Bible-Creation-Evolution (2)

[Gracchus]

It is believed that the Hebrews lived in the city of Tel ed-Daba. In Ancient Time, as today flood planes make a great place to grow food. If it were not for floods you would not have civilization as we know it today. Later on the Egyptians developed irrigation, so they could feed more people and become more populated. The trade mark for the Hebrews has always been their genetic purity. So it is easy to use those markers to see they were in Egypt at the time.

We do know that there was intermarriage between Canaan and Egypt. We do know that Semitic peoples did invade and conquer Egypt. And the "trademark of the Hebrews" was not their "genetic purity". As Finklestein and Silberman show, the "Hebrews" were just Canaanites.

For the most part you make a lot of wild claims with a total lack of evidence.

See (for instance): "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts" by Neil Asher Silberman and Israel Finkelstein (May 28, 2002)

We back up what we say with evidence from genetics, archeology, science and so on.

We? Oh, if you are an expert you can no doubt give citations.

In addition to the historical documents in the Bible we use other written historical documents from that time.

So what documents mention the plagues, the death of of all the first-born and the drowning of the Egyptian army in the Red Sea?

Moses used the Egyptian Papyrus. Before Moses they usually engraved on clay.

Clay tablets were used in Mesopotamia from the time of the Sumerians on. I was not aware that they were used in Egypt. Can you give citations?

 

[rjc34]

You assume that there isn't a spiritual side which is not proven. The witnesses line up to agree with me.

The burden of proof is on you, not us. You're the one claiming we're missing the spiritual side, so it's up to you to prove it.

Easy. Until a same state past is proven, the stuff built on that belief is bogus.

The assumption produces results. What results can assuming things were in a different state get us?

 

[dad]

The burden of proof is on you, not us. You're the one claiming we're missing the spiritual side, so it's up to you to prove it.

You are the one claiming it never was part of man's world. You can't know that. Most people have always believed in a spiritual. Not because science gave it to man!

The assumption produces results. What results can assuming things were in a different state get us?

Results HERE and NOW. So? Many of the results are wicked anyhow.

 

[Tiberius]

Evidence comes in the form of records. Science can't deal in the spiritual, let alone the spiritual of the far past! The miracles I have mentioned often with some details, like food replicating or bodies transported, etc. I have also detailed many differences of the pre and near flood eras.
http://splitmerge.webs.com/split.pdf

Assuming that those records are accurate.

You assume that there isn't a spiritual side which is not proven. The witnesses line up to agree with me.

Getting people to agree on a spiritual side is easy. But given there are so many different ideas about how it all works kinda makes me wonder who has it right. If anyone does, that is...

Easy. Until a same state past is proven, the stuff built on that belief is bogus.

That logic is ridiculous. You are the one making the claim that the past was different, you should support it.

 

[rjc34]

Results HERE and NOW. So? Many of the results are wicked anyhow.

Only when the military gets their grubby hands on it.

We'll keep our internet and medical science, thank you very much.

 

[dad]

Only when the military gets their grubby hands on it.

We'll keep our internet and medical science, thank you very much.

Net porn and abortions and sex change operations and etc. Well, one day it will all be made right.

But meanwhile none of that had anything to do with Noah's day.

 

[dad]

Assuming that those records are accurate.

Tell you what, you get 16 million evos to die because they want to say they know for sure there was a same state past, and I will give your stuff a second boo.

Getting people to agree on a spiritual side is easy. But given there are so many different ideas about how it all works kinda makes me wonder who has it right. If anyone does, that is...

If spirits are real some are wrong some are right.

That logic is ridiculous. You are the one making the claim that the past was different, you should support it.

False. You are the one making the claim that the past was as the present, you should support it. Otherwise we go with the records.

 

[rjc34]

Net porn and abortions and sex change operations and etc. Well, one day it will all be made right.

Porn cuts down sex crimes, abortions were being performed long before modern medical science, and is it not God's fault for putting a female mind in a male body or vice versa?

 

[Nostromo]

Well, one day it will all be made right.

Are you hoping you get to push the button?

You're just a nasty little bigot, dad.

 

[Archer93]

No. I am saying that when we add the spiritual locally, things are different there and then.

So- for things to be different, a miracle is needed?

 

[Tiberius]

Tell you what, you get 16 million evos to die because they want to say they know for sure there was a same state past, and I will give your stuff a second boo.

What in the world..? I mean, you were saying some weird stuff before, but now you want millions of people who accept evolution to die just to prove a point?

You know, If I had said this regarding Christians, i'd probably be banned from this site. Why should you be any different?

If spirits are real some are wrong some are right.

Firstly, that's a big if.

Secondly, you are assuming that the right interpretation is out there.

False. You are the one making the claim that the past was as the present, you should support it. Otherwise we go with the records.

You have the burden of proof.

The default option in all cases is to assume the least. When you say that the laws operated differently in the past, you are assuming that there is another combination of laws in addition to the laws we KNOW work today.

So, you have the know laws (that are in effect now) and you are assuming another set of laws (that were in effect before).

I am not assuming a different set of laws.

Go and read up on burden of proof.

Oh, and for the billionth time...

I HAVE SUPPORTED MY POSITION WITH THE FACT THAT THE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF RADIO DATING TECHNIQUES ARE IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH EACH OTHER.

 

[sandwiches]

If you do not know about DNA a good place to start would be Bryan Sykes book: "The Seven Daughters of Eve: The Science that Reveals Our Genetic Ancestry". Bryan Sykes Although the work that has to do with the Hebrew people is going on at the University in Jerusalem. Sykes was the first to find ancient DNA in the tooth of a skull where it is fairly well protected by the enamel for even up to 10,000 years or longer. The most popular Hebrew study was the discovery of the Cohen Gene. There are other studies, but that one is by far the most well known.

And this is evidence of an exodus and conquest of Canaan?

"Recent excavations of Tel ed-Daba, located in the Nile delta area and referred to in the Bible as the land of Goshen (Genesis 45:10 and 47:27), have revealed it to be the ancient city of Avaris. An examination of the tombs in this area has produced the startling discovery that the people who populated the area were from Palestine and Syria. Rohl believes these were the children of Israel. Another interesting discovery is that the area has a much higher percentage of infant burials than what has been found at other ancient archeological sites. Rohl believes this is due to the Egyptian slaughter of the Israelite infant males at the time of the birth of Moses."

The only article I found on this was an article on a Christian site with no references on any of their claims.

 

[sandwiches]

Tell you what, you get 16 million evos to die because they want to say they know for sure there was a same state past, and I will give your stuff a second boo.

Argumentum ad populum. The amount of people who have died for any belief does not, in any, validate or invalidate it.

 

[Hespera]

And this is evidence of an exodus and conquest of Canaan?


The only article I found on this was an article on a Christian site with no references on any of their claims.

Well as Twain noted, for a fact, you need a great deal of evidence, and good, but for a miracle any sort of evidence at all will do.

 

[dad]

What in the world..? I mean, you were saying some weird stuff before, but now you want millions of people who accept evolution to die just to prove a point?

You know, If I had said this regarding Christians, i'd probably be banned from this site. Why should you be any different?

Nonsense, the point wasn't that anyone should die but that millions did die, to prove the gospel point. (martyrs) It has worth. The same state dreams don't.

Firstly, that's a big if.

Secondly, you are assuming that the right interpretation is out there.

Of what...spirits? Either they are or are not something different than physical beings.

The default option in all cases is to assume the least.

Then I guess you win since you have NOTHING!??

When you say that the laws operated differently in the past, you are assuming that there is another combination of laws in addition to the laws we KNOW work today.

The one that the records indicate was in place and science can't speak to, being ignorant.

So, you have the know laws (that are in effect now) and you are assuming another set of laws (that were in effect before).

I am not assuming a different set of laws.

Doesn't matter, you are assuming some set of laws for the UNKNOWN!

I HAVE SUPPORTED MY POSITION WITH THE FACT THAT THE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF RADIO DATING TECHNIQUES ARE IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH EACH OTHER.

There are fairy tales in agreement with each other. There are beliefs in agreement with each other. What matters is what is known, not how stabbing in the dark arrives at the same point in la la land!

 

[dad]

Argumentum ad populum. The amount of people who have died for any belief does not, in any, validate or invalidate it.

Of course it does. The Christians died to affirm Jesus was real, and they were witnesses. How many died to say a same state was real? Or Mohammed? Those that die for example (if I have this right) for muslim holy wars, do it to advance a cause, rather than affirn that the koran is real..no?

 

[Belk]

Nonsense, the point wasn't that anyone should die but that millions did die, to prove the gospel point. (martyrs) It has worth. The same state dreams don't.

So have the adherents of every religion. It speaks to the strength of their belief, not that their belief is correct.

 

[Belk]

Of course it does. The Christians died to affirm Jesus was real, and they were witnesses. How many died to say a same state was real? Or Mohammed? Those that die for example (if I have this right) for muslim holy wars, do it to advance a cause, rather than affirn that the koran is real..no?

Why does one get the feeling that Reason and Logic flinch every time you walk into the room?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why does one get the feeling that Reason and Logic flinch every time you walk into the room?

Because we carry our Bibles into the room with us, and reason and logic must subordinate themselves to It.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Because we carry our Bibles into the room with us, and reason and logic must subordinate themselves to It.

Reason and logic don't subordinate themselves to anyone's petty Idols.