Biden denied Communion because of his stance on abortion

[Quasiblogo]

Winkology, and let's ask Biden about how he feels about a woman's right to choose.

 

[Quasiblogo]

Joe Biden is caught in a dilemma. Morality is involved with your personal relationship with God. While ethics is concerned with your personal relationship with the world. He has chosen a narrow path. While he personally accepts the teaching of the RCC on abortion, he realizes that as a politician elected by the people at large he cannot inflict his personal religious convictions on them. It is a very difficult and very courageous stance. I applaud him for it.

Well, I instigation the deviation away from the focus on Communion. And we're going further away. I'll start a thread.

 

[zippy2006]

Them dilemmas:

Joe Biden is caught in a dilemma. Morality is involved with your personal relationship with God. While ethics is concerned with your personal relationship with the world. He has chosen a narrow path. While he personally accepts the teaching of the RCC on abortion, he realizes that as a politician elected by the people at large he cannot inflict his personal religious convictions on them. It is a very difficult and very courageous stance. I applaud him for it.

"I don't like to murder people. Oh... no... I'm not saying anything about you. No, go ahead, you can murder people! I said that I don't like to murder people. No, yeah, no, I don't like to murder people. If you like to murder people, then you can murder people. Thank you for the applause. I am very courageous."

"Please don't murder me."

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

His position has been fairly consistent. He accepts the Catholic position on abortion, but does not support legislating it. His previous support of the Hyde amendment was actually inconsistent with what he's always said his position is.

It's a moral hole you can't climb out of. Biden not only supports abortion but he wants tax payers to fund it. But he totally has a Catholic opposition to it. Trust us, even though he's doing everything he can to further the pro abortion lobby.

At some point it's clear that Biden doesnt believe in Christian teaching against abortion.

 

[usexpat97]

Of course, Trump snuggles up to godless dictators. North Korea is the single most persecuted, most difficult nation in the world to be Christian in. Otto Warmbier, an American citizen, gets killed there. No issue. But of course anyone who votes for a guy who snuggles up to Kim Jong Un like that can have communion every day of the week.

 

[zippy2006]

Of course, Trump snuggles up to godless dictators. North Korea is the single most persecuted, most difficult nation in the world to be Christian in. Otto Warmbier, an American citizen, gets killed there. No issue. But of course anyone who votes for a guy who snuggles up to Kim Jong Un like that can have communion every day of the week.

If you are confused on the score then I would be glad to clarify: voting for abortion and voting for Trump are not equivalent.

 

[usexpat97]

I'm not confused on anything. It is pretty clear exactly what it is: hypocrisy.

 

[zippy2006]

I'm not confused on anything. It is pretty clear exactly what it is: hypocrisy.

Given the fact that his opponent in the presidential race supported abortion, it's pretty much the opposite of hypocrisy.

Anyway, sorry for the logical intrusion. Go back to your anti-Trump schpeel.

 

[zippy2006]

The relevant canon is 915, which canon lawyer Ed Peters elucidates here.

Canon lawyers Ed Peters and Jay Newman concluded that this was the right move by the priest. Even left-leaning America Magazine found no reason to dissent.

Ed Peters has now published an article in First Things on the subject. It begins:

My wristwatch does not have a sweep-second hand, so I am not sure how many seconds elapsed between the announcement that a pastor in South Carolina had withheld Holy Communion from Joseph Biden and the chorus of condemnations that routinely follows such exercises of pastoral sense and good order. But it could not have been more than ten.

Even occasional displays of respect for the Eucharist, not to mention for canon law, provoke speedy denunciations. Not because the reasons behind the denunciations are obvious, let alone correct, but because these denunciations are pre-packaged, well-rehearsed, and oblivious to correction...
​

Pecknold:

Aquinas writes, in keeping with Pope Francis and the whole tradition, that “private sinners should not be denied.” In fact, he states it more strongly. He says that the baptized have a right to receive the Eucharist by virtue of their baptism, “except for some open cause.”
​

Petri:

Former Vice President Joseph Biden was denied Holy Communion at a parish in South Carolina last week due to his public support for abortion. This is apparently the policy of the bishop in South Carolina. The incident offers an opportunity to clarify what is required for a person to receive Holy Communion at a Catholic Mass.
[...]
While abortion is one of the gravest evils of our day, it’s not the only reason someone might be denied Holy Communion. A person explicitly and obstinately promoting racism would be denied Holy Communion, as happened in New Orleans in 1962.​

 

[chilehed]

The Bible does not say supporting abortion makes anyone ineligible for communion, which is the topic.

To receive the Eucharist is to affirm that one is in union with the Church, and to do that while at the same time rejecting the definitive teachings of the Church is to lie in the commission of a sacred act, thus receiving unworthily. The Bible certainly says that to do so is to bring judgement upon oneself, which is why the Church has such rules: it's for the protection of the those who would harm themselves by receiving.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Communion is only about one thing: memorializing the death of Jesus Christ for our sins.

Joe Biden's opinions about abortion are just that: opinions. He is not an abortion doctor.

What is the problem here?

 

[zippy2006]

Communion is only about one thing: memorializing the death of Jesus Christ for our sins.

Wonderful. You should write a letter to Pope Francis informing him of the Catholic Church's 2,000 year old error. It will be great to get this theological misunderstanding ironed out after 500 years of disagreement.

Also, I prefer dogs.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The Catholic church is LESS than 2,000 years old and has made a LOT of errors.

I like dogs too, just not as much as cats.

 

[zippy2006]

Sorry, 1,986 years old. Looks like you can add another error to that list you're keeping.

 

[98cwitr]

Communion is only about one thing: memorializing the death of Jesus Christ for our sins.

Joe Biden's opinions about abortion are just that: opinions. He is not an abortion doctor.

What is the problem here?

I think the RCC is basically making a statement that you cannot receive the Eucharist in good and humble conscience and support the murder of innocent children by their mothers...and they're not wrong.

 

[GodLovesCats]

You can receive Communion if you are a Christian. Biblically, nothing else matters. The RCC is against the Lord by refusing to let people do what Jesus commanded them to do. At no time did Jesus ever tell any of his disciples Communion is limited to people who strongly oppose murdering babies.

 

[98cwitr]

You can receive Communion if you are a Christian. Biblically, nothing else matters. The RCC is against the Lord by refusing to let people do what Jesus commanded them to do. At no time did Jesus ever tell any of his disciples Communion is limited to people who strongly oppose murdering babies.

Is supporting the murder of children (as the RCC would view it) a sin?

If a person is openly sinning, does the RCC, based on their tradition, have the moral and just right to refuse to grant Communion?

As a cat lover, how would you feel about a mother cat killing her kittens?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Jesus knows everyone is still a sinner after conversion to Christianity. He did not say if you support sin, it disqualifies you from taking Communion, for obvious reasons. This should be easy to understand.

 

[98cwitr]

Jesus knows everyone is still a sinner after conversion to Christianity. He did not say if you support sin, it disqualifies you from taking Communion, for obvious reasons. This should be easy to understand.

On the contrary:

Hebrews 10:26-27 New International Version (NIV)

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

1 John 3:6-9 New International Version (NIV)

6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 5:18 New International Version (NIV)

18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Nothing in that verse says we are barred from taking Communion despite being Christians. Unless it is in the Bible explicity, the RCC is wrong.