Bible-Creation-Evolution

[sandwiches]

So when has it been observed Humans evolved?

What did we evolve from?

Where did we evolve from?

Where you there then to observe?

Are you saying this transition is on camera/been observed?

You wonder why there are so many creationists or sceptics of evolution?

It's because evolution has never been observed, and to most people believing in something which is not observable is irrational. Do you believe in pixies, leprachuans?

You asked if we have a "transition... on camera." What do you think would be recorded when it comes to evolution?

 

[sandwiches]

Definition of religion from astandard dictionary -

''a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe''

The theory of evolution therefore is religious.

The cause, nature and purpose of the universe are religious or philosophical questions and not science because no one was there to observe when it was created and why, or how etc.

Hence science is limited on these issues. We don't know the age of the earth or universe, we just have reasonable estimations. For example no one knows what day and what second the universe was made, scientists can only guess by a million or billion year estimate. However, if someone was there - we would know the exact date, hence we have some very precise times for battles and historical events since recorded history.

Evolution therefore is religious/faith-based/assumption etc.

This is all good and everything except for the fact that evolution has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "cause, nature, and purpose of the universe."

 

[Research1]

This is all good and everything except for the fact that evolution has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "cause, nature, and purpose of the universe."

Basics...

Cosmic Evolution: The origin of time, space and matter, by the Big Bang

2. Chemical Evolution: The origin of higher elements from hydrogen.

3. Stellar and Planetary Evolution: The origin of stars and planets.

4. Organic Evolution: The origin of Life.

5. Macro-Evolution: The changing from one kind of species to another kind of species.

6. Micro-Evolution: The variation within kinds of species.

Only 6 has ever been observed though, all the others are not proven.

 

[AV1611VET]

How so? does evolution have rites and ceremonies? Holy texts? Deities?

Close --

The Bible says about some that -- professing themselves to be sapiens -- they ended up becoming atheists who worship Creation.

Romans 1:20 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Delphiki]

Basics...

Cosmic Evolution: The origin of time, space and matter, by the Big Bang

This is actually being currently observed. We can see the further away things are, the faster they are moving away, showing an obvious expansion. My measuring their velocity, and calculating how long ago everything would have been in the same place, we come up with 13.75 billion years.

2. Chemical Evolution: The origin of higher elements from hydrogen.

We can look at a stars composition my simply pointing a spectrometer at it. There's a bit of explaining involved, so I'll provide a link on how it works. Basically, the larger the star is, the heavier elements it will fuse, starting with Hydrogen. Our own star only fuses this into Helium. while much heavier stars may form Iron

What is Spectroscopy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_nucleosynthesis

3. Stellar and Planetary Evolution: The origin of stars and planets.

We don't watch any single star being born then dying because their lifespans far exceed our own, however, we have billions upon billions of stars to look at, all of them in various stages of life. Suppose you've seen people be born and people die, but have never seen one person go through a whole life cycle -- you don't think you'd still understand a human life cycle by looking at the billions of other people on earth in various stages of life?

4. Organic Evolution: The origin of Life.

See: any thinking person's post in this forum.

5. Macro-Evolution: The changing from one kind of species to another kind of species.

Actually this is just #4, over a long period of time.

6. Micro-Evolution: The variation within kinds of species.

...and this is number 4 over a shorter period of time.

Only 6 has ever been observed though, all the others are not proven.

Keep on quoting Kent Hovind, though. Have fun!

 

[USincognito]

Basics...

Lifted from Kent Hovind and shown to be diaphanous piffle for years now.

Cosmic Evolution: The origin of time, space and matter, by the Big Bang

- Cosmology, not evolution.

2. Chemical Evolution: The origin of higher elements from hydrogen.

- This is actually astrophysics and nuclear chemistry. Not evolution.

3. Stellar and Planetary Evolution: The origin of stars and planets.

- Astrophysics and geology, not evolution.

4. Organic Evolution: The origin of Life.

- Abiogenesis. Not evolution

5. Macro-Evolution: The changing from one kind of species to another kind of species.

- This is simple evolution and wront to boot. Species don't change into different extant species. They subspeciate.

6. Micro-Evolution: The variation within kinds of species.

- Meaningless Creationist semantics. They can't even define "kinds" (see Todd Wood's failed attempts at determining hominid, horse and bacterial "baramins").

Only 6 has ever been observed though, all the others are not proven.

- Actually we've made observations with regard to all of these fields of study.

 

[Research1]

This is actually being currently observed.

????

So you are saying the universe was observed when it was created?

Back to reality...

We can see the further away things are, the faster they are moving away, showing an obvious expansion. My measuring their velocity, and calculating how long ago everything would have been in the same place, we come up with 13.75 billion years.

That has nothing to do with evolution, all it shows is that originally everything was created in the same place. That doesn't rule out creationism.

We can look at a stars composition my simply pointing a spectrometer at it. There's a bit of explaining involved, so I'll provide a link on how it works. Basically, the larger the star is, the heavier elements it will fuse, starting with Hydrogen. Our own star only fuses this into Helium. while much heavier stars may form Iron

What is Spectroscopy?
Stellar nucleosynthesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No one has ever observed a star evolve. According to mainstream astronomers it takes millions of years.

Again back to reality...

Why do you reject scientific facts?

We don't watch any single star being born then dying because their lifespans far exceed our own, however, we have billions upon billions of stars to look at, all of them in various stages of life. Suppose you've seen people be born and people die, but have never seen one person go through a whole life cycle -- you don't think you'd still understand a human life cycle by looking at the billions of other people on earth in various stages of life?

See above.

And now you are changing the definition of science to what is non-observable and non-testable...not wise, since it opens science up to pseudo-science.

See: any thinking person's post in this forum.

?

Once again back to reality...

No one has observed when life originated.

Actually this is just #4, over a long period of time.

Thats what the evolutionists say, but since this has never been observed its not science. You are still welcome to your faith in it though.

...and this is number 4 over a shorter period of time.

Its been observed - so its science.

Thats what science is about - observing and testing, just a shame the evolutionists/atheists don't yet grasp the basics of science.

Keep on quoting Kent Hovind, though. Have fun!

All of these 'forms' of evolution are in the dictionary.

 

[USincognito]

So when has it been observed Humans evolved?

Over the past 170 years or so, since the first discovery of hominid fossils that weren't H. sapiens.

What did we evolve from?

- Earlier hominid species, earlier primate species, earlier mammal species, etc.

Where did we evolve from?

- This makes no sense. Could you phrase this question more precisely?

Where you there then to observe?

- Nope, and didn't need to be. The beings that were there and the environment they lived in left plenty of clues we can observe today.

Are you saying this transition is on camera/been observed?

- I'm saying those goalposts aren't going to move no matter how hard you push them.

You wonder why there are so many creationists or sceptics of evolution?

- I don't. Most are deniers because they don't know the evidence or have a straw man concept that I wouldn't accept either. Some just have trouble accepting reality.

It's because evolution has never been observed, and to most people believing in something which is not observable is irrational. Do you believe in pixies, leprachuans?

- Ah, so you're one of the ones who doesn't know the evidence or how science works. Good to know.

 

[Phred]

Actually wether right or wrong, I am the only one of us that has a answer
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What is yours? In the beginning.... ?

That's not an answer. It's at best just an old myth. At worst it's not even a guess.

 

[TerranceL]

Actually wether right or wrong, I am the only one of us that has a answer
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What is yours? In the beginning.... ?

"Magic man done it" isn't an answer.

 

[Phred]

So when has it been observed Humans evolved?

You're a hypocrite. Who observed your deity creating the universe? THAT doesn't matter to you. It only matters that someone had to observe humans evolving. The point is that the process of evolution is very slow and takes eons. No one person could observe it. What we can observe are the pieces. We see the fossils of our ancestors. We see the similarities in the DNA. We see the endogenous retroviruses that mark us as absolutely descending from a common ancestor with many other creatures. We see the process of mutation, of natural selection, of genetic drift and of speciation. All these things together lead us to an inescapable conclusion. Man evolved.

What did we evolve from?

A creature that was not man. A creature that was not chimp. But it's progeny became both.

Where did we evolve from?

Africa originally.

Where you there then to observe?

Asinine and irrelevant question.

Are you saying this transition is on camera/been observed?

Are you saying your god creating the universe is on camera has been observed?

You wonder why there are so many creationists or sceptics of evolution?

No, I don't wonder. It's because you're ignorant, scared and simple. Fighting the idea of evolution does two things. One, it buys you heaven points. Two, it saves you from having to not be special. In every other area of your life you're just spam. You're crap at work, you're crap at home. But you're a human being created in the image of God and you take great comfort from that little myth. Only if evolution is true you think that's false. It messes with your head. You don't like to have to think.

It's because evolution has never been observed, and to most people believing in something which is not observable is irrational. Do you believe in pixies, leprachuans?

Your god is not observable but you believe in it. Hypocrite.

Again, the process of evolution takes eons. No one person could observe it all. But we have observed all the parts. There's no reason to think that these parts don't happen to all species in every aspect of life. We evolved. You are just another animal. Deal with it.

 

[Research1]

You're a hypocrite. Who observed your deity creating the universe? THAT doesn't matter to you.

Creationists don't claim creationism is scientific. We can't observe the creation of the universe or life, so no view (evolution, creationism, ancient astronaut theory etc) is scientific on this matter.

Science is strictly what we can observe, test and repeat - as any science dictionary will tell you.

Are you saying the dictionaries are wrong?

It only matters that someone had to observe humans evolving. The point is that the process of evolution is very slow and takes eons. No one person could observe it. What we can observe are the pieces. We see the fossils of our ancestors. We see the similarities in the DNA. We see the endogenous retroviruses that mark us as absolutely descending from a common ancestor with many other creatures. We see the process of mutation, of natural selection, of genetic drift and of speciation. All these things together lead us to an inescapable conclusion. Man evolved.

All your own personal interpretation, nothing more. Creationists look at the same info but come to different conclusions.

And since you have admitted evolution is not observable, then i don't see why you oppose creationism so much. Both are on the same level, as neither have ever been observed.

Africa originally.

Yet this was contradicted in the evolutionary community only recently by a finding in Israel, and others in China.

The only reason most still cling to the 'out of africa' theory is because of political correctness.

Are you saying your god creating the universe is on camera has been observed?

I never claimed creationism is scientfic. However you claimed evolution is science, but then admit its not observable. Stop calling it a science then...its clearly a religion/faith/assumption.

No, I don't wonder. It's because you're ignorant, scared and simple. Fighting the idea of evolution does two things. One, it buys you heaven points. Two, it saves you from having to not be special. In every other area of your life you're just spam. You're crap at work, you're crap at home. But you're a human being created in the image of God and you take great comfort from that little myth. Only if evolution is true you think that's false. It messes with your head. You don't like to have to think.

People are entitled to be skeptical. Evolutionists appear to question nothing, shows that evolution is not science doesn't it? Because real science is open to change and challenging, yet evolutionists are dogmatic that their theory is fact and never research or look into anything else.

Evolutionists explore no alternitives, they just blindly go along with their theory without ever questioning it or researching anything else.

Your god is not observable but you believe in it. Hypocrite.

People observe and experience God everyday.

The problem here is that evolutionists are materialists and don't understand there is a spirtual dimension to life.

Again, the process of evolution takes eons. No one person could observe it all. But we have observed all the parts. There's no reason to think that these parts don't happen to all species in every aspect of life. We evolved. You are just another animal. Deal with it.

Evolution is not observable...agreed. So why do you believe in it?

Because you have faith - you are religious after all.

 

[Tiberius]

Definition of religion from astandard dictionary -

''a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe''

The theory of evolution therefore is religious.

The cause, nature and purpose of the universe are religious or philosophical questions and not science because no one was there to observe when it was created and why, or how etc.

Hence science is limited on these issues. We don't know the age of the earth or universe, we just have reasonable estimations. For example no one knows what day and what second the universe was made, scientists can only guess by a million or billion year estimate. However, if someone was there - we would know the exact date, hence we have some very precise times for battles and historical events since recorded history.

Evolution therefore is religious/faith-based/assumption etc.

Science is based on evidence, not assumption. Science is not a religion. No part of science is.

So when has it been observed Humans evolved?

Fossil record shows a progression of homonid fossils.

What did we evolve from?

Early homonid species.

Where did we evolve from?

What do you mean, where? it all happened on Earth.

Where you there then to observe?

"There" is "here". I am here. The evidence left behind is here.

Are you saying this transition is on camera/been observed?

One species becoming another species has been observed, many times.

You wonder why there are so many creationists or sceptics of evolution?

I don't wonder. I know why. because they don't bother to do their research and look at the evidence.

It's because evolution has never been observed, and to most people believing in something which is not observable is irrational. Do you believe in pixies, leprachuans?

have you ever seen an angel? And yet I bet you believe. hence, you are irrational.

Close --

The Bible says about some that -- professing themselves to be sapiens -- they ended up becoming atheists who worship Creation.

Romans 1:20 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

In other words, anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong because your old book says so.

????

So you are saying the universe was observed when it was created?

Have you heard of the cosmic microwave background radiation? Go look it up.

That has nothing to do with evolution, all it shows is that originally everything was created in the same place. That doesn't rule out creationism.

It does support the Big Bang theory, however.

No one has ever observed a star evolve. According to mainstream astronomers it takes millions of years.

yeah, it takes millions of years, and yet you think that if science was true we'd be able to see the entire life of one?

What we can do is look at differnet stars in different stages of life, and form a model for how a star changes. it's kinda like if you look at people walking down the street. You'd see people of all different ages, and you'd be able to figure out that people start off as little babies, grow into children, then adults before finally becoming elderly. If you see someone die on the street, you might even figure out how the process ends, and you could figure out how it starts if you saw a woman giving birth.

Your argument is like saying that because you can't see the act of conception, the idea that people grow through different life stages is wrong.

Why do you reject scientific facts?

And what facts are being ignored in that discussion about stellar evolution (which has nothing to do with biological evolution, btw).

And now you are changing the definition of science to what is non-observable and non-testable...not wise, since it opens science up to pseudo-science.

Just because the process takes longer than a single person is able to obnserve it does not mean that it is not observable or testable.

No one has observed when life originated.

So because science can't answer it now, that means goddidit? Once, science couldn't answer what kept the sun shining. That didn't mean Goddidit was the right answer. You are invoking God of the Gaps.

Thats what the evolutionists say, but since this has never been observed its not science. You are still welcome to your faith in it though.

Again, just because one person can't see the whole thing doesn't make it false. There is a wealth of molecular and DNA evidence that supports it. perhaps you'd like to tell us where the flaws in these evidences are?

Thats what science is about - observing and testing, just a shame the evolutionists/atheists don't yet grasp the basics of science.

The evidences for biological evolution have been observed and tested, and they have been used to make testable predictions which were shown to be accurate. I have already mentioned this. Why do you ignore it?

All of these 'forms' of evolution are in the dictionary.

So is centrifugal force, even though that's just inertia.

let me ask you a question.

Are you actually interested in learning what evolution is, or are you just here to bash it?

 

[AV1611VET]

In other words, anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong because your old book says so.

If 'my old book' says it -- that settles it.

 

[1611AV]

There's more than one answer. Why do you dismiss the myriads of answers available?

OK then give me the answer you believe. In the beginning?...

 

[Nostromo]

Creationists don't claim creationism is scientific.

In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - index.html
The Creation Science FAQ Version=3.5.0

However you claimed evolution is science, but then admit its not observable. Stop calling it a science then...its clearly a religion/faith/assumption.

It's not directly observable.

When the clouds cover the Sun do you claim it is religious to believe it is still there because we cannot directly observe it? I imagine, like everyone else, you see that it is still light outside and reasonably conclude that the Sun still exists even when you can't see it.

 

[1611AV]

Basics...



This is actually being currently observed. We can see the further away things are, the faster they are moving away, showing an obvious expansion. My measuring their velocity, and calculating how long ago everything would have been in the same place, we come up with 13.75 billion years.



We can look at a stars composition my simply pointing a spectrometer at it. There's a bit of explaining involved, so I'll provide a link on how it works. Basically, the larger the star is, the heavier elements it will fuse, starting with Hydrogen. Our own star only fuses this into Helium. while much heavier stars may form Iron

What is Spectroscopy?
Stellar nucleosynthesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



We don't watch any single star being born then dying because their lifespans far exceed our own, however, we have billions upon billions of stars to look at, all of them in various stages of life. Suppose you've seen people be born and people die, but have never seen one person go through a whole life cycle -- you don't think you'd still understand a human life cycle by looking at the billions of other people on earth in various stages of life?



See: any thinking person's post in this forum.



Actually this is just #4, over a long period of time.



...and this is number 4 over a shorter period of time.



Keep on quoting Kent Hovind, though. Have fun!

Why would you mention his quoting of Kent Hovind? Is that not exactly what evolutionists do with Darwin and family? Or do you all make this stuff up yourselves?

Evolutionists compartmentalize themselves so they dont have to explain the science of evolution theory in a broad manner. Now I understand that you can take a snapshot at what God has made and try to explain how it "changes" over time. But if you dont believe God created it in the first place and further believe there is no God then, you need to be able to demonstrate the origin of evolution back to when nothing became something. - 1611AV

Otherwise dont act as if you have proven by evidence that God does not exist. Again for those who oppose God I ask, In the beginning...?

 

[Freodin]

Again for those who oppose God I ask, In the beginning...?

The beginning of what?

 

[Redac]

But if you dont believe God created it in the first place and further believe there is no God then, you need to be able to demonstrate the origin of evolution back to when nothing became something. - 1611AV

Not really. Evolution explains the diversity of life, not how it got here. It could have been poofed into existance by a magical unicorn, that doesn't effect whether it evolves or not.

 

[Greg1234]

Not really. Evolution explains the diversity of life, not how it got here.

Just like beastman intelligence explains the origin of texts. Or purely stochastic processes explain the origin of the universe. Or evolutionary psychology explains the origin of faith. Materialists have been stating their beliefs for a while now. The only problem is you want special treatment and special regard when it comes to Darwinian evolution.

It could have been poofed into existance by a magical unicorn, that doesn't effect whether it evolves or not.

What affects whether or not radar returns are caused by little men with flashlights is the visible evidence which can be obtained through "visible science" by means of the eye instrument. Not delving into "invisible science", or whether or not you can compare radio waves to magical unicorns or even if you believe that the appearance of blips on the radar is "poof" and thus nothing compared to visible science's vibrant delineations on little men with flashlights.