats it.

 

[BCP1928]

I think the issue is people understand that the just because you claim asylum doesn't mean your claim is legit. And they know people are taking advantage of the asylum system. We also know that just because you claim asylum that you are some kind of angel. Those that claim asylum are just as capable of being a bad person as anyone else.

Yes people were accused of eating pets. Lots of people are accused of lots of things that turn out not to be true. Welcome to life. LE said it didn't happen.

If Americans were willing to do tge work for the same money the companies would hire them. I think its money driven and not disdain for a certain group of people driven.

Excellent

No I dont. People in general are often thoughtless on a great many things. People don't think about it. You've seen rhe man on the street videos and the stupid answers we get from people who dont have a clue. How many people go into a grocery store and buy a tomato and think to themselves, I'm sure glad we are exploiting illegal immigrants for this tomato.

No one can stop it. We citizens have no control over that, but we can demand from our legislators that something be done. Until their seats are threatened they aren't going to do anything. Thats been proven.



Why is this about Trump? You will note that neither Biden nor Obama did not either. This is NOT a partisan issue. Deporting illegals is great, but if that's all you do then it won't last. As soon as the next Democratic president gets voted in all the illegals will return.

But neither party has the spine to do whats necessary.

I dont think its gridlock. If one party put out a bill to require e-verify and the other party picked it, then it would be gridlock. We dont need some big bill with a bunch of extraneous crap in it that can be argued over. We just need a bill that says businesses have to e-verify. Thats it.

And no Republican would vote for it. The neoliberal wing of the Democratic party probably wouldn't vote for it either.

 

[Belk]

I think the issue is people understand that the just because you claim asylum doesn't mean your claim is legit. And they know people are taking advantage of the asylum system. We also know that just because you claim asylum that you are some kind of angel. Those that claim asylum are just as capable of being a bad person as anyone else.

Yes people were accused of eating pets. Lots of people are accused of lots of things that turn out not to be true. Welcome to life. LE said it didn't happen.

But this is exactly my point. Of course they are not angels. They are human beings with all their foibles. They are still using the legal process and still being castigated. There is still plenty of people who will regard others with disdain for having the audacity to be a foreigner in a land that claims to welcome the huddled masses. That has always been the odd dichotomy of the US. We are the land of opportunity but you have to run the gauntlet to reach the brass ring.

If Americans were willing to do tge work for the same money the companies would hire them. I think its money driven and not disdain for a certain group of people driven.

No American is willing to work for wages below minimum unless they are in dire straights.

Excellent

No I dont. People in general are often thoughtless on a great many things. People don't think about it. You've seen rhe man on the street videos and the stupid answers we get from people who dont have a clue. How many people go into a grocery store and buy a tomato and think to themselves, I'm sure glad we are exploiting illegal immigrants for this tomato.

Man on the street videos have to do a lot of selective editing to find people so clueless.

No one can stop it. We citizens have no control over that, but we can demand from our legislators that something be done. Until their seats are threatened they aren't going to do anything. Thats been proven.



Why is this about Trump? You will note that neither Biden nor Obama did not either.

True, but Trump campaigned on this issue and has zero qualms issuing orders that he can't enforce.

This is NOT a partisan issue.

Not trying to be partisan. Simply trying to point out that even the most extreme of cases is unwilling to cross the line of banning our cheap labor on the employment side.

Deporting illegals is great, but if that's all you do then it won't last. As soon as the next Democratic president gets voted in all the illegals will return.

But neither party has the spine to do whats necessary.

Again we find ourselves in agreement.

I dont think its gridlock. If one party put out a bill to require e-verify and the other party picked it, then it would be gridlock. We dont need some big bill with a bunch of extraneous crap in it that can be argued over. We just need a bill that says businesses have to e-verify. Thats it.

But how do we get to that point? It seems to me we would need a grass roots campaign that demands two things of congress

1) Fix the existing immigration laws to streamline temporary workers needed.

2) Mandate e-verify so the #1 is effectively enforced

The problem I see is that we have gotten to such a hard line anti-immigration stance that this kind of grass roots campaign looks to be all but impossible.

 

[RileyG]

Last count there were 11 million undocumented--more lies from Trump.

Who’s keeping track?

 

[rjs330]

They are still using the legal process and still being castigated.

No, most of them are taking advantage of the system. They aren't legit. And most people have no clue if the seeker is legit or not. And since we know most aren't, its easy to believe they aren't. If we had actual faith in the system it would be different. We would know that the seekers are mostly likely legit and would accept them. We are a very welcoming people if we know people are here legally and they aren't just taking advantage of us.

There is still plenty of people who will regard others with disdain for having the audacity to be a foreigner in a land that claims to welcome the huddled masses.

Are you referring to that stupid poem that has nothing to do with our constitution and laws?

That has always been the odd dichotomy of the US. We are the land of opportunity but you have to run the gauntlet to reach the brass ring.

Are we supposed to br a countrey of laws or not? Were the laws actually created in order to allow as many people in as possible regardless? Is asking people to come legally and not dishonesty running some sort of gauntlet?

No American is willing to work for wages below minimum unless they are in dire straights.

That's not the point. I think i was pretty clear.

Man on the street videos have to do a lot of selective editing to find people so clueless.

Or maybe there are just a lot of clueless people out there. People like you and me are very politically minded and pay attention. We aren't the norm in society.

Again we find ourselves in agreement.

Yup.

The problem I see is that we have gotten to such a hard line anti-immigration stance that this kind of grass roots campaign looks to be all but impossible.

I thought we agreed that both sides are not willing to get rid of illegal immigration? You aren't really going back to the "one side doesn't want legal immigrants" again are you?

It seems you are not really willing to understand the concerns.

 

[rjs330]

Who’s keeping track?

If we really know how many there are then why wasnt Biden going after all of them? In 4 years he certainly could have gotten rid of and awful lot of them so Trump wouldn't have to.

 

[BCP1928]

If we really know how many there are then why wasnt Biden going after all of them? In 4 years he certainly could have gotten rid of and awful lot of them so Trump wouldn't have to.

E-verify has been on the books since 1996 and all but unused since then.

 

[BCP1928]

No, most of them are taking advantage of the system. They aren't legit. And most people have no clue if the seeker is legit or not. And since we know most aren't, its easy to believe they aren't. If we had actual faith in the system it would be different. We would know that the seekers are mostly likely legit and would accept them. We are a very welcoming people if we know people are here legally and they aren't just taking advantage of us.

That's why they get hearings--or were supposed to get hearings--before you deport them.

Are you referring to that stupid poem that has nothing to do with our constitution and laws?

Are we supposed to br a countrey of laws or not? Were the laws actually created in order to allow as many people in as possible regardless? Is asking people to come legally and not dishonesty running some sort of gauntlet?

That's not the point. I think i was pretty clear.

Or maybe there are just a lot of clueless people out there. People like you and me are very politically minded and pay attention. We aren't the norm in society.

Yup.

I thought we agreed that both sides are not willing to get rid of illegal immigration? You aren't really going back to the "one side doesn't want legal immigrants" again are you?

It seems you are not really willing to understand the concerns.

That was always the case. The difference is that you want to classify asylum seekers and refugees as "illegal."

 

[RileyG]

If we really know how many there are then why wasnt Biden going after all of them? In 4 years he certainly could have gotten rid of and awful lot of them so Trump wouldn't have to.

I might have issues with Trump and will openly say so, but at least he wants to give us secure borders.

 

[rjs330]

E-verify has been on the books since 1996 and all but unused since then.

Yup. Doesnt change a thing I said.

 

[RileyG]

Yup. Doesnt change a thing I said.

Amen, brother!

 

[rjs330]

That's why they get hearings--or were supposed to get hearings--before you deport them.

We also know that most dont follow through with their hearings. I want to say that most show up for the first, but then later dont.

 

[rjs330]

The difference is that you want to classify asylum seekers and refugees as "illegal."

I do?

 

[wing2000]

We also know that most dont follow through with their hearings. I want to say that most show up for the first, but then later dont.

You don't know that. Or at least that has not been the case historically.

As to your earlier question: My point is, the Trump Adminstration has not made employment enforcement a priority. And yes, prior administrations have not either. We know why that is....large sectors (hospitality, construction, etc) rely heavily on illegal immigrations. It's been decades in the making...and won't be reversed overnight.