Bible-Creation-Evolution (2)

[Hespera]

Hm. I'm not American you know, English is not my first language. I make mistakes, but surely that's hardly unexpected? I'm close to fluent in English, Spanish, Swedish and Danish while I am fluent in Norwegian and quite passable in New-Norwegian, even academically.

But surely a few mistakes are tolerable?

Nothing like an anti intellectual would-be spelling nazi, is there?

You and I both use English better than the majority of Americans do.

 

[dad]

Because I believe that God founded this nation for two main reasons:

1. To give the Jews a safe place to stay while they were displaced from their homeland. (Our Bill of Rights, for example, insures no pogrom will legally occur on U.S. soil.)
2. To assist the Jews after they return to their homeland, as prophesied in the Scriptures.

The book of Revelation is all about the Jews, not the Christians -- that's why the Church is never mentioned once from chapters 6-19; so after the Rapture, the Jews are basically at the mercy of the Antichrist.

Interesting perspective. I agree that the tribulation will involve the Jews (as well as untold multitudes of new Christians). But why would the US no longer be here at that time (minus the Christians)?

I have never thought of the whole US history as being mainly protecting Jews from the rest of the world. Neither have I really thought of it as being founded by God..any more than the next country...

I wonder if anyone thinks that it is a nation under God today!

 

[AV1611VET]

Interesting perspective. I agree that the tribulation will involve the Jews (as well as untold multitudes of new Christians). But why would the US no longer be here at that time (minus the Christians)?

I have never thought of the whole US history as being mainly protecting Jews from the rest of the world. Neither have I really thought of it as being founded by God..any more than the next country...

I wonder if anyone thinks that it is a nation under God today!

Here is an excellent book on this subject:

I had the pleasure of conversing with Dr. Grady in person.

 

[TheReasoner]

Here is an excellent book on this subject:

I had the pleasure of conversing with Dr. Grady in person.

I'm guessing it's sociodarwinian in it's acceptance even promotion of capitalism, and I suppose it mentions science more than it does atrocities on an international scale, such as the funding of terrorist groups and the training of secret police forces in torture techniques?

I hope I'm wrong, but I do not think I am. Funny how many in the American christian right seem to think it's a greater affront to God to accept evolution and big bang than it is to oppress the poor.

And no, I am not a socialist. I just think it's a bad idea to train a despot's secret police forces in torture techniques, helping would-be despots become real despots and the like. Which the US has done. No, it's not alone in that. Many or probably most powerful nations have done so. But that does not make it right.

Not saying much about capitalism either, just that I am not entirely sure why an ideology which promotes competition and a focus on personal profit and materialistic consumption is considered 'christian'. It seems strange to me :/

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm guessing it's sociodarwinian in it's acceptance even promotion of capitalism, and I suppose it mentions science more than it does atrocities on an international scale, such as the funding of terrorist groups and the training of secret police forces in torture techniques?

Are you talking about the U.S., or are you talking about the reports of [England's] John Lennon funding the I.R.A. with proceeds from All You Need is Love?

Or both or neither?

 

[TheReasoner]

Are you talking about the U.S., or are you talking about the reports of [England's] John Lennon funding the IRA with proceeds from All You Need is Love?

I was not aware of John Lennon. If that's the case, both. Funding of violence isn't something I consider 'christian'.

 

[AV1611VET]

I was not aware of John Lennon. If that's the case, both. Funding of violence isn't something I consider 'christian'.

And let me repeat myself -- the U.S. Bill of Rights insures no pogrom will legally occur on U.S. soil.

 

[TheReasoner]

And let me repeat myself -- the U.S. Bill of Rights insures no pogrom will legally occur on U.S. soil.

Well, it has happened. Wounded Knee, 1890. Not sure if that was before or after the bill of rights though. Besides, there's US soil and there's foreign soil. And the US has meddled all over the world. Again, just like Britain, France, China, and others. Sometimes that has been good, like in WW2, but far from always. I think certain actions which has been done by any of the aforementioned nations is utterly incompatible with any claim to Christianity as a national religion.

Again though, not just the US. Goodness, my own country is the world's largest munitions exporter per capita. And we're giving out the peace prize. Hypocritical? Oh yeah.

Note: I do not intend this as an attack on the US. I want to make that very clear. I intend it to create a contrast, to emphasize an ethical question for our creationist friends: Is the acceptance of a scientific theory more important, or the financial and military (covert or visible) support of despots and tyrants? The reason I bring it up is indeed to rattle cages and I have intended this to clarify what I consider a serious discrepancy in what I have seen from creationists in the US particularly: At times it seems many employ a focus which almost exclusively focuses on how vile big bang is, but offer not a word about despotic regimes and social injustice. I have personally experienced some who support such regimes while rejecting science. Not that all creationists do so at all. I am, in other words providing a sensitive topic as an example to what I consider a serious ethical discrepancy and loss of focus. In other words: Why so much focus on how terrible evolution is when not only has it given us antibiotics, detergents, better yeast, insulin and more, but this focus on ToE appears to come at the expense of focus on things such as the Iran/Contra scandal, or the training of Pinochet's goons?

So... Have I rattled cages? I expect so. But please do be reassured, I am not anti-american. At all. I like the country, it's an ally, and as a veteran I can proudly say I was glad to be the ally of the US. You have very skilled soldiers whom I would not mind fighting beside in a peace-keeping mission!

 

[Hespera]

here is another great one from the "christian right".

In it I found out that the plan for me and my husband would be to hang us from lamposts. me for being an alien asian atheist, him for polluting aryan blood.

But im sure its all worthy and good, to establish a christian theocracy.
the book has sold a lot of copies.

 

[TheReasoner]

here is another great one from the "christian right".

In it I found out that the plan for me and my husband would be to hang us from lamposts. me for being an alien asian atheist, him for polluting aryan blood.

But im sure its all worthy and good, to establish a christian theocracy.
the book has sold a lot of copies.

If it comes to that, please do know you're welcome to come as refugees. We'd happily house any who came as such.

I think a couple of posters in the political subforum recently cited this as a reliable and ethically sound source. Rather scary.

 

[AV1611VET]

If it comes to that, please do know you're welcome to come as refugees. We'd happily house any who came as such.

I don't think she has to worry about The Turner Diaries.

After all, we're too busy hunting witches that [some of] you guys told us to go out and find.

 

[Hespera]

If it comes to that, please do know you're welcome to come as refugees. We'd happily house any who came as such.

I think a couple of posters in the political subforum recently cited this as a reliable and ethically sound source. Rather scary.

Thanks for the offer, but i dont think it will come to that.

I do think tho there is a huge danger in the cultural weakness of a country too heavily weighted with the ignorant and anti intellectual. There are SO MANY smart dedicated people in Asia who will have no sentimental feelings at all about overwhelming this little minority of fat and sassy ignoramuses.

I dont intend to be a refugee anyway. Someone wants to make a go at it, Im very physically fit, and Im a good shot.

 

[AV1611VET]

I dont intend to be a refugee anyway. Someone wants to make a go at it, Im very physically fit, and Im a good shot.

Forget the bullets.

There are better ways to take recruiters for academia out; like shooting you in the wallet by tripling your tuition.

 

[TheReasoner]

I don't think she has to worry about The Turner Diaries.

I hope not. I do expect people like you'd stand up to protect the minorities targeted by such hatred anyway. I may disagree with you on science related issues, but from what I know you appear to be what Norwegians call "solid wood" when it comes to issues like this.

I hope I am right in that assertion as it is formed on very little information, but... Well, you haven't given me reason to think otherwise. I think.

After all, we're too busy hunting witches that [some of] you guys told us to go out and find.

What witches would that be?

 

[TheReasoner]

Forget the bullets.

There are better ways to take recruiters for academia out; like shooting you in the wallet by tripling your tuition.

Way to create a plutonomy with a collapsing economy!

I suppose it was a joke?

 

[AV1611VET]

I hope not. I do expect people like you'd stand up to protect the minorities targeted by such hatred anyway.

You betcha!

Starting with the unborn!

What witches would that be?

It's a long story, but I have my own theory as to [one of] the reasons 9/11 and Aum Shinri Kyo (sp.?) went down.

 

[AV1611VET]

Way to create a plutonomy with a collapsing economy!

I suppose it was a joke?

Nope

 

[TheReasoner]

Nope

Ah, yes. I know about that. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot.

You're not advocating the US follow suit I hope?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah, yes. I know about that. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot.

You're not advocating the US follow suit I hope?

No, sir, I'm not -- but don't try and lay a guilt trip on us for not being as intellectually equivalent as another nation, when your own government is making [or trying to make] it three times harder to get that education.

(And, of course, I'm not talking about you.)

 

[Hespera]

I hope not. I do expect people like you'd stand up to protect the minorities targeted by such hatred anyway. I may disagree with you on science related issues, but from what I know you appear to be what Norwegians call "solid wood" when it comes to issues like this.

I hope I am right in that assertion as it is formed on very little information, but... Well, you haven't given me reason to think otherwise. I think.

What witches would that be?

Im not worried about "the Turner Diaries".

I did tho have someone tell me he prays daily for 'Word" from 'god" that he is to start shooting people like me.

A person prays long and earnestly enough for anything he will eventually think he got word.

The witches referenced is one of his long left hooks that he connects to his own chin now and then.