Bibical or not

[SkyWriting]

As for the OP, if someone wants to claim that God has a purpose for every pregnancy, he would probably need to address why about one fifth or more of pregnancies end in miscarriage. What was God's purpose for those?

Perhaps 50% or more of fertilized eggs fail to reach birth.

 

[SkyWriting]

That was addressed to Jeremiah and not just to every person born, unless every person born, is ordained as a prophet to the nations.

There are other passages that support a universal truth when considered together.

Psalms 22
10: “Upon thee was I cast from my birth, and since my mother bore me thou hast been my God. Be not far from me, trouble is near and there is none to help.”

Psalm 139:13,15: For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst knit me together in my mother’s womb. . . . [M]y frame was not hidden from thee, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.

Galatians 1
15: “But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace.”

Jeremiah 1
5: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

 

[disciple Clint]

Hhmm. By that logic, do you think IVF babies have souls?

yes they do. They are individuals with a soul, not at all like a clone. Please understand I am speaking for myself here, I have not researched this from a Theological perspective yet.

 

[disciple Clint]

Perhaps 50% or more of fertilized eggs fail to reach birth.

we cannot begin to understand why God acts. See the book of Job

 

[disciple Clint]

But God already knows those choices you will make before you are born.

I am not going to say that you are wrong but there are other Theological views that exist and I would agree with one of those that is not what you have indicated.

 

[disciple Clint]

In what way is a twin not like a clone? They are genetically identical, which is the definition of a clone.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...identical-twins-are-not-genetically-identical

 

[Paidiske]

Clones would also accumulate mutations over their lifetime, though.

I just really don't understand; if two humans have (or start with) the same DNA, why would we conclude thereby that they have no soul? It's a very strange position.

 

[disciple Clint]

Clones would also accumulate mutations over their lifetime, though.

I just really don't understand; if two humans have (or start with) the same DNA, why would we conclude thereby that they have no soul? It's a very strange position.

my thought would be that the soul is not part of DNA. it is spiritual it is given to each person by God not by science. Man cannot create a soul. The soul is transcendent.

 

[Paidiske]

my thought would be that the soul is not part of DNA. it is spiritual it is given to each person by God not by science. Man cannot create a soul. The soul is transcendent.

Yes, but... okay. Imagine that an embryo is created in a Petri dish (as happens for IVF). Imagine that before that embryo is implanted, it is deliberately split into two, to create twins (clones). If both of those two embryos are implanted and grow to maturity... you think neither will have a soul?

 

[SkyWriting]

yes they do. They are individuals with a soul, not at all like a clone. Please understand I am speaking for myself here, I have not researched this from a Theological perspective yet.

Clones are never identical. But they are pretty similar.
Every cell division has some changes due to chemistry
and external conditions.

 

[Sammy-San]

my thought would be that the soul is not part of DNA. it is spiritual it is given to each person by God not by science. Man cannot create a soul. The soul is transcendent.

so clones are zombies?

 

[Sammy-San]

Man creates a clone but only God creates a soul. So my conclusion is that the clone would not have a soul.

a clone would be a zombie.

 

[Sammy-San]

Yes, but... okay. Imagine that an embryo is created in a Petri dish (as happens for IVF). Imagine that before that embryo is implanted, it is deliberately split into two, to create twins (clones). If both of those two embryos are implanted and grow to maturity... you think neither will have a soul?

So science can create an infinite amount of souls

 

[Sammy-San]

Hhmm. By that logic, do you think IVF babies have souls?

So science creates a soul?

 

[Sammy-San]

In what way is a twin not like a clone? They are genetically identical, which is the definition of a clone.

You think God could create an infinite amount of people?

 

[Paidiske]

You think God could create an infinite amount of people?

I am not aware of any fundamental constraint on the number of people God could create.

As to the discussions of souls, I probably can't debate that fully here.

 

[Sammy-San]

I am not aware of any fundamental constraint on the number of people God could create.

As to the discussions of souls, I probably can't debate that fully here.

Each person has their own mind, soul, and will.