Bible Maps

[jamescarvin]

I would be interested in figuring out the exact location of various gates and landmarks mentioned in the Bible. For instance, Zechariah 14:10 mentions ...

1. The Benjamin Gate
2. The First Gate
3. The Corner Gate
4. The Tower of Hannanel
5. The Kings Wine Presses

Does anyone know of a map that shows where all these are in relation to eachother and in relation to the current geography in or around Jerusalem?

Thanks for the help!

 

[visionary]

I don't... maybe if I bump this thread .. someone will..

 

[chetermezacha]

Trouble is that over time some names of places change, for example the first gate might be the gate of the firstborn (inside the Temple courts that first born walked through when being dedicated to Ya). I will keep my eyes out for the other ones, Im sure someone knows somewhere

 

[jamescarvin]

Thanks. Zechariah 14 provides a description of a future city perimeter that comes after a great earthquake. I'm trying to figure out what the city will look like after that earthquake. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Lulav]

I would be interested in figuring out the exact location of various gates and landmarks mentioned in the Bible. For instance, Zechariah 14:10 mentions ...

1. The Benjamin Gate
2. The First Gate
3. The Corner Gate
4. The Tower of Hannanel
5. The Kings Wine Presses

Does anyone know of a map that shows where all these are in relation to each other and in relation to the current geography in or around Jerusalem?

Thanks for the help!

Hi James,

I don't know if this helps at all but in the Book of Isaiah there is an interesting passage in chapter 5. You may want to read it and see if you get any insight.


Here is something on Hananeels Tower called the Hippicus tower

It gives a location so perhaps the others can be determined from that.

I would also suggest reading the book of Nehemiah where they are come back from exile and rebuilding the walls and gates. Much info there.

I'm not sure how helpful this is but here are some of Wesleys notes on this passage:

Benjamin's gate — Benjamin's gate north-east, corner-gate north-west; Hananiel's tower south, wine-presses north; that is in brief, compleatly around the city.

From the Encyclopedia Britannica found here it gives a bit on the gates, scroll slowly down to the end of the page )640) on the right and look at the notes.

It says that the Benjamin Gate was at the East end of the North wall , which doesn't really contradict Wesley, but makes it more precise.


Hope that helps a bit! Let us know what you figure out!

 

[jamescarvin]

The more I am digging into this the more interesting it is getting. First, there aren't very many good identifiers. Instead there are associations. An "identifier" would be a specific spot we could point to today and have sources that could show with certainty that's definitely the spot. "Associations" are references that show two or more things had the same name or were in proximity to eachother, perhaps with a distance given in cubits or such, but for which there is no identifier that can definitively connect it with a location on today's map.

I'm suprised that this is so difficult. Even if the Romans leveled Israel I thought Jerusalem particularly had been thoroughly escavated and its history analyzed inch by inch for centuries. But one of the first helpful sites I found was Rabbi Joseph Schwarz, who writing about a century and a half ago seemed to have the exact same problem as me. There are maps, but when you look into the sources from which those maps are given all sorts of presumptions are made without any definite identifiers. So it appears that archeologists really have their work cut out for them.

Here is a link to Schwarz. A Descriptive Geography and Brief History of Palestine, by Rabbi Joseph Schwarz, 1850.

Hi James,

I don't know if this helps at all but in the Book of Isaiah there is an interesting passage in chapter 5. You may want to read it and see if you get any insight.


Here is something on Hananeels Tower called the Hippicus tower

It gives a location so perhaps the others can be determined from that.

Yes, that is one of the associations Rabbi Schwarz mentioned. And it demonstrates the difficulty I'm having. The site says that it can definitely be determined that Hiccipus is the same as Hannanel but doesn't say anything about why or site any sources. Probably they are going by Rabbi Schwarz? Schwarz points to Josephus and has some rabbinic sources from the Talmud. He also was a cartographer but I haven't found any maps that provide sufficient detail of the gates and landmarks mentioned by Zechariah.

I would also suggest reading the book of Nehemiah where they are come back from exile and rebuilding the walls and gates. Much info there.

Yes, indeed. But again Nehemiah provides associations without identifiers. Schwarz says he counts counterclockwise. Maybe that's so. I'm looking into it.

I'm not sure how helpful this is but here are some of Wesleys notes on this passage:

From the Encyclopedia Britannica found here it gives a bit on the gates, scroll slowly down to the end of the page )640) on the right and look at the notes.

It says that the Benjamin Gate was at the East end of the North wall , which doesn't really contradict Wesley, but makes it more precise.


Hope that helps a bit! Let us know what you figure out!

Yes, it is said that the Benjamin Gate was along the North Wall on the East boundary on a number of web sites and they may be taking that on Wesley's authority. But where did Wesley get his authority? I can believe them, since that is the best I can do if I can't find anything else.

From there I go to eschatology. Ezekiel says the Benjamin Gate was not on the North Wall, but on the East Wall. He looks forward to a newly built Jerusalem. John also describes yet a different configuration. I think John is providing the heavenly description while Ezekiel is giving the earthly city.

Zechariah is describing a very great earthquake. The city of Jerusalem rises at that time while the surrounding areas are flattened into a plain. At that time Messiah returns setting foot on the Mt. of Olives. He can explain to us where the Kings Wine Presses were . I haven't found anything other than more speculation on that (though I can certainly see the allegory). There will also be laborers at that time. Perhaps they will assist in the building of the city and temple. But it has occurred to me it is possible that no such work will be required beyond cultivation at that time. Ezekiel provides the description at length.

The fact that reliable identifiers are lacking seems moot when considering that the whole landscape will be transformed by a massive earthquake and Ezekiel provides the next result. It seems that new wine bursts out of the old wine skins. But I'm still surprised that it has been difficult to find a series of maps showing ...

1. Israel territory/tribes at time of David
2. Jerusalem perimeter, wall and gate locations time of David
3. Temple location time of David
4. Gates of temple location time of David
5. All of the above Nehemiah period
6. All of the above Hasmonian period
7. Other landmarks mentioned by prophets

If I had that I would be able to have sufficient references to overlay a projection of the future layout based on what the prophets indicate. I can jump ahead without it. Zechariah says Jerusalem is not moved from its place as it rises up. Then Ezekiel provides the dimensions. But in saying that I find a clue. That is there must be a constant that serves as a point of reference.

So to my OP I would like to like to also ask what any of you forum participants think would be a good point of reference. Maybe it is the Benjamin Gate or, or perhaps the Tower of Hannanel, as you suggested. If I had just two of the gates I could get the rest through Ezekiel?

 

[Lulav]

Hi James, I am not sure if what I looked up for you was of any help. Have you tried studying any ancient maps of Jerusalem?

I know I have some in some pretty old books I will have to look through my library to see what I do have. But I found an online source have you checked out this yet?

Ancient Maps of Jerusalem:Maps by date

The earliest they have only goes back to and is in Latin which I don't read. But it may have something contained therein that you can use with the prophets books.

Here is a map that shows a tower gate, perhaps that was the tower of Hannanel? It also has the southern wall labled the First wall, the only gate I see there is the Essene Gate.

 

[Lulav]

I found another site that listed maps and gave links the one most promising was for a Professor Rehav Rubin maps of Jerusalem. The link was bad but I found him here. As you can see there is a great deal he has studied on and also has his fax, phone and email should you choose to contact him and see if you can acquire any more info.

Prof

If not, here is a list of his publications that you may be able to get a hold of, try amazon first, you may be able to look inside and see something that might help.

Here's another link of those in the project of mapping Jerusalem.

 

[Lulav]

The may add a tid bit or two to what you have

The Gates of Jerusalem

I didn't read through all of it but he is saying that the Gate of Benjamin is also the same as Ephraim's Gate.

 

[Lulav]

Hey James, how is the research going? Was anything I found of any use? I still have to dig out those books I think I still have with the ancient maps, but haven't been up to much activity due to some medical problems but I will when I can!

 

[jamescarvin]

Hey James, how is the research going? Was anything I found of any use? I still have to dig out those books I think I still have with the ancient maps, but haven't been up to much activity due to some medical problems but I will when I can!

Boy Lulav, you sure are a helpful angel! And I pray your medical problems will go away fast. I have found a plethora of map sites and resources as one site has led to another and I've been doing key word searches, etc. I also downloaded a BibleMapper Program so I could create my own maps.

That won't work for the Post Earthquake Map I'm trying to make but I am examining possible fault lines and river references. Oddly, the name of the river in the picture below is missing and I've had a horrible time figuring it out. Seems like it should be very obvious. I know there is a river that runs up to Tel Aviv from Jerusalem called the Ayalon River, but this river seems to flow south of Tel Aviv and comes from the north of Jerusalem.

I'm wondering whether the reference to Azel in Zechariah refers to a place that meets this river.I think it is about equivalent to the originally described souther border of Dan. It seems natural that a river would become a boundary line. And Mt. Jearim ... is that the same as Kiriath Jearim?

Anyway, reps to you, Lulav, and to anybody who can give me the name of this river ...

 

[Lulav]

You're welcome, I'm glad to help.

Have you tried any maps like this one

Or satellite imagery maps that might show ancient river beds?

Here's a wiki list of rivers in Israel with stats that may help.

I can't find the reference to Azel in Zech. Can you give me a chapter and verse?

thanks!

 

[jamescarvin]

You're welcome, I'm glad to help.

Have you tried any maps like this one

Or satellite imagery maps that might show ancient river beds?

Here's a wiki list of rivers in Israel with stats that may help.

Yes, I've spent a lot of time on both of these sites. Other rivers are mentioned. I think it may be the Ayalon River, but Tel Aviv seems to be farther north of where the river I'm looking at outlets into the Mediterranean. The Mountains should be a clue.

I can't find the reference to Azel in Zech. Can you give me a chapter and verse?

thanks!

Zehcariah 14:4-5

“4In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel . Yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!"

I read somewhere that the word "Azel" means "adjoin." So I was thinking maybe Azel would join the two seas the passage later discusses. The natural point on that on the West side is that river I see on the map, but want to be sure of the name. On the East side, I think is the way of escape for those trapped in the city by the enemies, through the Mount of Olives. Would it be safe to say that the river on the East side of Jerusalem there, that goes all the way to the coast is the Ayalon?

 

[jamescarvin]

I think I may be getting there. I thought this would be easier. The river looks large. Anyway, apparently Baalah has been associated with Al Mughar. And Al Mughar was the scene of a battle with the Ottomoans in 1917. So there are some Military Maps. And those usually focus on terrain.

Here's one ...

Mt. Baala, and a town called Baala are both associated with the northern border of Judah in Joshua 15:10-11. I'm thinking Mt. Baala ought to be the easiest identification point. But even on the Military Maps I'm still not sure about the river's name, or what modern town would now be on the coast...