Biblical basis for Sunday observance

[wopik]

What Biblical basis is there for Sunday Observance, besides a group of people collecting and sending food to the starving Saints in Jerusalem "on the first day of the week" ?

1 Corinthians 16: 1-2 / Romans 15: 25-28


OR -----------

the women visiting a tomb "on the first day of the week"


OR ------------

A Saturday evening gathering together for a fellowship meal, where Paul spoke to the people, and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day, Sunday ? (Acts 20:7)

If every time a body of believers meet on a day and a preacher preaches a sermon, and that makes the day holy, there would be numerous Sabbath/holy days.

Some churches hold Sunday evening meetings and meetings on Wednesday evenings. But neither of these is sacred beyond the act of worship itself.

 

[billwald]

I believe that Sunday was the normal day off for slaves.

 

[AngelusSax]

I heard that the reason Christians meet on Sundays (most Christians, anyway), is that, after the Resurrection, the followers of Christ met on weekly anniversaries of His resurrection... and He was raised on Sunday. And, well.... it kinda stuck.

I don't know how accurate that is, but it's what I heard once before.

 

[stranger]

Sunday was instigated as the day of rest by the emperor of Rome because that is the day that Romans were used to worshipping their [main] sun god upon and it made the transition to state 'christianity' rather easier for the Roamn people...

The holy sabbath of God is celebrated at a completely different time, not even a roman day, not even 24 hrs.... from sunset in Jerusalem on the day we now call 'Friday' through to the next sunset, as kept by Jesus and the apostles and still kept by Jews in Jerusalem [although Judaism has invented its own apostate time-keeping too since the time of Christ] ...and the same absolute time worldwide - EVERYONE celebrates sabbath of God TOGETHER worldwide because God never prescribed any inconsistent timezones for time as is the modern standard used by men ...

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

It is my understanding that Jewish Christians observed the Sabbath on Saturday with their fellow Jews and met on Sunday only with Christians. When the Jews expelled Christians from their communities, they continued meeting with their fellow Christians on Sunday.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

What's this doing in Liberal Theology? I'm fed up with this area being the dumping ground for all sorts of threads. This should be in general theology or somewhere.

 

[Crazy Liz]

What's this doing in Liberal Theology? I'm fed up with this area being the dumping ground for all sorts of threads. This should be in general theology or somewhere.

Karl, Wopik doesn't display a faith icon and doesn't post in CO forums. I assume he/she is not permitted to by the forum rules. Probably decided to post here instead of Questions by Non-Christians because he/she wanted to debate. Maybe Unorthodox Theology would have been better.

 

[stranger]

[fragmentsofdreams ] "It is my understanding that Jewish Christians observed the Sabbath on Saturday with their fellow Jews"

Jesus was a Jew and kept the, thus christian sabbath on the seventh HEBREW day wich is NOT Saturday but starts at sunset Jerusalem on what you now call 'Friday' ,but at that time for everyone in the world simultaneously [so that it is not even 'Friday' in some parts of the world according to the modern inconsistent international system of dates and times] ...

God's time-keeping defined for men was, and thus is, absolute ... there are no timezones ,no different times at different places... no Saturday or Sunday that are on the earth for TWO days ...

think upon it, do you really believe taht by crossing the dateline at the end of Sunday in the west that you can have two days of sabbath, or by going the other way that there is no sabbath in that week?

The all-too-human system that is INTERNATIONAL timekeeping is actually that crazy! It certainly is no way to be able to keep God's holy days of the scripture...

Consider more carefully the facts about time and the prophecies of God about who will try to change the truth:

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times .....

 

[Crazy Liz]

Jesus was a Jew and kept the, thus christian sabbath on the seventh HEBREW day wich is NOT Saturday but starts at sunset Jerusalem on what you now call 'Friday' ,but at that time for everyone in the world simultaneously [so that it is not even 'Friday' in some parts of the world according to the modern inconsistent international system of dates and times] ...

God's time-keeping defined for men was, and thus is, absolute ... there are no timezones ,no different times at different places... no Saturday or Sunday that are on the earth for TWO days ...

think upon it, do you really believe taht by crossing the dateline at the end of Sunday in the west that you can have two days of sabbath, or by going the other way that there is no sabbath in that week?

Did the Diaspora Jews look at it that way?

When was your idea first invented?

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Jesus was a Jew and kept the, thus christian sabbath on the seventh HEBREW day wich is NOT Saturday but starts at sunset Jerusalem on what you now call 'Friday' ,but at that time for everyone in the world simultaneously [so that it is not even 'Friday' in some parts of the world according to the modern inconsistent international system of dates and times] ...

God's time-keeping defined for men was, and thus is, absolute ... there are no timezones ,no different times at different places... no Saturday or Sunday that are on the earth for TWO days ...

think upon it, do you really believe taht by crossing the dateline at the end of Sunday in the west that you can have two days of sabbath, or by going the other way that there is no sabbath in that week?

The all-too-human system that is INTERNATIONAL timekeeping is actually that crazy! It certainly is no way to be able to keep God's holy days of the scripture...

Consider more carefully the facts about time and the prophecies of God about who will try to change the truth:

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times .....

Since the Hebrews were not expert astronomers and timekeepers, I doubt that Jews living outside of Palestine would have been aware of the different times of sunset around the world, let alone compensate for it in their Sabbath observance. It is far more likely that they would simply use the local sunlight as a guide.

However, this is largely irrelevant because Christians do not have to be Jews and follow the Jewish Law. The Biblical basis for this is quite strong.

 

[stranger]

[CrazyLiz] "When was your idea first invented?"

It ain't my idea, it's God's very specific scriptural way of keeping time from the beginning

The 'International Standard' was only invented some 300 odd years ago and is eveb mathematically inconsistent [causing severe ,even religious, problems for many, especially those bizarrel religiously forbidden to cross the dateline for 2 days per week so that they can't have two or no sabbaths per week ... but also they cannot visit their kin on the other side of an arbitrary line at weekends ... sheer nonsense intaegral to the international system but not in God's original system!

It is no accident that God defined that the evening comes BEFORE the morning in the day... this is not what we are used to by our standards from Roman pagan TRADITION ,but God said that this is the way to keep holy days, defining what a day is from the beginning:
Gen 1:5 ... And the evening and the morning were the first day.

For explicit example:

Leviticus 23:32 .... from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

As for the knowledge of calculating time of Herusalem sunset around the globe, God made that available to man long before the time of Jesus the man and spread of the gospel to reach the House of Israel as Jesus said:

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

and the House of Judah did not stray more than an hour's difference from accurate sabbath-keeping before then [an 'hour' was the very finest accuracy to which time was kept at that time]

The non-Jewish part of Israel, the "lost sheep" of the House of Israel to whom God sent Jesus' gospel message through the remanat of the Jews whom God gave to Jesus as apostles to do the job and sent them forth:

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

, this House of Israel once had its own King, but God scattered them, the NON-Jewish MAJORITY of Israel, amongst gentile nations so that they lost their religion, the scripture says that God gave them up to worship other gods, and ceased to have their national identity, being absorbed into pagan gentile nations... they became gentiles to all but God... but God also promised to one day re-unite the old non-Jewish part of Israel with the smaller Jewish part and these would be the sons of God spoken of in the NT:

Hosea 1:10 ....and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. {in…: or, instead of that}
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Specifically there are 12 o the 14 tribes of Israel [Jacob adopted Ephraim and Manasseh , his grandsons as full sons and thus tribes of Israel, and Joseph had other sons to, the tribe of Joseph]

Thus by the time that the message was sent out to the scattered House of Israel, the knowledge was available to calculate sunse Jerusalem accurately enough and the spread of the Roman Empire paradoxically also spread the means of keeping holy days, the public sun-dial , ahtad of the spread of the gospel ...

Jesus confirmed that the Jews in the Holy Land were indeed keeping the true weekly and annual sabbaths by keeping them himself and also underlined that the savvaths were made by God for mankind ... a blessing from the beginning, quite completely independent of Israel's being commanded by God to KEEP them [sabbath existed LONG BEFORE the old covenant which is only about KEEPING God's holy days that already existed as a blessing to all that choose voluntarily to keep them ... and that is for ALL time ... the sabbaths are mentioned several times in prophecy of the FUTURE too!] :

Gen2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it

So God has NEVER defined time in arvbitrary unnatural 'timezones' ,which is inconsistent and only recently invented by mankind [under Satan] ... we can however see that even this corruption ,denying mankind the nlessing of god's holy sabbaths defined in scripture, is prophesied by God through Daniel:

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times ....

 

[stranger]

[frahmentsofdreams] "Since the Hebrews were not expert astronomers and timekeepers, I doubt that Jews living outside of Palestine would have been aware of the different times of sunset around the world, let alone compensate for it in their Sabbath observance. It is far more likely that they would simply use the local sunlight as a guide.

However, this is largely irrelevant because Christians do not have to be Jews and follow the Jewish Law. The Biblical basis for this is quite strong."

See abone post, there was no need for any correction from local sunset ... even as far away as Egypt and Babylon the correction was only about an hour and time simply was never kept to greater accuracy than this at the time....

But by the time that the gospel was sent forth to the House of Israel by Jesus through his Jewish disciples the info and means to measure the time of sunset Jerusalem were available...

Also note that the law for Israel was not simply for the Jews, but also for the non-Jewish House of Israel , but that the law was simply to KEEP the holy sabbaths [that is why we know when they actually are and that they are not kept by modern christain churches who keep ROMAN days, not the days that God detined for the Hebrews .... days defined by God as starting at sunset but sunset does not define a time unless one specifies WHERE ... Jesus showed us that sunset Jerusalem is [close enough to] the right place to take time from sunset ...

One cannot use local sunset also simply because local sunset does NOT occur everywhere in the world, nor in space for that matter, so sabbath would not be defined for many people if it were defined that way .. so clearly it is not defined that way by both these demonstarations that that is inconsistent [there is another, keeping local sunset requires a dateline to be defined, God never defined one! ]

As for HAVING to KEEP sabbath, that was indeed commanded to Israel, but the blessing of sabbath defined in Gen 2:3 is UNCONDITIONAL and for ALL men... yjere is nothing to stop men from keeping holy sabbaths - IF they know when they are - and receiving the blessing laced by God on His holy day long before getting Israel to agree to KEEP them ...


Remember too Jesus' statement i Rev 7:3-8, that there are only 144,000 of TRIBAL [genetic] Israel who actually NEED to attend to the holy days of God in order to resist the antichrist and become servants, priests, kings and sons of God, the immortal priesthood of Melchisedec [Melchizedek] of the new covenant between God and Israel for which Jesus Christ was sent to esatblish in his gospel [Jer 31:31-34] ... note incidentally that no man is needed to teach these men and that they are pre-destinated to this role from the beginning, they have no other life and indeed they are virgins/eunuchs in scripture

It is very clear then from scripture taht religions of men are indeed already highly fallen away [apostate], a NECESSARY state for mankind's institutions at this time, but worth bearing in mind when deciding what to listen to, scripture or tradition :

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

We mat note that philosophy invaded religious tradition to create masses of apostate 'exegesis' at a very early stage and that this is the basis on which much scripture is now actually ignored by traditions in most churches...

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[lastcodec]

Let us remember the reason for the sabath, and why it is important to God. It is to be a day of rest and worship, and weekly. I do not know if it matters which day you keep as the sabath, as long as you set aside one day each week.

 

[Jubi Lee]

From Sabbath to Sunday

Sunday observance came about for three reasons. First, the majority of early Christians in Rome were not former Jews. Consequently, the imposing culture and religious practices of Judaism, which included the seventh day Sabbath, were not considered as important in Rome as they were in Jerusalem. Actually, converts from Mithraism brought Sunday observance into the Christian church in Rome. Second, the seventh day Sabbath had been a distinguishing mark of the Jews for about 1,500 years. Anti-Semitism was an enormous motive in those days for distinction and separation between Christians and Jews. Last and most important, the union of church and state produced an enormous surprise. When Constantine converted to Christianity to strengthen his political control of the empire, he initiated a process that ultimately subjected the nations of Europe to the dominion and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church for 1,260 years!

Satan often works in subtle ways and he was masterful when he led the minds of carnal men to profane God’s law. Now, the vast majority of Christians worship on Sunday. Through the ages, experts have hammered on the Bible to make it say that the fourth commandment was nailed to the cross, but their creative claims are hollow. These claims are as silly as the priests of Baal who danced around the altar on Mt. Carmel. Protestant denominations who continue to exalt the sacredness of Sunday show, perhaps naively, submission to the doctrines and authority of the Church in Rome. There is no biblical basis for Sunday sacredness. There is no biblical basis for saying the Lord’s Day is Sunday. All that supports the observance and sacredness of Sunday as the Lord’s Day is a heap of tradition and the arrogance of man. God’s law does not change and the Ten Commandments stand without impeachment. The fourth commandment still points to the seventh day of the week as God’s holy day. What will God say to you and me on Judgment Day about our regard and treatment of His holy day?

I would like to close with three 3 texts. The first text is from King Solomon. He wrote, “Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man for God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.” ( Ecclesiastes 12:13,14) Jesus said, “If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.” ( John 15:10) Since these Scriptures are true, why not surrender your life to Jesus and resolve to keep holy His Sabbath of rest at any cost. Think of it this way, God offers you and me a one-day vacation from the cares of this world each week. He promises to sustain everything that we are doing until we return after our rest, so that nothing will be lost. Put your faith in God to the test and make up your mind to obey Him. When you carefully and prayerfully consider His offer, what is keeping you from accepting such a fine offer? Jesus says, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest [Sabbath].” ( Matthew 11:28, insertion mine.)

​

 

[stranger]

[lastcodec] "I do not know if it matters which day you keep as the sabath, as long as you set aside one day each week."

Why would God say that it is the seventh [hebrew-style] day of the week if any old day, even a Roman-style day like Sunday or Saturday would somehow be holy too ?

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:

How could weekly sabbath be a SIGN of God if it were not a specific [Hebrew] day [starting at sunset Jerusalem on what we now mostly call 'Friday' there] ? ...

Equally how could it have disappeared mysteriously or become another different 'day' ,with even 'day' defined differently than by God, when God has said that it is HIS holy sign for ever?

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

 

[JAL]

From Sabbath to Sunday



Sunday observance came about for three reasons. First, the majority of early Christians in Rome were not former Jews. Consequently, the imposing culture and religious practices of Judaism, which included the seventh day Sabbath, were not considered as important in Rome as they were in Jerusalem. Actually, converts from Mithraism brought Sunday observance into the Christian church in Rome. Second, the seventh day Sabbath had been a distinguishing mark of the Jews for about 1,500 years. Anti-Semitism was an enormous motive in those days for distinction and separation between Christians and Jews. Last and most important, the union of church and state produced an enormous surprise. When Constantine converted to Christianity to strengthen his political control of the empire, he initiated a process that ultimately subjected the nations of Europe to the dominion and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church for 1,260 years!

Satan often works in subtle ways and he was masterful when he led the minds of carnal men to profane God’s law. Now, the vast majority of Christians worship on Sunday. Through the ages, experts have hammered on the Bible to make it say that the fourth commandment was nailed to the cross, but their creative claims are hollow. These claims are as silly as the priests of Baal who danced around the altar on Mt. Carmel. Protestant denominations who continue to exalt the sacredness of Sunday show, perhaps naively, submission to the doctrines and authority of the Church in Rome. There is no biblical basis for Sunday sacredness. There is no biblical basis for saying the Lord’s Day is Sunday. All that supports the observance and sacredness of Sunday as the Lord’s Day is a heap of tradition and the arrogance of man. God’s law does not change and the Ten Commandments stand without impeachment. The fourth commandment still points to the seventh day of the week as God’s holy day. What will God say to you and me on Judgment Day about our regard and treatment of His holy day?

I would like to close with three 3 texts. The first text is from King Solomon. He wrote, “Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man for God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.” ( Ecclesiastes 12:13,14) Jesus said, “If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.” ( John 15:10) Since these Scriptures are true, why not surrender your life to Jesus and resolve to keep holy His Sabbath of rest at any cost. Think of it this way, God offers you and me a one-day vacation from the cares of this world each week. He promises to sustain everything that we are doing until we return after our rest, so that nothing will be lost. Put your faith in God to the test and make up your mind to obey Him. When you carefully and prayerfully consider His offer, what is keeping you from accepting such a fine offer? Jesus says, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest [Sabbath].” ( Matthew 11:28, insertion mine.)​

Why not Saturday? Because it's not as simple as you are making it. Our commands aren't supposed to come from the Bible. They are to come God's voice. You will find (except in bad translations) that very rarely does the Old Testment state, Obey my laws. Normally the command is Obey my voice. I can show you about 50 times. The Mosaic law came as God's voice (see Ex 19-20) but afterwards was written down by Moses. The problem is that as circumstances change, the application of the law changes, so the law is only a general format for people who can't hear God as well as Moses did (because of spiritual immaturity). But all Christians do hear God somewhat, as Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice...and follow me (Jn 10:27). So we have to do the best we can based on what we hear.

What do I hear right now? Am I supposed to obey every law in the OT? Every command in the NT? NO! For example Paul commanded in one place, Drink a little wine to help with your sour stomach. Does that apply to me? I don't think so. I have to listen to the voice of the Spirit to try to tell what He is commanding ME to do. Now let's say I took your advice about observing the Sabbath. That means that I would have to make a break with my all my Sunday brothers. I'm not denying that God preferred the Sabbath back then. What I'm denying is the notoin that He wants us to divide over it now. No day of the week is worth dividing over. That's why Paul says not to judge one another over the sabbath:
Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. (Rom 14:4-5)

​

Paul also says

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's. (Col 2:16-17)

The whole point of Galatians, in my opinion, is that Paul stopped observing the traditions of the law once he began hearing God's voice on the road to Damascus. From thenceforth he let the Voice decide whether he would observe any of the laws including the sabbath. True, I don't hear the voice as well as Paul did, i'm just doing the best I can, please don't judge me.

​

 

[JAL]

Why would God say that it is the seventh [hebrew-style] day of the week if any old day, even a Roman-style day like Sunday or Saturday would somehow be holy too ?

In His wisdom God picked a specific day because all of us need a kick in the pants sometimes. He was concerned that many people would not devote any time to Him at all, so He picked a day to get the ball rolling. But that doesn't mean we have a right to shove this rule down someone else's throat (not that you did that, but some do). Why not? Because imagine two Christians, one of them gives God six days of utter devotion but neglects the sabbath. The other only does the sabbath. Which one do you think God will be most excited about? If you think the sabbath-keeper, let me say this. I experience the presence of the Lord daily, and I find the more time I give Him the more He responds and He doesn't seem to care what day of the week it is. The whole problem with the Pharisees is that they observed the fine points of the law while missing the big picture. What God want is your heart. If you give Him six good says, but ignore the sabbath, trust me, He'll be a lot more excited about you than a whole lot of sabbath-keepers.

 

[Ave Maria]

I believe that Sunday was the normal day off for slaves.

I think for the Jews their slaves' day off was on Saturday because no work was allowed on the Sabbath. Not sure though.

 

[plmarquette]

http://www.ewtn.com/vlibrary/search2.asp
www.ewtn.org ... document libraries / search sabbath

 

[stranger]

What I'm denying is the notoin that He wants us to divide over it now

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.