Biblical "science" Christians no longer believe

[Satoshi]

Originally posted by BigJon
just a quick note.....

4 corners of the earth is not mean the earth is a square or a rectangle rather the 4 corners would be North, South, East and West.

Then why not say the four cardinal directions? It avoids any unfortunate misconceptions.

 

[Ray K]

Originally posted by BigJon
just a quick note.....

4 corners of the earth is not mean the earth is a square or a rectangle rather the 4 corners would be North, South, East and West.

"Four corners" implies a flat surface to me. If I hear of something having "four corners", I think of two things: it is flat and it is rectangular.

North, South, East and West do not enter into the picture.

 

[theyre here]

Originally posted by BigJon
4 corners of the earth is not mean the earth is a square or a rectangle rather the 4 corners would be North, South, East and West.

Did the original author have any idea of cartogrophy?

In any event... posters continue to miss the point. I'm not interested in debating the attributes of these passages. These verses have contributed to false assumptions about the nature of our known world. As science filled in the blanks, we now say "this verse probably means N, S, E, W." But early Christians used this verse (among others) to assume the earth was flat.

 

[seebs]

Exactly! Once upon a time, geologists thought that they'd found evidence for the flood. Eventually, they were pretty much forced to abandon that - and it wasn't until some time later that they came up with a new explanation. There was a wonderful speech given in 1831 in which one of the primary supporters of the Flood theory admitted that the evidence they'd been using could not be seen as evidence for the Flood. He still believed the Flood happened - he just believed there was no evidence yet discovered for it.

A genuinely honest man, willing to admit that he had data with no theory, and a theory with no data, but that, in fact, they did not meet.

 

[AV1611VET]

Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
We no longer believe the moon is a light. We now know it reflects sunlight during the night.

It's called 'moonlight'.

Leviticus 11:5-6
And the coney, because he cheweth the cud , but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
And the hare, because he cheweth the cud , but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
We now know hares don't chew cud.

And if a species used to?

1 Kings 7:23
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
This is the popular verse that implies the Biblical value of Pi is 3. At one point in US history, ultra-religious state legislatures (Tennessee I think) actually attempted tp legislate the value of Pi to be the Biblical 3. Of course, today we know its accuracy. Also, at the time this was written, the Egyptians had a much more accurate value.

1

1 Chronicles 16:30
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalms: 19:4-6
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
These are the key versus the early Catholic church used to enforce the idea that the earth was stationary and the center of all things. We now know this isn't correct.

So?

What did scientists use to enforce the idea?

Let me guess -- empirical data -- right?

Isaiah 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Among the many verses used to define the earth as rectangular and flat by early Christians. We now know this isn't correct. While the translation for the creation of the KJV edition of these passages are dubious, early Christians believed the earth was flat.

And early scientists believed the earth was flat as well -- right?

Isaiah 34:7
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
We now know unicorns are mythical beasts of the early Britons. Again, the translation of these verses referring to "Unicorns" are questionable, nonetheless, early Christians believed in unicorns (because of their mention in the Bible), but not today.

1

Revelation8:10
And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
We now know stars are distant suns, and not simple lights that can fall from the sky.

A star is more than just a distant sun.

The wise men followed a star, but it was, in my opinion, a hologram.

These are a small sampling, and not necessarily representative of all the possible passages that conflict with modern knowledge.

Then 'modern knowledge' can take a hike.

 

[kiwimac]

Aarrgh, Zombie thread is alive! >runs<

 

[sandwiches]

Then 'modern knowledge' can take a hike.

Your special pleading can take a hike, broski.

 

[BananaSlug]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the one where if you breed goats in front of stripped branches, they have speckled offspring.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
We no longer believe the moon is a light. We now know it reflects sunlight during the night.

LOL.

According to atheism, the moon cannot possibly reflect light because the Bible says it can.

Leviticus 11:5-6
And the coney, because he cheweth the cud , but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
And the hare, because he cheweth the cud , but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
We now know hares don't chew cud.

LOL.

According to atheism, hares don't have jaws to chew with because the Bible says they do.

1 Kings 7:23
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
This is the popular verse that implies the Biblical value of Pi is 3. At one point in US history, ultra-religious state legislatures (Tennessee I think) actually attempted tp legislate the value of Pi to be the Biblical 3. Of course, today we know its accuracy. Also, at the time this was written, the Egyptians had a much more accurate value.

LOL.

According to atheism, 3 is nowhere near the value of pi and Egypt does not exist because it is in the Bible.

1 Chronicles 16:30
Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalms: 19:4-6
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
These are the key versus the early Catholic church used to enforce the idea that the earth was stationary and the center of all things. We now know this isn't correct.

LOL.

According to atheism, it is impossible for planetary orbits to change or evolve over time.

Of course, anyone who has actually read the Bible (obviously not you) knows that the Hebrews had a heliocentric model of the solar system.

"And he [Methuselah] was moreover with the angels of God these six jubilees of years, and they showed him everything which is on the earth and in the heavens, the rule of the sun, and he wrote down everything." -- Jubilees 4:21-22

Isaiah 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Among the many verses used to define the earth as rectangular and flat by early Christians. We now know this isn't correct. While the translation for the creation of the KJV edition of these passages are dubious, early Christians believed the earth was flat.

LOL.

Atheists don't realize that Christians didn't exist at the time Isaiah was written. However, everyone who has actually read the Bible (obviously not you) knows the Earth is a sphere.

"He [God] stretcheth out the north over the empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." -- Job 26:7

"He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end." -- Job 26:10

"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits." -- Ecclesiastes 1:6

Isaiah 34:7
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
We now know unicorns are mythical beasts of the early Britons. Again, the translation of these verses referring to "Unicorns" are questionable, nonetheless, early Christians believed in unicorns (because of their mention in the Bible), but not today.

LOL.

Unicorns are a known fact that any child can observe in the zoo.

Of course, atheists don't believe in observation or the scientific method.

'Unicorn' deer is found in Italian nature preserve - Technology & science - Science - msnbc.com

"This is fantasy becoming reality," Gilberto Tozzi, director of the Center of Natural Sciences in Prato, told The Associated Press. "The unicorn has always been a mythological animal."

Revelation8:10
And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
We now know stars are distant suns, and not simple lights that can fall from the sky.

LOL.

That's because atheists don't believe in shooting stars or meteorites because the Bible says they exist.

"Stones cannot fall from the sky because there are no stones in the sky!" -- Antoine L. Lavoisier, chemist, 1790

"Gentlemen, I would rather believe that two Yankee professors would lie than believe that stones fall from heaven." -- Thomas Jefferson, revolutionary, 1807

 

[BananaSlug]

 

[sandwiches]

Poor AoS. He lives in an alternate universe where all atheists reject EVERYTHING the Bible says and then tries to convince us that planets are gods.

 

[BananaSlug]

Humans don't exist because the Bible says they do!

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Poor AoS. He lives in an alternate universe where all atheists reject EVERYTHING the Bible says and then tries to convince us that planets are gods.

It's a known fact the planets are gods. It's not necessary to convince any sane person of this.

"Indeed, astronomy was closely linked with their [Maya] religion. The Sun, Moon, and planets were their gods." -- Michael Guillen, physicist, The Ancient Maya: The Tools of Astronomy, The History Channel, 2010

"... 'Star of Horus, Foremost of the Sky' (in the Pyramid Texts, Horus was called the 'Morning Star')." -- Robert G. Bauval, author, The Egypt Code, 2008

"A perusal of nearly any ancient pantheon reveals the obvious: At least some of the gods, often the most important ones, are objects in the sky." -- Edwin C. Krupp, archaeoastronomer, Echoes of the Ancient Sky: The Astronomy of Lost Civilizations, 2003

"As in ancient Mesopotamia, China, India, Greece, and Italy, astronomical gods form the core of the pre-Columbian pantheon. Mesoamerican societies saw the heavenly bodies as gods who influenced their fate and controlled what happened on earth." -- Dick Teresi, author, Lost Discoveries, 2002

"In most ancient cultures in which sky observations were important, astronomers served also as priests." -- Dick Teresi, Lost Discoveries, author, 2002

"So great was the ancients reliance on the sun and the moon that they deified them." -- Anthony F. Aveni, archaeoastronomer, Sky Watchers, 2001

"Like the ancient Greeks, Romans, Hindus, Chinese, Mesopotamians, and Egyptians, the Maya believed that the celestial luminaries were gods who influenced human destiny and controlled events on earth." -- Susan Milbrath, archaeoastronomer, Star Gods of the Maya, 1999

"Astronomical gods form the core of the Precolumbian pantheon." -- Susan Milbrath, archaeoastronomer, Star Gods of the Maya, 1999

"Athena and Aphrodite were both planet Venus deities." -- Charles Ginenthal, historian, 1995

"On the mythological front, it was not long before I had to accept that the deities of the ancient nations originated as personifications of cosmic bodies, prime among which were the very planets of the solar system. It did not take Velikovsky, or any of his precursors, to convince me of this. The ancients, who were in the best position to know what they themselves believed in, so stated in many of their texts. It therefore struck me as strange that most modern mythologists would go to such great pains in attempting to explain mythological characters and themes in anything but cosmic terms." -- Dwardu Cardona, author, December 1988

"... it is not the 'beliefs' and 'religions' which circle around and fight eachother restlessly; what changes is the celestial situation." -- Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha Von Dechend, polymaths, 1969

"Are you so impressed also by the planet Jupiter that you would regard it as a chief deity above Sun and Moon? And they worshipped those planets, those gods, in the planets themselves. They were lifting their hands, the Babylonians and the Indians, Hindu, and the Chinese, all, they were lifting their hands to those planets in worshipping them. And human sacrifice were brought to them. Even into recent times, among the American Indians, in the last century still, human sacrifice were brought to the planet Venus." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, polymath, 1966

"I ask again and again why the ancients worshipped planetary gods." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, polymath, 1966

"The Babylonians were planet worshippers." -- Drusilla D. Houston, historian, Wonderful Ethiopians of the Ancient Cu[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]e Empire, Chapter XIII: The Civilization of Babylonia, 1926

"'The planet Saturn is Shamash.'" -- Morris Jastrow Jr., historian, Sun and Saturn, 1910

"The great temple [of Babylon] was the symbolization of Babylonian mythology. The seven platforms were dedicated to the seven planets." -- John C. Ridpath, historian, History of the World, 1894

"It is not easy to understand the idea which was the basis for the identification of the Babylonian gods with the planets." -- Peter Jensen, author, 1890

"The sun, moon and stars, were such noble and glorious bodies, and so visible, so remarkable, so useful [to all] parts of the world; and the heathen nations so generally doted on the worship of them...." -- William Whiston, mathematician, 1737

"I take the sharing of the kingdom of Hyperion among his brothers the Titans, to be the division of the earth among the gods mentioned in the poem of Solon." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, Revised History of Ancient Kingdoms: A Complete Chronology, 1727

"He [Thales] held the sun and the planets for Gods. And in the same sense Pythagoras, on account of it immense force of attraction, said that the Sun was a prison of Zeus, that is, a body possessed of the greatest circuits." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1690

"In the life of Manco Capac, who was the first Inca, and from whom they began to boast themselves children of the Sun and from whom they derived their idolatrous worship of the Sun, they had an ample account of the deluge." -- Cristóbal de Molina, priest, 1572

"The last fell to the lot of Cronos [Saturn] the seventh planet. Such he made this seat; having founded the sacred city, he called it by the name of Thebes in Egypt...." -- Nonnus, poet, Dionysiaca, Book V, 5th century

"But possibly these stars which have been called by their names are these gods. They call a certain star Mercury, and likewise a certain other star Mars. But among those stars which are called by the name of gods, is that one which they call Jupiter, and yet with them Jupiter is the world. There also is that one they call Saturn, and yet they give him no small property beside, namely all seeds." -- Augustine, theologian, City of God, 426

"Another of his [Pythagoras's] theories was ... that the sun, and the moon, and the stars, were all Gods...." -- Diogenes Laertius, historian, 3rd century

"... and yet the King of Gods, the first and eldest one, is in bonds [rings], they say, if we are to believe Hesiod and Homer and other wise men who tell this tale about Cronus [Saturn]...." -- Dio Crysostom, philosopher, 1st century

"To come now to our subject: atheism, which is a sorry judgement that there is nothing blessed or incorruptible, seems, by disbelief in the Divinity, to lead finally to a kind of utter indifference, and the end which it achieves in not believing in the existence of gods is not to fear them." -- Plutarch, historian, On Superstition, 1st century

"I regard Serapis as foreign, but Osiris [Saturn] as Greek, and both as belonging to one god and one power. Like these also are the Egyptian beliefs; for they oftentimes call Isis [Venus] by the name of Athena...." -- Plutarch, historian, Isis and Osiris, 61-62, 1st century

"... the shrine of Minerva [Venus] at Sais (whom they consider the same with Isis) ..." -- Plutarch, historian, 1st century

"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we in him." -- 1 Corinthians 8:5-6

"Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch [Saturn], and the star of your god Remphan [Saturn], figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon." -- Acts 7:43

"In the middle of the city, she [Semiramis] built a temple to Jupiter, whom the Babylonians call Belus, (as we have before said), ... it is apparent that it was of an exceeding great height, and that by the advantage of it, the Chaldean astrologers exactly observed the setting and rising of the stars." -- Diodorus Siculus, The Library, Book II, 1st century B.C.

"... there were the brazen statues of Ninus and Semiramis, the great officers, and of Jupiter, whom the Babylonians call Belus...." -- Diodorus Siculus, The Library, Book II, 1st century B.C.

"There was in their city [Carthage] a bronze image of Cronus [Saturn], extending his hands, palms up and sloping toward the ground, so that each of the children when placed thereon rolled down and fell into a sort of gaping pit with fire. ... Also the story passed down among the Greeks from ancient myth that Cronus [Saturn] did away with his own children appears to have been kept in mind among the Carthaginians through this observance." -- Diodorus Siculus, historian, Library of History, Book XX, 1st century B.C.

"And since they [Chaldeans] have observed the stars over a long period of time and have noted both the movements and the influences of each of them with greater precision than any other men, they foretell to mankind many things that will take place in the future. But above all importance, they say, is the study of the influence of the five stars known as planets, which they call 'Interpreters' when speaking of them as a group, but if referring to them singly, the one named Cronus [Saturn] by the Greeks, which is the most conspicuous and presages more events and such as are of greater importance than the others, they call the star of Helius, whereas the other four they designate as the stars of Ares [Mars], Aphrodite [Venus], Hermes [Mercury], and Zeus [Jupiter], as do our astrologers." -- Diodorus Siculus, historian, Library of History, Book II, 1st century B.C.

"Since the stars come into existence in the aether, it is reasonable that they possess sensation and intelligence. And from this it follows that the stars are to be reckoned as gods. For it may be observed that the inhabitants of those countries in which the air is pure and rarefied have keener wits and greater powers of understanding than persons who live an a dense and heavy climate.... It is therefore likely that the stars possess surpassing intelligence, since they inhabit the ethereal region of the world. Again, the consciousness and intelligence of the stars is most clearly evinced by their order and regularity ... the stars move of their own free will and because of their intelligence and divinity.... Not yet can it be said that some stronger force compels the heavenly bodies to travel in a manner contrary to their nature, for what stronger force can there be? It remains therefore that the motion of the heavenly bodies is voluntary...Therefore the existence of the gods is so manifest that I can scarcely deem one who denies it to be of sound mind." -- Marcus T. Cicero, philosopher, 1st century B.C.

"Hades [Pluto] trembled where he rules over the dead below, and the Titans under Tartarus who live with Cronos [Saturn] ...." -- Hesiod, poet, Theogony, 8th century B.C.

"So he [Mars] spoke, and ordered Deimos and Phobos to harness." -- Homeros, poet, Iliad, XV:119, 8th century B.C.

"This is the way it is fated to be; and for you and your anger
I [Jupiter] care not; not if you stray apart to the undermost limits
of earth and sea, where Iapetos and Kronos [Saturn] seated
have no shining of the sun god Hyperion to delight them
nor winds delight, but Tartaros stands deeply about them."
-- Homeros, poet, Iliad, VIII:477-481, 8th century B.C.

"For if the Olympian who handles the lightning [Jupiter] should be minded
to hurl us [planets] out of our places, he is far too strong for any."
-- Homer, poet, Iliad, I:580-581

 

[BananaSlug]

So are you saying we should pray to Mars? Or should we pray to Jupiter? I seriously have a hard time, even with some of the things some creationists believe, that anybody can believe this bunk. I am fearful if we have people like this walking around in the general population.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

So are you saying we should pray to Mars? Or should we pray to Jupiter?

You believe in Roman gods now?

"And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided under the whole heaven." -- Deuteronomy 4:19

"And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth." -- Jeremiah 8:2