Bible-Creation-Evolution (2)

[AV1611VET]

I see. So all the sects that splintered off from the church over the years and where persecuted are correct? As apparently are the Heavens Gate folks.

The point dad is making is that no one ever died knowing that what they died for was a lie.

The Heaven's Gate Cult thought they were right, Islams think they are right, but one doesn't become a martyr for something he knows to be a lie.

 

[TheReasoner]

The point dad is making is that no one ever died knowing that what they died for was a lie.

The Heaven's Gate Cult thought they were right, Islams think they are right, but one doesn't become a martyr for something he knows to be a lie.

Muslims. Not Islams. By the way AV, how do you know you're right. Because of the bible? Not good enough. The Muslims have their Quaran, the Bahá'í have their writings. And others have other writings. How do you know that Christianity is true?

I know why I believe and why I think I'm right in my choice of whom to worship, but why do you believe what you do AV? I'm just curious.

 

[Nostromo]

The point dad is making is that no one ever died knowing that what they died for was a lie.

The Heaven's Gate Cult thought they were right, Islams think they are right, but one doesn't become a martyr for something he knows to be a lie.

All that tells us is, as you say, those people thought they were right.

There's not really anything fresh there though.

 

[AV1611VET]

I know why I believe and why I think I'm right in my choice of whom to worship, but why do you believe what you do AV? I'm just curious.

By the taste.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

 

[AV1611VET]

There's not really anything fresh there though.

Oh, really? so Jesus went to the Cross, just thinking He was the Messiah?

 

[TheReasoner]

By the taste.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

That was a poetic answer. I like it

 

[AV1611VET]

That was a poetic answer. I like it

Thank you!

 

[rjc34]

Oh, really? so Jesus went to the Cross, just thinking He was the Messiah?

There were a lot of messiahs in those days

 

[Supreme]

There were a lot of messiahs in those days

Yep. And I think quite a few of them suffered their fair share for making such a claim in the first place.

 

[Greg1234]

Muslims. Not Islams. By the way AV, how do you know you're right. Because of the bible? Not good enough. The Muslims have their Quaran, the Bahá'í have their writings. And others have other writings. How do you know that Christianity is true?

I know why I believe and why I think I'm right in my choice of whom to worship, but why do you believe what you do AV? I'm just curious.

Doesn't matter. They're all connected. A problem for materialism is not generally a problem.

 

[AV1611VET]

There were a lot of messiahs in those days

Yes, that's true.

Part of the ceremony of becoming a priest, is that oil was poured over your head.

Exodus 29:1a ¶ And this is the thing that thou shalt do unto them to hallow them, to minister unto me in the priest's office:

Exodus 29:7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

At that point, he became an anointed (messiah means 'anointed') priest: tribe of Levi, after the order of Aaron.

Jesus Christ, however, is THE anointed high priest: tribe of Judah, after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[rjc34]

Doesn't matter. They're all connected.

...So the Muslims and the Baha'i are connected? As well as 'the others with their writings'?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yep. And I think quite a few of them suffered their fair share for making such a claim in the first place.

I don't think anyone in his right mind would try such a thing, as the ceremonies were elaborate and open to the public.

For those who did, they fooled no one but themselves -- certainly not the Jews.

 

[Greg1234]

...So the Muslims and the Baha'i are connected? As well as 'the others with their writings'?

They're all connected. Analytical problems for materialists are not problems in general

 

[Nostromo]

Oh, really? so Jesus went to the Cross, just thinking He was the Messiah?

Assuming the events happened as described then my answer should be obvious: Yes.

You mentioned Heaven's Gate already - Applewhite willingly died thinking he was the reincarnation of Christ, did he not?

 

[TheReasoner]

Assuming the events happened as described then my answer should be obvious: Yes.

You mentioned Heaven's Gate already - Applewhite willingly died thinking he was the reincarnation of Christ, did he not?

Well... In Jesus' case there are certainly supporting events prior to His execution. Raising people from the dead, driving out demons, healing the sick and so on would certainly prove rather decent supporting pieces of evidence, wouldn't you say?

 

[AV1611VET]

Assuming the events happened as described then my answer should be obvious: Yes.

Well remember, He also walked on water, healed the sick and raised the dead.

That certainly set Him apart from any false messiahs.

You mentioned Heaven's Gate already - Applewhite willingly died thinking he was the reincarnation of Christ, did he not?

Apparently he did -- but the point is, he would not have done that, knowing he wasn't.

Even you might do that, if you thought you were the Messiah; but you certainly wouldn't, knowing you're not the Messiah.

 

[Nostromo]

Well remember, He also walked on water, healed the sick and raised the dead.

When I say "events happened as described", I was talking about him dying for his beliefs.

Apparently he did -- but the point is, he would not have done that, knowing he wasn't.

Even you might do that, if you thought you were the Messiah; but you certainly wouldn't, knowing you're not the Messiah.

I don't see how you can say that with absolute certainty. Extremely unlikely, but not impossible.

I would say plenty of soldiers have died believing that the pretenses under which they are at war are false, yet they went anyway, knowing there was every chance they would die.

Even if we assume you're right, that still just leaves us with somebody in the less than unique position of thinking they're right about something.

 

[Greg1234]

When I say "events happened as described", I was talking about him dying for his beliefs.


I don't see how you can say that with absolute certainty. Extremely unlikely, but not impossible.

It's unlikely in materialism for him to be what said he was since what he said he was is against materialistic principles.

I would say plenty of soldiers have died believing that the pretenses under which they are at war are false, yet they went anyway, knowing there was every chance they would die.

Except that a soldier's perception is confined. To compare with.men we would first have to adopt your viewpoint that he was only a man.

Even if we assume you're right, that still just leaves us with somebody in the less than unique position of thinking they're right about something.

We would first have to adopt your viewpoint that he wasn't what he was before we concede the point that he died 'thinking' he was right about something since as the Christ, perception of reality is full.

 

[rjc34]

They're all connected.

This is the most hilarious and absurd thing I've ever heard come out of you greg, congratulations.