Bible-Creation-Evolution (2)

[Belk]

Because we carry our Bibles into the room with us, and reason and logic must subordinate themselves to It.

It's cute how you keep trying to conflate the bible and your own ideas.

 

[Hespera]

It's cute how you keep trying to conflate the bible and your own ideas.

is that "conflagrate" you mean?

 

[TheReasoner]

Why does one get the feeling that Reason and Logic flinch every time you walk into the room?

More like jump through the window.

 

[sandwiches]

Because we carry our Bibles into the room with us, and reason and logic must subordinate themselves to It.

Is this an admission that the Bible is unreasonable and illogical?

 

[Hespera]

Is this an admission that the Bible is unreasonable and illogical?

Pretty much like me. My husband says I am unreasonable and illogical, but.... I'm always right!

 

[AV1611VET]

Is this an admission that the Bible is unreasonable and illogical?

In a sense, yes.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

 

[sandwiches]

Pretty much like me. My husband says I am unreasonable and illogical, but.... I'm always right!

That's just women in general. Maybe the god who inspired the Bible was a woman! ;P

 

[sandwiches]

In a sense, yes.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Anyone can say that. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, say I.

Nothing about being unreasonable or illogical.

Now, if God is illogical, how do we hope to comprehend his wishes? "Well we have the Bible for that!" And how do we know that God's illogical reasoning what we've interpreted is correct? "Well we have the Holy Spirit for that!" And how can we understand the illogical Holy Spirit?

At some point, God has to make sense to us to be able to relate, understand, and ultimately, do as we think he wants us to act. So, through whatever means (Bible, Holy Spirit, Jesus, whatever,) God cannot be illogical or unreasonable to us.

 

[AV1611VET]

Now, if God is illogical, how do we hope to comprehend his wishes?

Hmmm -- you'd think He would have to indwell us, wouldn't you?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Hmmm -- you'd think He would have to indwell us, wouldn't you?

Is this the same god who gives you free will, then predetermines who gets to live forever, and sends all the others to infinite torture if they don't 'choose' him?

Right then. Got it.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Hmmm -- you'd think He would have to indwell us, wouldn't you?

I would think a Christian would be humble enough to accept the possibility that they had not been chosen for such a singular honor.

of course, a self-promoting narcissist would assume or imply that being indwelt by God was a run-of-the-mill event for them.

 

[sandwiches]

Hmmm -- you'd think He would have to indwell us, wouldn't you?

So, let's see...

God's reasoning is illogical to normal humans
The Bible was inspired by God and is unreasonable and illogical
So, to understand it "properly," God must dwell within us...
But for him to do that, one must already belive he exists and asked him to posses us.

So, if we don't already believe in the Bible, it'd be unreasonable and illogical for a person to accept the Bible. Hmmm...

 

[AV1611VET]

Is this the same god who gives you free will, then predetermines who gets to live forever, and sends all the others to infinite torture if they don't 'choose' him?

nm

 

[dad]

So have the adherents of every religion. It speaks to the strength of their belief, not that their belief is correct.

Not what I was referring to then. I was talking about people that gave their lives to verify Jesus was real. Many of which knew Him, and touched Him and seen Him.

Looking at for example the muslim concept of martyrdom.. we see something else..

"
Muslims also believe that God grants the reward of istishhad (martyrdom) to those who die in a variety of ways, including death during childbirth,[4] accidents such as fires and drownings, and epidemic diseases such as the plague.
Regardless of how death occurred, Muslims believe that the reward of martyrdom is contingent upon proper belief, sincerity, perseverance and thankfulness to God. More importantly, Shahid or Shaheed means a struggle, whether internal for the betterment of one's self, or external, relating to the betterment of society.[5]"


Shahid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What has that got to do with dying to verify that Mohamed actually was here or etc?

 

[Belk]

Not what I was referring to then. I was talking about people that gave their lives to verify Jesus was real. Many of which knew Him, and touched Him and seen Him.

Looking at for example the muslim concept of martyrdom.. we see something else..

"
Muslims also believe that God grants the reward of istishhad (martyrdom) to those who die in a variety of ways, including death during childbirth,[4] accidents such as fires and drownings, and epidemic diseases such as the plague.
Regardless of how death occurred, Muslims believe that the reward of martyrdom is contingent upon proper belief, sincerity, perseverance and thankfulness to God. More importantly, Shahid or Shaheed means a struggle, whether internal for the betterment of one's self, or external, relating to the betterment of society.[5]"


Shahid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What has that got to do with dying to verify that Mohamed actually was here or etc?

How does someone dying prove Jesus was real?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

nm

ok

 

[Hespera]

That's just women in general. Maybe the god who inspired the Bible was a woman! ;P

Nah, I think god must be a cowboy at heart!

 

[dad]

How does someone dying prove Jesus was real?

Why is a death bed testimony worth more? Why is someone that is willing to die rather than deny what they know to be true to be believed more than some coward? The people that knew Jesus were witnesses and went out and told people what they saw. When they took a Christian to be killed in the arena, they often gave them a chance to recant, and deny the faith to spare their life. If all that was at stake was some fool notion like evolution, probably not a one would have died.

 

[Belk]

Why is a death bed testimony worth more? Why is someone that is willing to die rather than deny what they know to be true to be believed more than some coward? The people that knew Jesus were witnesses and went out and told people what they saw. When they took a Christian to be killed in the arena, they often gave them a chance to recant, and deny the faith to spare their life. If all that was at stake was some fool notion like evolution, probably not a one would have died.

I see. So all the sects that splintered off from the church over the years and where persecuted are correct? As apparently are the Heavens Gate folks.

 

[Tiberius]

Nonsense, the point wasn't that anyone should die but that millions did die, to prove the gospel point. (martyrs) It has worth. The same state dreams don't.

The "same past state" idea has EVIDENCE, which is something you';ve never been able to provide. Why don't you provide some specific evidence now?

Oh, and people die for mistaken beliefs all the time. When a Muslim suicide bomber kills himself, he's dying for what you consider a mistaken belief.

Of what...spirits? Either they are or are not something different than physical beings.

Ah, but are ghosts doomed to play out what they did during life? Or are they still able to make independant decisions? And are only people ghosts? Or can animals become ghosts too? And what about objects? There are many reports of ghostly apparitions of ships.

And why do they stay on earth? Are they unable to let go of life? Are they simply echoes of life? Or are they remaining behind to watch over those who are still alive?

There are many different interpretations of spiritual activity, Dad. it's not black and white.

Then I guess you win since you have NOTHING!??

I have something much more powerful than you'll ever have. I have evidence from reality.

Your position requires you to believe things with no evidence at all, and it also requires you to dismiss the evidence in reality.

The one that the records indicate was in place and science can't speak to, being ignorant.

And what records are those? How have you verified those records?

Doesn't matter, you are assuming some set of laws for the UNKNOWN!

And so are you.

The differnece is, I'm saying that there was a set of laws that we KNOW work. You can't even describe how the laws were different.

But, if you disagree, please tell me how the law of gravity was different back then.

There are fairy tales in agreement with each other. There are beliefs in agreement with each other. What matters is what is known, not how stabbing in the dark arrives at the same point in la la land!

And how did we find out the things we know today? By studying reality.