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Biblical "science" Christians no longer believe

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by theyre here, May 30, 2002.

  1. theyre here

    theyre here Supreme Skeptic

    132
    +4
    Genesis 1:16
    And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
    We no longer believe the moon is a light. We now know it reflects sunlight during the night.


    Leviticus 11:5-6
    And the coney, because he cheweth the cud , but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
    And the hare, because he cheweth the cud , but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
    We now know hares don't chew cud.


    1 Kings 7:23
    And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
    This is the popular verse that implies the Biblical value of Pi is 3. At one point in US history, ultra-religious state legislatures (Tennessee I think) actually attempted tp legislate the value of Pi to be the Biblical 3. Of course, today we know its accuracy. Also, at the time this was written, the Egyptians had a much more accurate value.


    1 Chronicles 16:30
    Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

    Psalms: 19:4-6
    Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
    Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
    His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
    These are the key versus the early Catholic church used to enforce the idea that the earth was stationary and the center of all things. We now know this isn't correct.


    Isaiah 11:12
    And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
    Among the many verses used to define the earth as rectangular and flat by early Christians. We now know this isn't correct. While the translation for the creation of the KJV edition of these passages are dubious, early Christians believed the earth was flat.


    Isaiah 34:7
    And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
    We now know unicorns are mythical beasts of the early Britons. Again, the translation of these verses referring to "Unicorns" are questionable, nonetheless, early Christians believed in unicorns (because of their mention in the Bible), but not today.


    Revelation8:10
    And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
    We now know stars are distant suns, and not simple lights that can fall from the sky.



    These are a small sampling, and not necessarily representative of all the possible passages that conflict with modern knowledge. As we mere humans learned more about our natural world and science, we modified our thinking relative to these verses.

    Since it happened before, why not again? Biologic evolution helps to define our diversity as a species, and the diversity of life on this planet. Irregardless of how it started (intelligent or not), the quantifiable evidence is equal (or greater) to that which caused the church to alter its opinion on the earth being positioned at the center of the universe. Why then, is there such resistance to change?
     
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  2. tycho

    tycho New Member

    36
    +2
    But what if the unicorns died out before the flood? We all know the entire fossil record was laid down from the flood, so there'd be no fossil record of them.

    I'm just trying to help the creationists get started. I'm really interested in hearing an explanation for the last one. Meteor = great star? If it were April 1st, maybe.
     
  3. theyre here

    theyre here Supreme Skeptic

    132
    +4
    I'm not interested in discussing the actual accuracy of these points (that's a whole other thread). Instead, these are items Christians used to believe in, until modern knowledge filled in the blanks.

    It would seem that giving up the belief that the earth is the center of the universe is much more fundamentally faith rattling than accepted biological evolution.
     
  4. LewisWildermuth

    LewisWildermuth Senior Veteran

    +118
    Christian
    Single
    No, no, no...

    Can't you see that those passages are obviously ment to be read as allegories, it's just the ones that support our current "theory" of creation that are ment to be read litteraly!
     
  5. theyre here

    theyre here Supreme Skeptic

    132
    +4
    <sarcasm>
    Ah! Thanks for clearing that up.

    I understand now.
    </sarcasm>



    ;)
     
  6. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

    +2,165
    Atheist
    The bit about Tennessee legislating PI = 3, is an Urban legend. The original "sighting" of this legend referred to Alabama.

    Here is the reference. http://www.snopes2.com/religion/pi.htm

    Tinker
     
  7. theyre here

    theyre here Supreme Skeptic

    132
    +4
    I'll have to dig up my reference, but the information I had discovered about Pi was in the early 1900's, not in the past decade.
     
  8. Ray K

    Ray K Cogito ergo sum

    885
    +4
    But it does include this statement:

    Though the claim about the Alabama state legislature is pure nonsense, it is similar to an event that happened more than a century ago. In 1897 the Indiana House of Representatives unanimously passed a measure redefining the area of a circle and the value of pi. (House Bill no. 246, introduced by Rep. Taylor I. Record.) The bill died in the state Senate.
     
  9. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

    +2,165
    Atheist
    I saw that too, Ray K.

    But at least we can lay to rest the idea that such a law ever passed.

    I would have liked snopes to post the contents of the bill. Would'a been interesting.

    God bless,
    Tinker
     
  10. theyre here

    theyre here Supreme Skeptic

    132
    +4
    It is Tennessee, perhaps 1910-1920, I'm looking for the reference material.

    Schools in Arkansas at the time used the activity in Tennessee to briefly teach Pi s 3.0.


    Anyway, the point of this thread is not the history of the value of Pi, but the manner in which aspects of Biblical beliefs have been modified by science throughout history.
     
  11. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer Supporter

    +2,165
    Atheist
    From this reference http://www.urbanlegends.com/legal/indiana_pi_bill.html we have the bill that was introduced to the Indiana house in 1897.

    According to the website, this bill means that they wanted to make PI = 3.2. This seems to agree with the text below (arg ... legalese!).

    In any case, it would not to have anything to do with the Biblical value of PI.

     
  12. Oliver

    Oliver Senior Member

    639
    +19
    Agnostic
    Married
    I found this:

    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana: It has been found that a circular area is to the square on a line equal to the quadrant of the circumference, as the area of an equilateral rectangle is to the square of one side.
    (Section I, House Bill No. 246, 1897)
     
  13. Oliver

    Oliver Senior Member

    639
    +19
    Agnostic
    Married
    oops... been too slow :)
     
  14. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,462
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    Two objections:

    1. The story about the state legislature is an urban legend. While one state did nearly pass a resolution that would have endorsed something that implied that pi was 3, it was a very different story.
    2. Allowing for significant figures (or, in this case, figure, singular), pi is, in fact, 3. It's also 3.1, or 3.14, or 3.142, or 3.1416, or 3.14159.

    "ten" is not 1.0*10^1, it's 1*10^1. "ten" times "pi" is 3*10^1.
     
  15. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,462
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    Thanks! An excellent job of tracking down something I've never read before, but I've heard about.

    This just testifies: People will take *ANYTHING* if it's free.
     
  16. theyre here

    theyre here Supreme Skeptic

    132
    +4
    Not in Tennessee. I'm still searching my records for the reference.

    In any event, this is not the point of the original post.

    The point is, throughout history, science has played a role in revealing aspects of our environment that have conflicted with accepted religious that originated out of a strict reading of Biblical passages. Beliefs changed, life went on, Christianity continued. Evolution may very well be another aspect that causes beliefs to be altered.
     
  17. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,462
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    I'm pretty sure the story is still an urban legend, even if there's a kernel of truth. Everyone else I know that's researched it eventually came back to the Indiana legislature's acceptance of "free" mathematical results.

    I do, however, agree with the basic gist of your post; people need to get used to the realization that the Bible is not, and has not been, a science textbook.
     
  18. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    I have no doubt that it will. The Catholic church has already taken some steps to incorporate evolution into the Biblical creation, and most mainstream Protestant churches have as well. In 100-200 years (maybe less) this will be a non-issue, the same way that heliocentrism and gravity are now. This is why I'm not all that interested in debating evolution vs. creation -- in the end it won't matter.

    The first step is for people to become more informed about Evolution, which is hard because of the repeated attempts to keep it out of public schools. (If not for these attempts, the creation vs. evolution wouldn't be such a big debate.)

    -Chris
     
  19. BigJon

    BigJon Insanely Huge

    71
    +1
    just a quick note.....

    4 corners of the earth is not mean the earth is a square or a rectangle rather the 4 corners would be North, South, East and West.
     
  20. RufusAtticus

    RufusAtticus PopGen Grad Student

    +9
    No, those are directions. Look at a globe. Does it have any corners?
     
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