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Bibical Texts: to be or not to be

His_disciple3

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All translations are imperfect by the mere fact of the matter that they are translations. But just to give an example or two ...

1 Cor 11:29 in the KJV reads For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

Clearly the word krima should be translated "judgment" as it is elsewhere (even in the KJV) translated.

Romans 7:6 in the KJV reads But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

All Greek texts show the word apothnesko (to die) modifying "we", not "the Law." The law is not dead, but rather we are dead to the Law.

To be fair, all translations have errors to one extent or another. None of them accurately translate John 15:2, which quotes Jesus thusly: "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away ; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit."
They all say "takes away" even though the Greek word is airo, which means "to elevate, lift up, raise, take up from the ground." This is consistent with His example of the vinedresser. The vinedresser is responsible for keeping the branches of the vine healthy, clean, and fruit bearing. It is easy to see why Jesus used the analogy, but it is a shame none of our modern translations seem to click on what He actually said.

None of this in any way takes from the veracity of the Bible. By comparing the thousands of Greek manuscripts we can be assured that the integrity of the original Greek autographs is preserved in the mainstream versions we have today, and it appears to me that the major paraphrases are consistent as well. Having the different versions provides an excellent foundation for the believer to live in Christlikeness and be a good witness for Christ.

excuse me before I address you, speaking evil of the 400 year old Authorized english Bible. are you the same person that just posted :

Originally Posted by WinBySurrender
Of all the possible divisive, polarizing discussions that can take place, the "KJV Only" or "Not KJV Only" argument is the worst. Unless it is "Once Saved, Always Saved" or not, or the tongues debate, or any one of a myriad divisive and polarizing discussions. People are convinced they are right and nothing will convince them otherwise. So why don't we all just agree to disagree about things that are not salvation oriented and vow to be Christlike? Or is that too hard to do?

God bless
 
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WinBySurrender

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excuse me before I address you, speaking evil of the 400 year old Authorized english Bible. are you the same person that just posted :
I you choose to see my efforts at being equitable as being divisive, Iu attack me, I can't help that. And again, you attack me instead of discussing the accuracy and efficacy of my post. When you can discuss only the merits of my statements without impugning me, my denomination or my education, perhaps I will continue the discussion.
 
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His_disciple3

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I you choose to see my efforts at being equitable as being divisive, Iu attack me, I can't help that. And again, you attack me instead of discussing the accuracy and efficacy of my post. When you can discuss only the merits of my statements without impugning me, my denomination or my education, perhaps I will continue the discussion.

so you post a thread and say we should agree to disagree then proceed with a future thread to speak evil of the 400 year old english Bible. not only do you do this but you offend me and the Epiphoskei, by saying:

Of all the possible divisive, polarizing discussions that can take place, the "KJV Only" or "Not KJV Only" argument is the worst.

and now I am the bad guy because I question a Hypocritical post that you have posted, instead of addressing your lies against the Holy Word of God? Go figure!!
 
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WinBySurrender

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so you post a thread and say we should agree to disagree then proceed with a future thread to speak evil of the 400 year old english Bible. not only do you do this but you offend me and the Epiphoskei, by saying:



and now I am the bad guy because I question a Hypocrite about their post instead of addressing his lies against the Holy Word of God? Go figure!!
dust off.jpgI really need to learn ...
 
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WinBySurrender

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so you post a thread and say we should agree to disagree then proceed with a future thread to speak evil of the 400 year old english Bible. not only do you do this but you offend me and the Epiphoskei, by saying:



and now I am the bad guy because I question a Hypocrite about their post instead of addressing his lies against the Holy Word of God? Go figure!!
View attachment 125866 <-- click to enlarge

:( I really need to learn ...
 
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His_disciple3

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All translations are imperfect by the mere fact of the matter that they are translations. But just to give an example or two ...

1 Cor 11:29 in the KJV reads For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord&#8217;s body.

Clearly the word krima should be translated "judgment" as it is elsewhere (even in the KJV) translated.

Romans 7:6 in the KJV reads But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

All Greek texts show the word apothnesko (to die) modifying "we", not "the Law." The law is not dead, but rather we are dead to the Law.

To be fair, all translations have errors to one extent or another. None of them accurately translate John 15:2, which quotes Jesus thusly: "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away ; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit."
They all say "takes away" even though the Greek word is airo, which means "to elevate, lift up, raise, take up from the ground." This is consistent with His example of the vinedresser. The vinedresser is responsible for keeping the branches of the vine healthy, clean, and fruit bearing. It is easy to see why Jesus used the analogy, but it is a shame none of our modern translations seem to click on what He actually said.

None of this in any way takes from the veracity of the Bible. By comparing the thousands of Greek manuscripts we can be assured that the integrity of the original Greek autographs is preserved in the mainstream versions we have today, and it appears to me that the major paraphrases are consistent as well. Having the different versions provides an excellent foundation for the believer to live in Christlikeness and be a good witness for Christ.
ok before I address your mistakes concerning your understanding of some scriptures you have taken from the KJB, the Authorized English Bible, let me say this. I am simply amazed that people who claim to know the English language more than the Translators of the KJB. always limits words to one defintion. this whole post started because Epiphoskie said that the greek word "ean" could only mean "If" so when The KJB translators used "when" He shall appear, instead of "IF" He shall appear In 1 JOhn 3:2 they commited a grave error in their translations. however upon looking to my strong concordances "ean' can mean "when" or "IF'. another fellow said the The KJB people had made a grave mistakes when that said that a turtle was a bird, however upon my turning to the 1828 Webster Dictionary, we find that a turtle can be a bird!!! NOw you as well have limited the words you pointed out as mistakes to one definition, shame on you, REALLY!! I will show to whom it may concern how you have Lied:

1 Cor 11:29 in the KJV reads For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord&#8217;s body.

Clearly the word krima should be translated "judgment" as it is elsewhere (even in the KJV) translated.


NT:2917
<START GREEK>kri/ma
<END GREEK> krima (kree'-mah); from NT:2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against ["crime"]):

KJV - avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, go to law, judgment.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

wow! look everyone krima has more than one defintion. wait there's more


Romans 7:6 in the KJV reads But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

All Greek texts show the word apothnesko (to die) modifying "we", not "the Law." The law is not dead, but rather we are dead to the Law

I think you simply misread this statement or either you have twisted it on purpose. "but now we are delivered, being dead" implying us being dead and not the law! . this is explained by the statement after the comma. "that being dead where we were held" who was dead? we were dead! not the law!! nice try though, NOT !


To be fair, all translations have errors to one extent or another. None of them accurately translate John 15:2, which quotes Jesus thusly: "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away ; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit."
They all say "takes away" even though the Greek word is airo, which means "to elevate, lift up, raise, take up from the ground." This is consistent with His example of the vinedresser. The vinedresser is responsible for keeping the branches of the vine healthy, clean, and fruit bearing. It is easy to see why Jesus used the analogy, but it is a shame none of our modern translations seem to click on what He actually said.

I found it amazing here that you have lifted yourself above all translators (ever). we could be seeing a pride issue here, again you limit english words to one definition. a deck can be on a boat, however it can be on a house also, wow we can even have a mowing deck on a riding lawn mower. just a little english lesson here, to help you, I can clearly see how an english Bible could be hrad for you to understand, seeing you don't understand that is english words can mean more than one thing. however this Greek word "airo" can have more than one meaning even in greek,

NT:142
<START GREEK>ai&rw
<END GREEK> airo (ah'-ee-ro); a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism [compare OT:5375] to expiate sin:

KJV - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


hate to break it to you but all the translators could be right and you could be wrong here. actually we can see within the text itself that it is you, that is wrong, if it bears not fruit He casts away, and the one that bears fruit, He cleanses so that it can bear more fruit. I am not going to grade this even as a nice try,
 
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WinBySurrender

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I am simply amazed that people who claim to know the English language more than the Translators of the KJB. always limits words to one defintion.
Don't complain to me, complain to Strong's. Or perhaps you don't take it as authoritative on matters of the Koine Greek. Doh! :doh:Of course you don't! What was I thinking?
this whole post started because Epiphoskie said that the greek word "ean" could only mean "If" ...
He's right. The Greek word for "when" is epan (translliterated)
when The KJB translators used "when" He shall appear, instead of "IF" He shall appear In 1 JOhn 3:2 they commited a grave error in their translations. however upon looking to my strong concordances "ean' can mean "when" or "IF'.
You have a different Strong's than I do. Mine doesn't say that.
another fellow said the The KJB people had made a grave mistakes when that said that a turtle was a bird, however upon my turning to the 1828 Webster Dictionary, we find that a turtle can be a bird!!!
1., you need to provide proof of that one, and 2., if it does indeed say that, the simple explanation is Noah Webster, being a devote Reformer, couldn't bear to list a definition in conflict with the Bible
NOw you as well have limited the words you pointed out as mistakes to one definition, shame on you, REALLY!! I will show to whom it may concern how you have Lied:
NT:2917
<START GREEK>kri/ma
<END GREEK> krima (kree'-mah); from NT:2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against ["crime"]):
I'm not going to post the rest of your "proof" because all I need to say is 1., Strong's does not use "damnation" in the definition of krima and, 2., you are defending a verse that condemns believers -- which as you should well know is impossible and in conflict with the nature of God. Is the text really so important to you that you would pervert the character of God?

I've had enough. This is nonsense and my responses are in conflict with my desire to bring harmony and peace among believers here. Everyone please forgive me for perpetuating a stupid, divisive and totally waste-of-effort discussion. Abide in your "belief" if you must. God bless.
 
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His_disciple3

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Don't complain to me, complain to Strong's. Or perhaps you don't take it as authoritative on matters of the Koine Greek. Doh! :doh:Of course you don't! What was I thinking? He's right. The Greek word for "when" is epan (translliterated)You have a different Strong's than I do. Mine doesn't say that.1., you need to provide proof of that one, and 2., if it does indeed say that, the simple explanation is Noah Webster, being a devote Reformer, couldn't bear to list a definition in conflict with the BibleI'm not going to post the rest of your "proof" because all I need to say is 1., Strong's does not use "damnation" in the definition of krima and, 2., you are defending a verse that condemns believers -- which as you should well know is impossible and in conflict with the nature of God. Is the text really so important to you that you would pervert the character of God?

I've had enough. This is nonsense and my responses are in conflict with my desire to bring harmony and peace among believers here. Everyone please forgive me for perpetuating a stupid, divisive and totally waste-of-effort discussion. Abide in your "belief" if you must. God bless.

your misunstanding of scriptures does not make the KJB wrong it makes you wrong! 1 cor.11 in using damnation, does not comdemn the believer, as I posted in the communion post, it says if one drinks unworthily. Who is worthy to partake of the Lord's Supper? Only one who has called upon the Name of the Lord, only those who has trusted in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, so if Jesus is the determining factor, of who is worthy then only those without Jesus would be eating and drinking unworthily. doesn't condemn a saved person, it is telling a lost person that this stuff could kill you, man! let me show you where you have made that verse say another false doctrine, if you feel by doing something that you have made yourself worthy to partake of the Lord's Supper, then you have said That works are what make us worthy, it is by Grace through faith that we are saved , not that of works, under your understanding of this scripture, everyone that partakes would be saying look at me I AM WORTHY!! No the Lord's Supper was intended to humble the believer not boast them up.
Really dude even attack old man Webster!! come on !
here is another false assumption you have made in your understanding of this verse, Paul knew that not everyone sitting in church was saved, He even knew that there was some false/pretending christians in Church, see you and alot others assume that because Paul was addressing the church that he was addressing only saved people. WRONG! so what you are making that verse say, is that simply because someone is in Church then they are saved. REALLY NOW!! now you ought to know better than that!!
 
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His_disciple3

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Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913 + 1828)

ARTFL > Webster's Dictionary > Searching for turtle:
Displaying 1 result(s) from the 1828 edition:

TUR''TLE, n. [L. turtur.]
1. A fowl of the genus Columba; called also the turtle dove, and turtle pigeon. It is a wild species, frequenting the thickest parts of the woods, and its note is plaintive and tender.
2. The name sometimes given to the common tortoise.
3. The name given to the large sea-tortoise.
 
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