Biblical Creationism and Self Deceit

[Givemeareason]

Varies. Seeing as how there are biblical creationists then they would say the way the Bible specifies. seeing as how there are creationists that are not Bible believers it would vary. This isn't a you get to ask all the questions and answer none thread. Make your next one good because after that third one it will be your turn to answer some.

I will answer as it it pertains to this thread. Let's start with a simple question. If a crime were committed and you wanted to determine who did it, would you arrest someone and then drum up evidence to support it or would you first look look for the evidence and then try to determine who did it. I propose that Creationism does the first approach and that science does the second. If you start out with the conclusion you can always find evidence. Doesn't Creationism work that way?

 

[JustHisKid]

I will answer as it it pertains to this thread. Let's start with a simple question. If a crime were committed and you wanted to determine who did it, would you arrest someone and then drum up evidence to support it or would you first look look for the evidence and then try to determine who did it. I propose that Creationism does the first approach and that science does the second. If you start out with the conclusion you can always find evidence. Doesn't Creationism work that way?

Evolution certainly does.

 

[KarjamP]

You are still there. being human is not an excuse so we can excuse our sin. Even now you have been actively campaigning to have Christians in this thread stop defending the YEC viewpoint so that we can get back to the subject of the thread (as if it isn't the subject) in bashing YEC believers.

Of course I don't know but this is having a feel of sock puppet account. I've seen people do this before. Pretend to be Christian and make some outrageously stern hypocritical arguments against other believers.

I was just noting my own sin. I wasn't trying to excuse it. There's a difference.

If I'm a sock puppet account, then who am I a sock puppet of? Think before you make accusations like that. And yes, I'm a Christian.

I know that the topic of this thread can be seen as anti-YEC, but that wasn't the reason why I wanted to get back on-topic. The actual reason was because our arguments were becoming too heated to the point that your arrogant attitude against those who are anti-YEC was becoming more and more obvious.

I respect your beliefs, and I respect the beliefs of "Givemeareason". You should do the same as well even though the topic of this thread's about those who believe in YEC deceiving themselves. Give him a reason why you're not, but please. Don't do so via trying to prove YEC is true and evolution false as we did when we're arguing. This is a very controversial subject. Thus, it's very tempting to get into a heated argument. This is something I've learned through both hard way and the easy way.

 

[SteveB28]

Evolution certainly does.

Do you mean the process of evolution, or evolutionary theory? Either way, you need to present some evidence for such a preposterous charge.

If you don't, you have ironically just demonstrated that which your correspondent was just outlining!

 

[JustHisKid]

I was just noting my own sin. I wasn't trying to excuse it. There's a difference.

If I'm a sock puppet account, then who am I a sock puppet of? Think before you make accusations like that. And yes, I'm a Christian.

I know that the topic of this thread can be seen as anti-YEC, but that wasn't the reason why I wanted to get back on-topic. The actual reason was because our arguments were becoming too heated to the point that your arrogant attitude against those who are anti-YEC was becoming more and more obvious.

I respect your beliefs, and I respect the beliefs of "Givemeareason". You should do the same as well even though the topic of this thread's about those who believe in YEC deceiving themselves. Give him a reason why you're not, but please. Don't do so via trying to prove YEC is true and evolution false as we did when we're arguing. This is a very controversial subject. Thus, it's very tempting to get into a heated argument. This is something I've learned through both hard way and the easy way.

You can treat others with respect without respecting what they believe. Why would a Christian respect belief in a lie. It makes no sense.

 

[MikeEnders]

I respect your beliefs, and I respect the beliefs of "Givemeareason". You should do the same as well

In any other thread you might have made seem sense there but this thread is entirely about disrespecting YECs which is why your pontifications on the virtue of respect remain hypocritical. You only got upset and worried about things getting heated when the heat started to blow back the other way and you were being called upon to answer points rather than make accusations.

 

[KarjamP]

You can treat others with respect without respecting what they believe. Why would a Christian respect belief in a lie. It makes no sense.

Because a Christian is supposed to love others. They obviously can't do so if they openly bash other people's beliefs.

 

[JustHisKid]

Do you mean the process of evolution, or evolutionary theory? Either way, you need to present some evidence for such a preposterous charge.

If you don't, you have ironically just demonstrated that which your correspondent was just outlining!

A preposterous charge like people who believe in creation start with a theory and go backward? Like that?

 

[JustHisKid]

Because a Christian is supposed to love others. They obviously can't do so if they openly bash other people's beliefs.

Treating people with respect is much different from respecting a person's belief in a lie.

 

[KarjamP]

In any other thread you might have made seem sense there but this thread is entirely about disrespecting YECs which is why your pontifications on the virtue of respect remain hypocritical. You only got upset and worried about things getting heated when the heat started to blow back the other way and you were being called upon to answer points rather than make accusations.

You obviously don't know me as well as you think. Heck, this thread, constitutes most of my posts simply because I never before, frequented this forum.

This isn't the only time I got myself in a heated argument with somebody else online, although it's the first time it happened when it comes to the topic of evolution simply because I hated arguing about it with those who didn't share my beliefs.

Also, do you honestly believe "Givemeareason" is disrespecting YECs when he says that they're deceiving themselves? Attacking their beliefs, yes, but not once, did I see him attack those who believe in Young Earth Creationism. Defend himself, from accusations, yes. Asking questions about other people's beliefs, yes, but not disrespecting the people, themselves.

 

[Givemeareason]

Evolution certainly does.

I am convinced that responses like this indicate you have no idea what evolution is. I think evolutionist has come to mean just about anyone who has anything to say about science anymore that is not confirmed and supported by the bible.

 

[Hakan101]

I will answer as it it pertains to this thread. Let's start with a simple question. If a crime were committed and you wanted to determine who did it, would you arrest someone and then drum up evidence to support it or would you first look look for the evidence and then try to determine who did it. I propose that Creationism does the first approach and that science does the second. If you start out with the conclusion you can always find evidence. Doesn't Creationism work that way?

That analogy doesn't really apply to Creationism, since the conclusion is already given to us. God tells us what happened in His Word and so assuming it's true we have to find evidence now to understand it. It's not so much like someone committed a crime and we have to figure out who did it, it's more like how they did it.

A more accurate way to portray your stance, using this analogy, was that a crime was not even committed, it's actually a performance art piece meant to look like a crime.

Also just to be clear are you talking about Creationism in general or just Young Earth Creationism? Cause as I said way back the only part of the Creation story I think was errant was the YE concept. The creation story is simple in its description but so are many things in the Bible, when pertaining to science. Noah's flood is another one, and the biggest conundrum of all is Jesus' resurrection. If you can believe that Jesus rose from the dead, why not believe the Creation story? (I know it says you're agnostic but I am speaking from the viewpoint of a Christian).

 

[JustHisKid]

I am convinced that responses like this indicate you have no idea what evolution is. I think evolutionist has come to mean just about anyone who has anything to say about science anymore that is not confirmed and supported by the bible.

Macro-evolution cannot be observed. Believers started with a theory and tried to compile evidence to support it and have failed miserably, much like you claim creationists have done.

 

[KarjamP]

Treating people with respect is much different from respecting a person's belief in a lie.

Well, you obviously can't say "you're going to hell as you're not a Christian" now, can you?

I think you're misunderstanding what I meant. I meant Christians aren't supposed to attack other people's beliefs simply because they disagree with their beliefs. That's what I meant.

 

[JustHisKid]

Well, you obviously can't say "you're going to hell as you're not a Christian" now, can you?

You can and you should. Do you not care where they are headed?

 

[KarjamP]

Also just to be clear are you talking about Creationism in general or just Young Earth Creationism? Cause as I said way back the only part of the Creation story I think was errant was the YE concept. The creation story is simple in its description but so are many things in the Bible, when pertaining to science. Noah's flood is another one, and the biggest conundrum of all is Jesus' resurrection. If you can believe that Jesus rose from the dead, why not believe the Creation story? (I know it says you're agnostic but I am speaking from the viewpoint of a Christian).

For some reason, he apparently thinks that the term "Creationism" is synonymous for "Young Earth Creationism".

He's not against Old Earth Creationism, one of its two mutual opposites.

 

[Givemeareason]

That analogy doesn't really apply to Creationism, since the conclusion is already given to us. God tells us what happened in His Word and so assuming it's true we have to find evidence now to understand it. It's not so much like someone committed a crime and we have to figure out who did it, it's more like how they did it.

A more accurate way to portray your stance, using this analogy, was that a crime was not even committed, it's actually a performance art piece meant to look like a crime.

Also just to be clear are you talking about Creationism in general or just Young Earth Creationism? Cause as I said way back the only part of the Creation story I think was errant was the YE concept. The creation story is simple in its description but so are many things in the Bible, when pertaining to science. Noah's flood is another one, and the biggest conundrum of all is Jesus' resurrection. If you can believe that Jesus rose from the dead, why not believe the Creation story? (I know it says you're agnostic but I am speaking from the viewpoint of a Christian).

If Creationism wants to represent itself as science which it clearly does, then the analogy most definitely applies. We are talking science here, not Christianity.

 

[KarjamP]

You can and you should. Do you not care where they are headed?

And then you'd get slapped in the face.

There's a reason why you don't just go ahead and say that, bub. People are, in general, way too stubbornness for that simple sentence to convince them to repent.

 

[JustHisKid]

For some reason, he apparently thinks that the term "Creationism" is synonymous for "Young Earth Creationism".

He's not against Old Earth Creationism, one of its two mutual opposites.

A God who can actually create a universe certainly can create it in any time frame He sees fit.

 

[JustHisKid]

And then you'd get slapped in the face.

Like Jesus did? A servant is not greater than his master.

There's a reason why you don't just go ahead and say that, bub. People are, in general, way too stubbornness for that simple sentence to convince them to repent.

There may be a reason you don't say that, bub, but they need to hear it. Some people will honestly not care, however.