Beware of wrong teaching

[marke]

Christians. Your soul is at risk. Joel Hunter is the new President of the "Christian Coalition" and he said he hopes to make the Christian Coalition "more of a grass-roots organization so that we can mobilize every Christian in America to have a political involvement as a part of their normal spiritual growth." This is really deadly wrong teaching according to New Testament scripture and a good reason to ask yourself if the "Christian Right" are leading their followers to Heaven or hell. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to discern right from wrong and warns time and time again not to follow blindly. There is a scriptural problem with Christians standing for or against issues of the world in that the dead don’t concern themselves with issues of the world. It’s a matter of self preservation. Correct New Testament scripture says Christians should be dead to the world allowing God to be in control. Yet the accumulators (how you know them), these ministers of misinformation whose unsubstantiated doctrine blows with the wind encourage their followers to do these very things; the very things that Jesus warns will destroy your soul. Example. The parable of the seeds, Matthew 13:22 and repeated again in Luke 8:14, shows the ministers of misinformation are deadly wrong: involvement with the world causes you to lose your salvation. These ministers of error say you can’t lose your salvation and encourage you to vote their way, condemn those they don’t like, seek riches (just like them) and involve yourself in issues of the world. In this parable, Jesus shows this to be flat out wrong teaching. Deadly to your soul even. Read the scripture yourself. Jesus says get out of the world, the "Christian Right" says get more involved. Who are you going to follow?

 

[Gimpy]

I believe you may be very correct. For instance, this government of ours has ongoing normal relations with China, and some trade with Viet Nam and the Muslim nations. In China and in Viet Nam and some of the Muslim nations are many, many Christian martyrs. They are imprisoned, starved and tortured, and even executed or just plain murdered. Does our wonderful right or left wing partys do anything about it? NO. It is never even a subject of discussion.

 

[mont974x4]

So what is it you are suggesting?

Don't vote? Don't serve in the military or any other service?

IMO, that is wrong. No where do we see soldiers told to get out of the military after thier conversion. Being good citizens and voting, IMO, is something we should do.

I fyou are going to vote, I do strongly encourage people to really study the issues and the candidates....with the understanding that nothing is perfect here.


Also, IMO, you have taken the parable of the seeds out of context. I beleive it is clearly talking about the Gospel.


One of the dangers of your line of thinking is that people can, will, and do apply it to evangelism and ministry. They say things like, "God is in control, so I don't need to do anything. He will save who He wants, when He wants. etc." I hope we agree that this thinking is wrong, but people still do it.


Back to politics....how would you fit the passages of being salt and light into this context?

I don't like most of the policies of Dem's or Repub's (which is why I am Libertarian) but I don't think a complete disengaging is the right way to handle the situation.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

In the political realm do we simply turn a blind eye to the worldly, or do we when given the opportunity, intervene and use our judgement to descern good from evil and do what is in our ability to stand against wickedness?
Let's look....

Genesis 1:26-28
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

God has given Dominion of this earth to mankind, and has instructed us to subdue it. That means to bring it under our authority and control.
Remember, Adam and his descendents are called the children of God.
That is who has the authorization from God to excercise dominion over this earth.
The sons of darkness, the wicked ones, have ussurped this authority and have convinced many that this world belongs to them.
It does not!

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The sons of Adam have "godlike" knowlegde and understanding of Good and Evil, and the ability to descern and exercise judgements based upon that knowledge.

Psalm 82
A Psalm of Asaph.
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty;
he judgeth among the gods.
How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Defend the poor and fatherless:
do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy:
rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

God asks us, his children, "How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked?"
How long will we stand by and do nothing even though we posess both the descernment, and the authority as the "gods" of our dominion, to intervene, take back control, and do what we know to be right?

God says that He is standing in the congregation of the mighty (His Church, The Body of Christ). And that He is present among us "the gods of our dominion" as judgements are passed. But we are judging unjustly, we are accepting these wicked persons.....God asks, How long will we continue to do this?
When we as a congregation make it our choice to do nothing, then God will do nothing.....we have dominion, it is for us to subdue, to bring under our control....not God. Yes, God can do it, but that is not God's Will.
God will work with us and through us, but not for us.
God is not our servant, We are His servants, We do the tasks with God's assistance and Authority from Him.
God is simply waiting for us to step up so that He can work His way through us. We are the Body, We are the Arms, The Legs, The Hands, The Feet, with which to carry out His Works.

John 10:34-37
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Luke 20:36
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Romans 8: 14-17
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Ask yourself.....who did the Word of God come to?
Have you recieved The Word into your life?
Can Scripture be broken?
Are Christians said to be called the children of God?
Are you a part of the Congregation of the Mighty?
Then I ask you...
How long will you continue to judge unjustly?
How long will you continue to accept wicked politicians with ungodly and evil agendas as your leaders?
Arise and Defend the poor and fatherless:
Arise and do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Arise and Deliver the poor and needy:
Arise and Remove them out of the hand of the wicked.
Our Worldly Political Leaders, they know not, neither will they understand for they walk in darkness:
Are not the foundations of the earth out of course?
Is there not disorder and inequity in our Government Policies, both domestic and international?
"We The People...."
"Government Of The People, By The People, and For The People"
Do we not possess the authority and the moral necessity to hold our leadership accountable?
What they do, they do in our name, under our sanction, supported by our vote.
"Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
Stand in One, United Voice, and VOTE.....
Descern and pass judgement upon that which is wicked.

 

[prophecystudent]

I do not understand the OP purpose. If it is to convince us that Christians have no business getting involved in the governments under which we live, then I disagree.

I have found nothing in the bible, or in teachings, that indicates we are to withdraw from our civic duties.

We MUST get involved in every proper way to see that our elected officials are ones that support our views on things like religion, moral behavior, ethics, etc.

To blindly sit by and wait for God to do it for us is to ignore a basic tenet from scripture.

GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES.

Fred

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I disagree with the OP. I think that we need to be actively involved in our communities and that includes voting.

I do not think that Jesus would want us to turn our backs on the unborn children, poor or elderly (any one in society) that are directly effected by the laws of our land. If we do not vote and have a voice on such issues, we are turning our backs on them.

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Sorry - Double Post

 

[marke]

Hello friends:

I see a lot of opinions and thoughts, but no New Testament scripture to back up your opinions and thoughts.

Where do any of you see Jesus or anyone telling you to strive for office or involve yourself in issues of the world? Please show me.

My Bible tells me God controls everything (PSM 139) and Jesus tells us not a sparrow falls without His leave so what business is it of yours to judge whether gays should marry or not? Are you without sin that you can afford to suffer, only in spades, the same condemnation you are dishing out? Correct New Testament teaching says we can judge those within the body, but God is the judge of those without the body. All you are doing is harming yourself (rom 2:1) by being involved in this issue.

When did God become such a whimp that His creation Man can overrule His will? It didn't happen. Whom ever is to win will win and may His will be done.

Anyway friends, I would be interested to see what you can come up with to support your thoughts and opinions that you should involve yourselves with issues of the world.

Let me just say that I agree with you that we should be involved with our community. Just not in a leadership level because those that strive for a leadership position often have to compromise their values to appease everyone. We are servants and that is a good place to be. Just imagine if the churches tithed back 10% to their community. So much good would be done everyone would flock to Jesus, but sadly jet fuel is more important to the accumulators.

Friends, if you go to a horse race you can enjoy a really good race, but as soon as you place a bet you are no longer an observer, but a participant and now your enjoyment is dependant upon the outcome. Same with involving yourself in issues of the world you are warned time and time again not to do it.

Fred, you say "To blindly sit by and wait for God to do it for us is to ignore a basic tenet from scripture.

"GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES".

I'm sorry sir, but I've never seen that basic tenet from scripture. With all due respect, I think you are quoting a fairy tail as a basic tenet. I would like to be corrected if you can point out the scripture where you found this basic tenet.

God Bless.

 

[marke]

One last thing Fred, you write "I have found nothing in the bible, or in teachings, that indicates we are to withdraw from our civic duties."

I have to ask, where exactly does it say in the New Testament you are to involve yourself in civic duties?

Thanks. I'll look for your reply. God Bless.

 

[mont974x4]

Marke, were the centurians told to leave the military? Were tax collectors told to find new jobs?


Consider this, how are we to be light in the area of politics? I would suggest that God will raise the right man at the right time with the right tools to accomplish His will. That would also require the man to be willing to answer that call.


I certainly agree that he must be on guard at all times.

Perhaps this is one reason why we are told to pray for our leaders?


Does God have to use men? Nope, but we see Him do so time and time again for various missions and minsitries.

 

[marke]

Mont944x4:

Your write "So what is it you are suggesting?

Don't vote? Don't serve in the military or any other service?"

Yes, I am saying don't vote, but I am not saying don't serve your country. You can serve in many ways, just don't put yourself in a position where you will have to kill someone. Pastor, grave digger, cook are all honorable professions where you can serve without destroying your soul by killing another.

You say "IMO, that is wrong. No where do we see soldiers told to get out of the military after their conversion."

Yes you are correct, but you are told time and time again not to kill. A soldier is not a good profession for a Christian any more than a porn star profession. There are just some professions a Christian should not involve themselves with and a job killing or torturing someone is one of those jobs to avoid.

Further, you say "No where do we see soldiers told to get out of the military". Where exactly do you see scripture encouraging Christians to join the military?

Traditions of man can't save your soul. Jesus envisioned one body and yet today there are so many calling themselves Christians the only was to discern truth from fairy tales is to study the New Testament.

If you can't find it in scripture, then you are following traditions of man.

God Bless.

 

[mont974x4]

If we look at the word kill it is as an individual. That is murder and that is wrong.


There is nothing against a nation waging war or against a Christian serving in that capacity.


There is nothing that says a Christian can't join the military and nothing commanding us to do so. That tells us that it is a personal choice between the man and God. The important thing is that he be fully convinced and that he doesn't force his personal choice as a belief on others.

 

[Starcrystal]

the Christian Coalition has had some pretty radical agendas in the past. Bordering on dangerous. I don't know where they stand today as I have been out of touch. (I was once a supporter and voted for Pat Robertson in 88 by the way).

Christians should be very careful when getting involved in politics. And honest. Sometimes I see those who claim to be Christian have made false promises or have implemented legislation that cannot possibly be Christian: for example - Clinton claimed Christianity but supported abortion and gay marraige. Yeah, right.
Both major parties are guilty of this.
If someone's going to be a Christian and in leadership possitions within government than at least be honest. And don't take away constitutional freedoms in the process.

 

[mont974x4]

Arustus, from Romans 16:23 is another example of a beleiever in gov't service. Depending on the translation is he called a city planner or a director of public works. I have not studied it out to see what that meant in the historical context.

I recently found this in my daily reading.

 

[RonnyRulz]

We do need to be aware of wrong teachings. Especially since some teachers are ignorant themselves and just teach ignorance or evil.

If we were more aware, there wouldn't be controversy about war, killing, capital punishment, harry potter, the Holy Spirit, politics, or any of the hundreds of controversies that exist today.

 

[SteelDisciple]

Christians. Your soul is at risk. Joel Hunter is the new President of the "Christian Coalition" and he said he hopes to make the Christian Coalition "more of a grass-roots organization so that we can mobilize every Christian in America to have a political involvement as a part of their normal spiritual growth." This is really deadly wrong teaching according to New Testament scripture and a good reason to ask yourself if the "Christian Right" are leading their followers to Heaven or hell. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to discern right from wrong and warns time and time again not to follow blindly. There is a scriptural problem with Christians standing for or against issues of the world in that the dead don’t concern themselves with issues of the world. It’s a matter of self preservation. Correct New Testament scripture says Christians should be dead to the world allowing God to be in control. Yet the accumulators (how you know them), these ministers of misinformation whose unsubstantiated doctrine blows with the wind encourage their followers to do these very things; the very things that Jesus warns will destroy your soul. Example. The parable of the seeds, Matthew 13:22 and repeated again in Luke 8:14, shows the ministers of misinformation are deadly wrong: involvement with the world causes you to lose your salvation. These ministers of error say you can’t lose your salvation and encourage you to vote their way, condemn those they don’t like, seek riches (just like them) and involve yourself in issues of the world. In this parable, Jesus shows this to be flat out wrong teaching. Deadly to your soul even. Read the scripture yourself. Jesus says get out of the world, the "Christian Right" says get more involved. Who are you going to follow?

Speaking of wrong teachings...maybe you should close your mouth. The Bible doesn't say we are to be seperated from the world. We can be involved in the world, just not IN IT. Not married to it. Not having our heart in it.

 

[RonnyRulz]

Speaking of wrong teachings...maybe you should close your mouth

Gentleness! Gentleness!

 

[jad123]

Speaking of wrong teachings...maybe you should close your mouth. The Bible doesn't say we are to be seperated from the world. We can be involved in the world, just not IN IT. Not married to it. Not having our heart in it.

 

[jad123]

Christians. Your soul is at risk. Joel Hunter is the new President of the "Christian Coalition" and he said he hopes to make the Christian Coalition "more of a grass-roots organization so that we can mobilize every Christian in America to have a political involvement as a part of their normal spiritual growth." This is really deadly wrong teaching according to New Testament scripture and a good reason to ask yourself if the "Christian Right" are leading their followers to Heaven or hell. Jesus gives us clear guidelines on how to discern right from wrong and warns time and time again not to follow blindly. There is a scriptural problem with Christians standing for or against issues of the world in that the dead don’t concern themselves with issues of the world. It’s a matter of self preservation. Correct New Testament scripture says Christians should be dead to the world allowing God to be in control. Yet the accumulators (how you know them), these ministers of misinformation whose unsubstantiated doctrine blows with the wind encourage their followers to do these very things; the very things that Jesus warns will destroy your soul. Example. The parable of the seeds, Matthew 13:22 and repeated again in Luke 8:14, shows the ministers of misinformation are deadly wrong: involvement with the world causes you to lose your salvation. These ministers of error say you can’t lose your salvation and encourage you to vote their way, condemn those they don’t like, seek riches (just like them) and involve yourself in issues of the world. In this parable, Jesus shows this to be flat out wrong teaching. Deadly to your soul even. Read the scripture yourself. Jesus says get out of the world, the "Christian Right" says get more involved. Who are you going to follow?

Scripture reveals many things and turning our backs on our civic duties is not one of them. Scripture does not tell us the governement and military are horrible, in fact it is the opposite.

When asked by Roman legionnaires about how to conduct their lives John the Baptist tells them to be content with their wages among other things (Luke 3:14). Jesus is truly inspired by the faith of the centurion and holds it up as the best example in all of Israel (Luke 7:9). Paul suggests that members of Caesar's Praetorian Guard had converted (Philippians 4:22). And Romans tells us the government authorities have been instituted by God, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God."

 

[Sketcher]

Yes, I am saying don't vote, but I am not saying don't serve your country. You can serve in many ways, just don't put yourself in a position where you will have to kill someone. Pastor, grave digger, cook are all honorable professions where you can serve without destroying your soul by killing another.

Voting isn't killing.

Further, you say "No where do we see soldiers told to get out of the military". Where exactly do you see scripture encouraging Christians to join the military?

One last thing Fred, you write "I have found nothing in the bible, or in teachings, that indicates we are to withdraw from our civic duties."

I have to ask, where exactly does it say in the New Testament you are to involve yourself in civic duties?

Instead of circular logic, why don't you just take the Romans 14 approach. If Scripture is silent on a matter, then saying something equivalent to "thou shalt not vote" is putting your opinion - a teaching of MAN - up there with God's commands. If Scripture doesn't call it sin, you don't have the right to anathemize those that do it.