Arius said:
Greetings
@FredVB
Here is the thing (as I just mentioned in my letter to our friend gadar perets, that since God created the
sun and the moon (which we count our days by) on
His 4th Day, which is our
"first day of the week", or
our Monday, .. and rested three days later on His Seventh Day, which is our Wednesday, so
Gods Sabbath is on our Wednesday.
So the Seventh Day worshippers actually worship a man made Sabbath along with their god YHWH.
God bless you.
Greetings, Arius. If we do keep discussion going in a friendly manner, indeed we are communicating as Christian believers, the way they should.
It is an error, that I never heard anywhere else, that the fourth day of creation was the first day. It is rightly understood, by any others, Jews and non-Jews, that the seventh day is the Sabbath, Exodus 20:11, Yahweh is showing it, from the seventh day after six days of creation. Each of the days had light, defining them, before as well as after the defined sun was in place.
I debated, and attended
7th Day Worshipping congregations, and yes, the "Day" and the word "YHWH" were specifically mentioned from the moment me and my wife entered the church on Saturday, .. including in "every sermon"
And you know very well that
"rolling up your bed, and taking it with you" was included in the "Breaking of the Sabbath", which is exactly why this was mentioned. As we can clearly see that you worship the word "YHWH" on your holy day called "Sabbath". Anyone other than the "Sabbath Day Worshippers" could see this.
John 5:1 - 18
8 Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” 9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked.
And that day was the Sabbath.
10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.”
11 He answered them, “He who made me well said to me, ‘Take up your bed and walk.’”
Our trying will never be good enough, that is the whole reason why God sent His only begotten Son Word into the world, because here is how God sees our "righteousness":
Isaiah 64:
6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousness's are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.
That "day" Is your Lord and god, so is the word "YHWH", as you keep showing us.
I am fully aware of
James 2:14-26, but I have shown you over and over again that even Jesus made a man break the Sabbath, to prove a point that our Creator is the Lord of the Sabbath also, not the other way around.
Answer me this: "Who did Jesus come for?"
That's right, "the Lost sheep of Israel", not you a gentile, yet see how that changed? So did many other things, especially the "keeping of the Law".
Thou shalt not commit adultery -
law
If you as much as look upon a woman lustfully you have committed adultery in your heart. -
Jesus
Give tithes -
law
Give all that you have to the poor, and follow me -
Jesus
We are to
"be perfect, for our Heavenly Father is perfect".
I just shown you again where Jesus specifically addressed the
"breaking of the Sabbath", multiply times.
I could go and change my name to YHWH, or even name my dog YHWH, .. because those four letters don't mean ANYTHING unless you KNOW who our Creator God Is.
Exodus 3:13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Like I said, anyone can have the name YHWH, even my dog, (which by the way atheists point out that dog spelled backwards is 'god') but knowing who God, or YHWH, or Heavenly Father, or who our Creator truly 'IS', the Lord gave it to Moses; Exodus 3:13
No 'name' can describe our Infinite Creator. I mean what
name could sum up
Infinite?
If they worship this YHWH on Saturday, they will enter into Gods Kingdom?
After 6,000 years, what makes you so sure you are "resting, and worshipping God" on the
seventh Day?
Adam and Eve lived in the Garden without counting days, for they/we were created to 'live forever', so how do you know you are not worshipping on the wrong day, maybe like the third, or the sixth day of Gods Seven Day creation??
Look, if we go by the Bible, the sun and the moon was created on Gods 4th Day, (Day one, or Monday for us) and rested 3 days later, which would be Wednesday. So Gods "Day of Rest", .. or the Sabbath is on Wednesday, .. is that when you worship Gods Holy Day?
"Organized Religion" says eat what ever kind of meat you want (dogs, cats, slugs, pigs, roaches, etc.), but our Creator says eat only clean meat.
Acts 10:
11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.” 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
Can't get any more clearer than that, and it was done 3 times, to make sure Paul gets it. But obviously even a hundred times isn't enough for you!?
Tetragrammaton - the Hebrew name of God transliterated in four letters as YHWH or JHVH and articulated as Yahweh or Jehovah.
.. got it?
YHWH, JHVH, Yahweh or Jehovah, make sure you don't call God by the wrong one!
I visited a Seventh Day Adventist church (I never had that as my own church), they sure did mention the Sabbath, with emphasis, this for them meaning the day for coming to that church, though I really came to visit for other reasons, it did not change my thinking toward seeing the Sabbath is holy, I already saw this in the scriptures. But there they were never mentioning the name of Yahweh, and I am sure I would have noticed if I heard it mentioned.
"rolling up your bed, and taking it with you" was not breaking the Sabbath, Jewish leaders were just saying it was, from their understanding, but it is not from the scriptures.
It is not really good to say, you worship the word "YHWH" on your holy day called "Sabbath". The name of Yahweh is not a word, but a name, the revealed name. Yahweh should be worshiped, and that shouldn't be criticized. And the Sabbath was revealed by Yahweh as holy, it is not someone else's holy day.
When
Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk,” Jesus was not going contrary to the law, for Jesus has perfect righteousness and was perfectly obedient to all the commandments. So it was Jewish leaders not understanding what requirements there were that said that was breaking the Sabbath, Jesus would not be involved with breaking it.
Yahweh is our God, it is not good to say Yahweh "is your god", Yahweh should be God for all of us, who else should be that? There is no other.
We do need Jesus's righteousness, it is perfect, with Jesus never involved with breaking any commandment. So with being in him, we are seen with his righteousness. Jesus was not and would not ever make one break any commandment, that or another.
The Sabbath is not our Lord and God, any more than it was to people of Israel in the covenant when Yahweh spoke of that for them. It was for coming to Yahweh, as they should.
Jesus said he came for the lost sheep of Israel, but he was not really excluding gentiles, the time to show gentiles were to be included with coming to Jesus had yet to come. Jesus did say he had sheep of another flock, anticipating this. So the difference with that is that gentiles don't have to become Jews for that, with circumcision, which is not a necessity.
And what Jesus spoke of commandments in the law did not lessen them in any way, but showed in some of them anyway more was involved than was being recognized.
It is for us to be perfect, and it is because the heavenly Father is perfect.
It is not recommendable that the name of Yahweh should be used so casually. There is to be respect with any mention of God. When you quote Exodus 3:13-14, you just leave it with stopping there, and neglect context, including Exodus 3:15 which goes in the same statement. You limit yourself if you just look at where it says "the LORD" if you won't recognize that the original inspired writing of the scriptures had the name of Yahweh there, in the Hebrew letters that were used. This name, that is written in the original scriptures almost seven thousand times, is what is for remembering in all generations.
I don't think there is any issue with how the name of Yahweh is pronounced, or how it is spelled. But I am sure I speak it just about how it was originally pronounced. I have seen how in ancient Greek writing the pronunciation was preserved in their Greek way.
Yes, after 6000 years, or however long it was, we can be sure when the Sabbath was, Exodus 20:11, shows it, the Jews have continually recognized that day, which Jesus still recognized, for he was perfect and never made an issue of the Sabbath being another day, but was perfect in the obedience.
About your reference to Acts 10, you, along with others I have seen, interpret it wrongly to be about any change in pernitted food. This way of seeing it neglects the context, not just of all that chapter, but other chapters, as specifically Acts 11 and Acts 15, and especially Acts of the Apostles 10:28 shows it. This is all about including the gentiles, that Jesus had anticipated, without judging them as unclean, to exclude them if they were not becoming Jewish, with circumcision.
The best way for us to be eating, that is from the design and Yahweh's perfect will for us, which was the original permission and what there will be return to, that creation groans for and the hope is shown with what is in prophetic revelation, is completely plant-based.
