Bible-Creation-Evolution (2)

[dad]

Did you get that from a Chick Tract?

No. But so called knowledge that directly opposes God must have a source.

What, you want me to invent a time machine and go back in time do you?

That depends. Do you feel some need to claim stuff about it?

Nothing that you say regarding evolution has any merit or redeeming qualities to it.

Then it is well suited to address evolution.

The observable laws that govern the behaviour of the universe.

And yours?

You observe in this state. That is no way to get knowledge of another.

I'm not going to explain quantum mechanics to you. Do your own homework. I'm not your mum.

So why raise it as if you had a point? Be it known that you do not.

So you admit to being condescending then?

I do stoop to conquer at times.

A self fulfilling delusion is one where a crazy story is told, and any attempt to find flaw in it is explained in such a way that it is impossible to verify.

Ah, so you know about science. OK.

For example, you claim that the laws of the universe were different a long time ago, yet there is no evidence for this.

ALL evidence available points to this. None of which includes physical only state knowledge of modern so called science.

Evolution, on the other hand, has a ton of evidence. And you, with your self-fulfilling delusion, must try to explain why that evidence doesn't count.

In English?? What do you mean by evolution? Granny Bacteria, mother of all life? Or small changes observed in the present? Be clear. If you dare.

You are incapable of recognising logic. So how could you make any comment about proof?

All are incapable of recognizing what is not shown here yet.

You are the one in a fishbowl. You swim around with a reality planted by others, fed from an old book of stories, while on the other side of the glass is all reality that is forever separated from you.

OK. Try to sound clever. The thing is, I am not kidding. So called science really has limits.

*Gasp!!!* The creation didn't happen here? Butbut... This is EARTH! If the creation didn't happen on Earth, where did it happen? Mars, perhaps?

Here...as in ..this state.

 

[rjc34]

My girlfriend would say the same things about me.

Hell, even I'd say the same thing's about you!

I guess that makes you 'godly'!

 

[TheReasoner]

"We" evolved brains then, did we?

Was that a Freudian slip?

Don't TEs believe that God guided evolution?

Do you say "we drove to *insert destination*" even if you were not the one by the wheel with your feet on the pedals?
Yep. You do. Even if you're only along for the ride.

We did evolve brains of the current size and complexity. If you think that means it was a conscious effort on our part you haven't understood much. But I am yet to see any indication that you know what evolution is.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Go right ahead if you think you can;

I've been in the process of it for quite some time -- If I thought you were capable of getting over yourself long enough to learn, I'd ask you to participate.

but remember, you asked us to explain this stuff to you;

I have asked you for nothing, and you've delivered -- in spades.

AV, you contribute nothing of value to those interested in learning -- never have, except unintentionally.

People ask you questions to humor you, but mostly to amuse themselves. You give an asinine, self-serving answer, people laugh at you, you get off on the attention because you don't know/care any better.

That's just how it is. We're used to it; one would think you would be as well.

so if you think we're even remotely interested in your version, just wait until we ask for it -- okay?

The interesting 1611AV did ask for it -- your own opinion on the matter is insignificant.

Otherwise, we just might think your 'innocent' question was nothing more than a veiled lead-in to espouse your own doctrine.

we might think you're jealous, resentful, and afraid. We'd go into detail, but we find the matter too dull to discuss.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Do you say "we drove to *insert destination*" even if you were not the one by the wheel with your feet on the pedals?
Yep. You do. Even if you're only along for the ride.

We did evolve brains of the current size and complexity. If you think that means it was a conscious effort on our part you haven't understood much. But I am yet to see any indication that you know what evolution is.

Don't even bother to feed him anymore -- he's got nothing to offer except semantics.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I have just as much evidence as you have regarding the man.

You have wikipedia, too? How does it support your guess?

You should move on with some other thing because you got nothing here that I have not heard before.

Excellent! Then maybe you can provide answers! All the other "believers" I've ever talked to had nothing but bluff and bluster.

There simply is not enough solid historical fact about him to make any concrete agrument.

Just because you've got nothing doesn't mean I do too.

I've made my case -- make yours.

What else do you have?

You on the ropes, from the look of things.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What are the odds that the evolutionary process, proceeding by random changes, would produce human beings, plus millions of species of animals, birds, fish and insects, all with symmetrical features, i.e., one side being a mirror image of the other? We take symmetry in all these creatures for granted, but is that a reasonable outcome for a random process?

What are the odds of something happening after it's already happened?

Answer -- 1 in 1.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Man has been trying to scratch his own back for a long time, I wish evolution would give us our tales back.

Ask and ye shall receive:

humans with tails - Google Search

 

[Nathan Poe]

Kent has that right and I will not put any work into a post non deserving. Hence the Hovind quote. Funny we creationists are scalded when using our fellow believers work but you all can use all the Darwin you want.

Please don't tell me you actually consider Hovind to be honest?

I thought you were smarter than that.

One other thing that must be said. Anyone who believes or takes on ToE must take on evolution in its entirety. As Bible Believing Christians , we are asked to provide evidence from origin to end.

Because the Bible stretches from origin to end, and you claim the whole thing is literal and accurate. The ToE was only ever meant to explain one thing -- the diversity of life.

Don't blame us for the scope and scale of your beliefs -- take some responsibility for yourself.

ToE hide within a narrow compartmentalized study that dares not go to the origin of the theory.

If the theory is right (and nobody's found anything to show otherwise) does its origin matter?

Truth is truth, and fact is fact, regardless of the source.

You believe things evolve? Show us how it all started. Or show us something evolving right now that we can observe. ToE can do neither yet mocks Creation. As Hovind says, ToE is as much a religion as any other.

Hovind says a lot of things which sound good but are complete doubletalk.

As Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.

As far as strawmen. I dont say that. I say Thus Sayeth the Lord!

Can't even take responsibility for your own thoughts, can you? you open your mouth, the rest of us are supposed to believe God's talking?

Look, we get it -- you're scared. Your belief system which has provided so much security and comfort has been challenged, and you're taking up a defensive posture to preserve yourself. It's ok, really -- there's nothing to be afriad of; you've just been wrong about a few things which, once you start to think about it, don't even really matter in the big picture.

But really -- Hovind? Did you even bother to learn about ToE before running to him?

 

[TheReasoner]

Kent has that right and I will not put any work into a post non deserving. Hence the Hovind quote. Funny we creationists are scalded when using our fellow believers work but you all can use all the Darwin you want.

Kent Hovind is a fraud. His degree is a joke - not just because it's from a diploma mill, but also because of the "quality" of his work. Just read his thesis, it's available on-line. Furthermore any man whose chief arguments are derisive and personal attacks on other people deserve nothing but contempt. In addition to being an academic fraud mr. Hovind is a convicted felon. And you support him?

He's a glib man, but not a trustworthy one. He stands to profit from fooling you, and he has. Not enough apparently as he needed so much more money he decided to steal from the american people. For which he is in jail at this time. SHould have locked him up for fraud long before that. I take fraudulent degrees very seriously indeed.

As far as strawmen. I dont say that. I say Thus Sayeth the Lord!

Then I think you're taking the Lord's name in vain, using it to defend a position which is of your own making. A fiction.
A simple question can be asked: Does your interpretation match God's creation?
The answer is that no, it doesn't.
The question then becomes: Does God lie and deceive His loved ones?
Answer: No, He does not
Question: Can any human interpretation be taken as infallible?
A: No.
Q: Are there interpretations with solid theological backing which DO fit God's creation
A: Yes.
Q: Is elevating a human trait or a human position to that of God's sinful?
A: Yes. It is.
Q: Given the above, why do you insist your position is infallible and indeed God's own? And how is this - your position - not highly sinful, bordering on claiming God's position for your own?

 

[AV1611VET]

Kent Hovind is a fraud.

Big deal -- I'm considered a fraud, and so was Jesus.

That word, coming from you guys, means nothing.

ETA: I take that back; I'll give it the weight of a grain of salt.

 

[TheReasoner]

Big deal -- I'm considered a fraud, and so was Jesus.

That word, coming from you guys, means nothing.

ETA: I take that back; I'll give it the weight of a grain of salt.

Kent Hovind is Considered a fraud? Have you read his thesis? I seriously wouldn't turn it in as a paper in high school. And not because of what he's promoting - I was a creationist back then - but because of quality! As for his "university"... Take a look:

And why do you think he's in prison? For exercising his right to free speech? No! Tax fraud. Severe tax fraud. He's a THIEF!
And you believe him.

You just lost another smidgeon of credibility there mister. Sure I can understand your wanting to find people supporting your position, but shouldn't you find someone to support who has a real degree from a real university and not just some random guy with a printer? Oh, and not to mention someone who hasn't used his religious authority to grab as much money as possible for himself and stealing from the nation and the people to top it off?

I'm really disappointed. I thought you had enough integrity to dismiss that fraudulent 'man'*.


*Yeah, I said 'man'. I don't think a male member of the species who lies and abuses his authority and charisma for personal profit like that a man. I consider him unworthy of that title or any honorific. Had it been a 'woman' doing so I would not have called her a woman either.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Big deal -- I'm considered a fraud, and so was Jesus.

Actually, AV -- most of the people who know you (at least around here) consider you sad and insecure who needs to do self-aggrandizing acts (such as, forexample, comparing yourself to Jesus whenever possible) in order to convince yourself that you have any worth.

Not to say that I'm one of these people, mind you, but if you've ever said or done anything of value that advances the human condition even in the slightest, I've yet to see it.

But we're not here to talk about you -- we actually had an interesting topic on the table.

 

[AV1611VET]

He's a THIEF!
And you believe him.

I do?

As of this writing, Nathan Poe, for example, has 29,774 posts.

Would it be appropriate to say that he believes Micky Mouse is his favorite cartoon?

 

[Nathan Poe]

I do?

As of this writing, Nathan Poe, for example, has 29,774 posts.

You are fascinated with me, aren't you, AV?

Would it be appropriate to say that he believes Micky Mouse is his favorite cartoon?

Have I ever said anything to espouse his "teachings" or philosophy?

Unlike you with Mr. Hovind, I have not.

 

[Nathan Poe]

(The topic is Bible-Creation-Evolution, after all...)

1611AV has responded to my Biblical analysis by claiming that he's heard every single one of my claims before, and wishes to dismiss them in toto without so much as a discussion.


For the record, Mr. 1611AV -- consider your bluff called.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are fascinated with me, aren't you, AV?

Not really, I'm just tired of your whining whenever I use my post count; so I have decided to start using yours.

Have I ever said anything to espouse his "teachings" or philosophy?

I don't know -- have you?

Unlike you with Mr. Hovind, I have not.

-- Oh, my.

11

As I was saying, Nathan Poe has 29,778 posts ...

For the record, Mr. Nathan Poe -- consider your bluff called.

 

[Nathan Poe]

-- Oh, my.

11

As I was saying, Nathan Poe has 29,778 posts ...

For the record, Mr. Nathan Poe -- consider your bluff called.

You're not bluffing, AV -- you're just seriously addicted to the attention -- positive or negative -- you receive.

And your words mean nothing when compared to your actions.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you consider truth to be irrelevant (it can even "take a hike") as opposed to making yourself sound clever.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you are incapable of taking a response from someone else and not twisting it to suit your self-aggrandizing agenda.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you've created a little fantasy world for yourself, and crowned yourself King.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you can take a hike.

Run along and play, AV -- don't distract the people discussing the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

You're not bluffing, AV -- you're just seriously addicted to the attention -- positive or negative -- you receive.

And your words mean nothing when compared to your actions.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you consider truth to be irrelevant (it can even "take a hike") as opposed to making yourself sound clever.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you are incapable of taking a response from someone else and not twisting it to suit your self-aggrandizing agenda.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you've created a little fantasy world for yourself, and crowned yourself King.

Just like Mr. Hovind -- you can take a hike.

Run along and play, AV -- don't distract the people discussing the Bible.

You are fascinated with Mr. Hovind and me, aren't you, Nathan?

 

[rjc34]

You are fascinated with Mr. Hovind and me, aren't you, Nathan?

And you must be fascinated with bleeding threads until everyone just up and leaves because they're sick of you.

Sit down and read the discussion at hand or just leave.